Summicron vs Summilux? + Should I buy the kit?

Hi all,

 

Well, I'm about to plunge into the Leica world and I have a few questions. I

am considering buying new the M7 + 50mm Summicron as a kit.

 

My first question:

How does the 50mm Summicron compare to the Summilux ASPH? Is it worth

purchasing instead the M7 + Summilux, which amounts to approx. $3000 more, or

should I go for the kit and perhaps buy a second lens, a 35mm. This is a BIG,

BIG investment for me so any advice appreciated.

 

Does anyone have any photos to post or links comparing the 2 lenses? I have

seen a couple of posts of the Summilux on the M8 and the quality is stunning.

 

Second question:

I have been offered an M7 body in pretty good condition for $1000 less than

new. Is it worth taking this option and using the extra money towards a lens

or is the warranty of a new body purchase more worthwhile?

 

Third question:

I will be buying the M7 with .72 magnification as I am only planning on a 35

and 50mm lens at this stage. Is this magnification ok for these lenses, even

though I wear glasses? Does either the Summilux or Summicron versions of the

35mm and 50mm lenses obstruct the viewfinder in any way?

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

Cheers.

Both Summicron and Summilux are exceptional lenses. I preferred the Summicron as the

extra stop doesn't generally buy much in my work, and it is smaller/lighter by some. That

said, I'd prefer the Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH over the 50mm: I found I used the

35mm lens a LOT more than the 50.

 

If you can find a good M7 body at a substantial discount, why not buy that instead of the

new one? Money is money ... unless it's been badly abused, it will take the same pictures. I

owned Leica RF cameras for thirty years and only once bought a new body. Never had any

problems with any of them, other than the two old II series bodies I bought for $99 (with

lenses ...!) which needed shutter curtains about 5-8 years after I got them. (Yes, it was a

long time ago ... 1969. ;-) I always preferred to buy lenses new when I could afford to as

lenses are more susceptible to being damaged through improper care and handling.

 

0.72x magnification always worked just fine for my glasses equipped eyes with 35mm and

50mm lenses. It's 28mm where I can't see the frame lines, so for wider lenses I used an

auxiliary finder.

 

Godfrey

Get the used M7, a late 50mm SummiCRON, and a pre-ASPH 35mm Summicron. You'll never regret it (as long as there is some kind of money back arrangement if the M7 turns out to have problems)!

I purchased the 35mm 1.4 Asph rather than the 50 Summicron or 50 Summilux Asph to go with my M7. Lens is as sharp as either 50mm and better for me wide angle. I have 50 Summicron and 50 Elmar M and never use either. -Dick

I suggest a reality check: before buying Leica gear, take a look at the Zeiss Ikon plus the 35/2 Biogon and 50/2 Planar. It will cost you a half of the second hand M7 with 50 and 35 summicrons, and the overall photographic experience is better, especially for a glass wearer. Then, just to dispense yourself with the Leica myth, take a look at the Leica equivalent and compare features and cost.

Marek's suggestion is a very good one.

keep in mind that you should always buy Leica gear used. of course someone has to buy it new to begin with, but that doesn't have to be you. A 3-year warranty that you get with a new Leica is pretty irrelevant considering that the life of the camera is 30 years. Same with the lenses.

 

Of course, the M7 not being a pure mechanical camera may not last that long -- although it might -- the electronic Contax/Yashica cameras i have are more than 20 years old and doing just fine.

 

The lenses of course with front element protected by filter will last forever.

 

so if you want to get a certain lens because of its "signature" and properties, say, an ASPH rather than pre-ASPH or the other way around or whatever, pick the lens you want, and buy it used. you'll save 50% or more off of the new price right away, and, what, in the next 30 years you'll spend a few hundred now and then maintaining it.

I useed an M6 O,72 viewfinder for years, wearing specs, then I tried an M6 0,58 viewfinder and bought one immediately: for a 35mm lens (and,to a lesser extend a 50) it's so much easier when you wear specs, also you can frame with a 28mm which is almost impossible with standard mag 0,72 viewfinder. Forget about tele lenses though. The summicron is excellent , old summilux were good in center weak on the side at full aperture. I am unconvinced by the M7 and woudl prefer the M6, the shutter is so reliable!

Be a MAN: M2 or M4 plus old 50 Summicron or 35 Summicron & "Sunny 16" for exposures. Just buy 400 ASA/ISO consistantly & you'll be comfortable guessing aperture/speed in no time! And you will be a REAL: Leica photographerr IMHO!!

The biggest bang for the buck is a used M6 Classic. You will save alot of money buying this camera over the M7. Question: do you really need aperture priority exposure, if not , buy a used M6 Classic from Keh or another reputable dealer or from photonet classifieds. You will save over a 1000.00 buy not buying a USED M7. May favorite lens on a Leica M is a 35mm cron. That first lens I used exclusively for the first 2 years I shot a Leica M. 2nd lens was a 50 lux( 2nd version pre-ash). It is very nice to have 1 fast lens in a kit. I bought the lux for interior lighting shots without flash. You should be able to buy high quality M6 classic, 35mm cron and 2nd ver 50 lux (both used lens+ pre-asph)for around $3000.00 Further, I don't think you will see a differnence in quality between the ASPH lens and pre-ash lens, or alternativly like the difference if seen. All of this equipment is extremely high quality. Save your money, get a M6 Clasic and the 2 lens as described. IMHO

Just checked the classifieds and Norman Shafer,10/8/07, has a M6 Classis, 35 cron, 28mm elmarit, and 90 tele-elmarit for 3000.00 exactly. This is a DEAL! I don't know the guy. However, you could easily trade the 28mm elmarit for a 50 lux pre ash. Check it out! This deal won't last long.

harry,

 

1. buy second hand as mentioned

and

2. buy the 35 or 50 'lux now. and ask questions later

I've also contemplated Harry's dilemma.

 

The only problem with buying used Leica lenses for the non-Leicaphiles is being bamboozled by all those serial no's in choosing the right equipment used?

 

Which Summicron in the 35mm and 50mm do you buy if used, based on serial no's? Which ones are the lemons?

 

Furthermore, how do you know if the M7 is the newer version with better viewfinder if buying used? There are so many versions of the M6 so how do you identify the M6 classic, as recommended above.

 

...sorry to steal your post Harry but you may also need to know these things....

m6 classic has the small shutter speed dial, not bigger one like TTL models. the camera is a bit smaller, too.

 

frankly M6 classic IS perfect, because it has a light meter, but no bells and whistles.

 

and lemons? i doubt that ANY Leica 35mm or 50mm Summicron would be considered a lemon, by anyone. you're simply not going to go wrong. forget versions and serial numbers. just get one at a good price.

I really don't mean this in a rude way, but I can't help but think that if you're asking such basic questions, perhaps you're in way over your head and shouldn't be spending so much money on camera gear - unless of course you have so much money it doesn't really matter. Really, sorry for the bluntness.

This buffoon has quite a selection:

 

http://www.photo.net/gc/view-one?classified_ad_id=695407

You are asking questions, and of course that is good. Don't rush this process. IMO you are many months of research away from making any kind of informed decision on a purchase of this magnitude.

I'll answer the third question first: 0.72 mag is great for 35mm and 50mm, although if you wear glasses you might also consider 0.58 for those two focal lengths. Also, some older versions of 35mm lux and crons with rounded hoods attached will definitely obstruct the lower right corner of the viewfinder; and I am guessing that it would be the same for 50mm with rounded hood versions. (But take off the hood and you should be ok.)

 

As for whether to buy this or that...? I feel that Frank does have a point. Since you are not sure whether you need the extra stop of the lux or not, maybe it's good that you stick with the M7 starter's kit, as that remains the cheapest way to go M brand new. Later you can modify your kit according to your needs that arises.

I'm a dedicated Leica guy, but given that you're still learning about what feels right for you, I do like the suggestion of getting a clean used Zeiss Ikon. Your images will be just as good, you will have more money for a 35/50 lens combo or more film, and you will learn why people value the rangefinder experience compared to the SLR experience. If you get the M7, though, I would also recommend the .58 VF since you wear glasses. One of the reasons for using a rangefinder is seeing OUTSIDE the frame, and that's hard to do with a .72 VF and a 35mm frame when wearing glasses.

Not many comments to your question "Does either the Summilux or Summicron versions

of the 35mm and 50mm lenses obstruct the viewfinder in any way?"

 

The reason for the non-comment is that in real life this is not an issue, but the answer is

YES.

 

I can only speak for Crons, and only for the latest versions. With lenses set to close

distance more is obstructed than when set at medium distance or infinity. For the 35 mm

the square lens hood obstructs more than the round "vented" one.

 

35 mm lens set to 10ft/3m does not obstuct at all with the lens hood off.

50 mm lens set to 10ft/3m does not obstuct at all with the lens hood pulled out i.e. "on".

how about getting a used m3 / m4 / m4-2 and then get some of the older / used lenses -- you can get your whole kit for much less. .. if you want new gear and have never shot rangefinders, get a $20 yashica gsn or a minolta himatic 7... or if you're pretty confident about rangefinders, start with a bessa or a bgn m3 from keh (now you're in the $500 range rather than the $50 range) find some good lenses - elmarit for your 90, summarit for your 50, and get a summaron for starting your 35... if you don't like it, you can always get your money out of it... also, look at some of the nikon / canon glass in ltm with the ltm / m adapter --- the cosina / voightlander glass is great as well

Harry, if you want a Leica get a Leica. The alternative is to do what I did -- mess about with other brands and then end up with what you wanted in the first place. Fact is that none of the other cameras I've owned really comes close for my purposes, although I haven't tried the ZI or the Hexar RF. As far as the viewfinder goes, I also wear glasses and find the TTL 0.58 finder is excellent for lenses up to 50mm. If you want a 28mm, by the way, the Voigtlander 28mm f3.5 is very sharp at all apertures, a joy to use and doesn't obstruct the finder at all. The 0.72 finder will be fine for 35mm and over but not for 28mm.

Thanks to everyone for your comments...so many considerations for such a huge financial investment. After my initial post, I've realised I cannot afford a new Summilux lens plus a new body.

 

I am considering the M7+50mm Summicron kit or a Zeiss Ikon + 50mm f/1.5 C Sonnar T and perhaps a second lens, the 35mm f/2 Biogon T.

 

So two final questions if I may:

 

1. I read in a post on this forum that the Zeiss rangefinder is bright and ideal for glass wearers (better than the M7?) but often fades and hard to see at certain angles/ certain light. Is there any truth to this?

 

2. How do the Zeiss lenses compare to the Summicrons?

 

FWIW, my experience with rangefinders is via the Xpan..I loved the quality and build of this camera and lenses but sold it as I did not like the pano format in a rangefinder.

 

...so Zeiss Ikon + lenses or M7+summicron? Which is the best option?

 

Thanks again.

Harry,

 

Zeiss lenses are excellent and a bargain compared to Leica. Even better bargains are the VC lenses - although in general their finish is not up to the quality of the Zeiss or Leica. The Sonnar you mention though, you should know, is not a match in pure performance terms when compared to the 50 'lux ASPH (or the Summicron). The idea of this lens really is to recreate the classic original Sonnar look so famous from the glorious Contax era, but with modern coatings. If you want this look (not too unlike the original 50 Summilux) then all well and good, but if not then you may want to look at the Planar or Summicron or Summilux ASPH.

I've only had my second-hand M6 & 50 cron for just over a month. I feel like I've been using it for years, IMHO it's the best 35mm camera around. So why waste money on getting an M7?