b&w and release

hey all thanks for all the help i have two questions one how do you make a

color photo b&w in photoshop 7 two how do you get a homeless person sign a

release form most ive met cant be reasoned with anyway but i would like to

sell the prints artistic any advice thanks in advance

No release is needed to sell art prints. Its only commercial use. And google black and white conversion or search this site as it's been very well covered. You'll find some amazing answers and opinions (it can be as simple as selecting image/mode/greyscale or using control or apple U and desaturating, or using the channel mixer).

"how do you get a homeless person sign a release form most ive met cant be reasoned

with anyway but i would like to sell the prints artistic any advice thanks in advance"

 

Where do you live Antonio? I'd like to come in to your home, photograph you and your

family, get you all to sign model release forms, and then use the images for whatever

purpose I see fit.

boris cumanso

 

was there sarcasm in your remark? if not i fail to see the reason for that statement please explain

 

if so then im not sure where it comes from have you ever spoke to a homeless person most are not to worried about the photo part its the whole signature on paper. now with that said i was asking a legitimate question as ive seen many people take photos of people in many different ways and im looking to go in that direction. futher more i live in alabama and ill gladly tell you where! and you can take till your hearts content, and sell them all you want however if you think it will be free sorry your mistaken im smart enough to ask for royalties and i never said i didnt offer it to my subject. so simply leave me a contact e-mail address and ill contact you for a meeting if i am mistaken my apologies but either way thanks for the answer

I think Boris' point was that taking pictures of people who are homeless and probably mentally ill is exploitative. And I agree. Not that it should matter to you---it's your choice.

 

It's considered to be a tired subject, and if you have nothing unique to offer you'll probably receive a lot of criticism for doing it.

I'm not sure what Boris' issue is either.

 

As stated before, in the U.S. you don't need to secure a release for images shot in public places in most situations. But, that doesn't mean you can't be sued none-the-less if there is an agressive attorney around.

 

I just read an article on Doisneau that he was sued twice for "Le baiser." It has become much more restrictive in France, the birthplace of documentary photography.

 

I fear it may come to that here in the U.S. also.

"boris cumanso...have you ever spoke to a homeless person"

 

Yes I have.

 

"most are not to worried about the photo part its the whole signature on paper"

 

In my experience there's a whole range of attitudes and personalities amongst people who

live on the streets - just as with those who happen to live in homes. You said in your

original post that "most ive met cant be reasoned with", which implies that at the very least

it's somehow unreasonable not to sign a model release form for you - it isn't, it's perfectly

rational. Leaving aside the

fact that you don't need a release to sell prints, the very fact that you imagine some kind

of entitlement to the cooperation of those you'd like to photograph goes a long way

towards explaining why you're having problems in "reasoning" with your subjects.

 

"im smart enough to ask for royalties and i never said i didnt offer it to my subject"

 

Payment isn't the key to getting compliance, behaving with respect and dignity is.

thanks for the reply guys maybe i spoke harsh im new and i didnt understand the remark if its taboo its ok it was a idea and if it played out subject matter thats ok to i didnt say mentally ill simply street people homeless may be the wrong word not to offend anyone but if we dont ask we cant learn from all the forum info so i just was taken back a little thanks for the info it was helpful and if i took your statement boris agian im very sorry

boris you are right there are many attitudes and personalities .

("unreasonable not to sign a model release form for you") no not at all they owe me nothing and as for cooperation when i ask to take the photo the responce was shure for $5 so thats fine with me but when i asked him to sign a release he said no but when i was leaving pushed for the money no pic taken but still wouldnt sign so thats not cooperation either. but and payment is very much the key when its asked for. ("behaving with respect and dignity") i asked first and would have gave the money i dont see any disrespect so i guess i misunderstood you statement the info is very helpful and i do respect your opinion thanks for the help i didnt know to sell prints i didnt need a release that would have been great to know

might i suggest antonio that a little punctuationis nice and might help others really understand your posts and respond more appropriately they do have puctuation in alabama i know this becasue i was there once with kindest regards your buddy brian

Sorry for the punctuationis, I was typing very fast and didnt pay very much attention. And yes (lol) we all have learning heir

thanks Your friend Antonio

B&W photos of homeless people has been done so often it's just a cliche now. If you want to be a photographer, try a little originality.

 

You only need a model release if you want to photography not for documentary (been done before but hey, at least your motives are pure). If it's for commercial gain you do need a release, and what, you're going to photograph these people, make some money and give it to a homeless shelter?

<i>"B&W photos of homeless people has been done so often it's just a cliche now. If you want to be a photographer, try a little originality."</i>

<p>

Try sepia toning them, for example. Wrinkled skin looks great in sepia.

You will find a really long discussion about shooting homeless people here in Photonet...

 

It's a risky argument to say that you're trying to find a way for having homeless people signing you a model release...

 

Choices may be personal, but this look too harsh to me, I doubt this will help them in any way.. and you're planning to sell the prints, right??

look thanks for all the comments. Its very clear i have stepped on some toes and with no disrespect it really blows me away! i dont see the difference in me taking photos of a street person, or a journalist taking photos of homeless people in another country.im sure the photographers money isnt helping them either maybe i went about this wrong i simply wanted to take some photos of somthing i thought was very interesting and needed some advise on being able to sell the prints. maybe a forum is not the way to go but i have seen alot of people shoot this subject matter. as for being played out there have been millions of ocean photos but every now and then someone captures a different feel so played out is not my problem i thought being respectful would be to ask them first maybe i was wrong in my wording however i think with the brains it took to blast me, someone might know what i ment. i have met some great people here on this forum and some not so nice but with all im greatful for all comments

Seems to me that antonio approached his subject, something that isn't done by many photographers. As for photography of street people being a bit overdone, I agree, with the addition that I see many street people that would be fascinating to take pictures of, with the character that shows on their faces and manner of dress. And that I would want to do in a studio, to control the light and composition. Why jump on Antonio so hard, when after further reading of his posts, it seems that he has done more than many people here have done in the past. He approached his subject, something that many of us here don't do.....

I have met many homeless people in my work and they are a very diverse group. Mentally challenged to very intelligent. My thought is if you want to photograph someone then ask their permission. If they give it then you are in good shape and can proceed with your picture. If they are mentally challenged in some manner then just leave them alone. But everyone is different and I just think it's ok to be respectful and professional in your photography goals.

I am not much help with color to B/W in photoshop. One way is just to desaturate the picture but that is one of the worst ways I have heard. There is a free download from Picassa 2 and it has a number of options. Also if you go to "Luminous Landscape" I am sure you can find a tutorial on the subject. Even though I use photoshop a lot I have never explored that area because I shoot B/W film since I have a 120 format camera. I love Neopan 400 not that it matters.

Antonio, maybe there's a connection between the problems you're having here and the

problems you're having "reasoning" with people on the streets. Your initial question/

comment: "how do you get a homeless person sign a release form most ive met cant be

reasoned with" seemed weirdly simplistic and insensitive to me. You can have great visual

sense, but if it's coupled with the personal sensitivity of a Scud missile then you're always

going to have difficulties with certain subjects.

insensitive, personal sensitivity of a Scud missile

 

boris i have said several times i may have worded my post wrong and have even given you a personal "im sorry" if i have came across insensitive. i get the feeling this has become an attack from you not a informative reply i feel that i have done all i can to make this right. to be classed as a scud missile is clearly a judgment call on your part.i feel if i had intruded without permission on this persons space then you would have the right to judge me as a scud missle. when we post we are opened up for neg.comments,but this is not the way i would treat you. there are betters ways to tell someone they made a mistake in wording and actions than this. most people have been very nice to me even when they desagree. i hope you are the exception to the rule and maybe this misunderstanding will pass and we can be friends if not well thats a shame you sound very educated. and i would be proud to have a friend with such knowledge thanks for the reply all good and bad

Antonio, the above was meant to clarify why I was uncomfortable with your initial post.

Unlike others, I have no problem with a photographer choosing a subject that might be

considered cliched - look hard enough and you'll find that anything can be considered a

cliche. I also don't believe that any subject should be considered taboo. All photography

relating to other human beings is intrinsically voyeuristic, and, therefore, potentially

exploitative. It doesn't follow that we should stop because of this, but it does make sense

(even if just from a selfish perspective) that we should consider the impact of our

approach.

boris

 

thanks for the information

Antonio, just because a particular subject has been done a million times does not mean you should not do it too. Millions have photographed the Grand Canyon but do you think that will stop me from doing it too? Of course not.

 

As for the homeless photos, go do it. So what? Big lick! Tell the guy you'll give him a cut if he agrees...it could better his life, even a little. But if the guy says to F off, then respect him and don't do it.

 

The analogy about someone coming into your house to photograph you and your family is apples and oranges...it does not apply. If he wants his analogy to apply they he would say "how about if I come to your door, knock on in and ask you if it would be okay if I photograph you and your family, and if you say no then okay good bye".

 

But of course he mis represented what you were doing with the bum on the street. Funny how things get all twisted in order to make a particular point.

 

Talk to the bum, make a deal that is good for him too...if he don't want to play wish you well, give him some change anyways and move on.

Shooting in France is more restrictive because Johnny Depp moved there. It's called socio-economic status. See he's rich and he can have anything he wants even if that includes having laws passed so no one can photograph him and or his little spawns of Satan. I mean come on! Shoot Johnny Depp! Is he that special or something?