(NYC) Newbie help - Need processing @ contacts or scans, advice on which requested

Hi there - I've been scanning the forums but still not quite sure of a course of action. I'm

dipping my feet into "real" photography and for my first foray I got a Yashica T4 and

headed to southeast asia. I have what I expect to be some truly remarkable shots of rural

vietnam and cambodia sitting in undeveloped rolls and wondering what to do next. It's

about 20 rolls, about half 27exp and half 36exp. On the advice of the guys who sold me

the camera at Willoughbys I shot mostly on Centuria 400, though a fair amount is Fuji

Superia 400 and I took a stab at some night shots in Hong Kong on Fuji 1600 and some

bright light stuff on Fuji 200.

SOOO... now what to do with all these rolls. I shot like a madman and I expect that much

of these will be garbage or very close duplicates. I'd like to drop them off for processing

tomorrow and I'm trying to figure out what to ask for. Eventually I'd like to have archives of

the entire shoot, contact sheets would be find for that, and blow-ups of the really good

stuff, maybe 75-100 8x10s, depending on what I have to work with. I'll also want good

scans for a website I'm putting together. But the first order of business is to see what I

have to work with.

Here are the two main options that come to mind --

One would be to get developing w/contact sheets, then have the same guys make

moderately high quality (like 1200dpi) scans of those contact sheets, the whole sheet. I

have a top-end mac with monitor and photoshop and image calibration (I do graphic

design by trade) so then I could use the scans both to figure out what prints are going to

be worth working with, and to quickly make up a website and/or share the shots I want to.

I could also use the scans to make dummys for cropping or color correction requests, etc,

if I wanted custom work done.

Option two would be the normal one, to just go ahead and get 4x6 prints and basically be

done. Then I can scan myself (laboriously) what I need for web, and pick what I need for

enlargements. Problem there is that I have to do a TON of scanning, and probably 60% of

those prints are going to be trash anyways.

Not sure which of the two options is more expensive, I expect they're not that different.

SO - the question. What would you do, or what do you usually do? I imagine it's a common

thing to want, come back from extensive field shooting with tons of rolls and figure out

what the next step is to get the good stuff blown up and get shots out on the web in a

hurry. I don't have a home darkroom so it's all going to be cash and carry no matter how I

work it.

The other question is if anyone recommends a place in NYC that would be best suited for

either or both of these plans. The Willoughbys guys were very helpful and claimed to have

a pro-lab in the basement, anyone used them? For a non-pro like me am I going to the

right kind of service at duggel or equivalent or are they just going to feed 'em into a

machine just like the drug store guys? Any third option to think about?

THANKS in advance, seriously, and as I've asked about 30 questions there any small or

partial tips will be highly, highly appreciated. Hope to hear from you.

Best, N

If I were you I'd take the film to duggal and have them process every fifth roll and check that everything looks OK. If everything looks good ( reasonable exposure etc ) have every other roll of the balance processed , then the other half. If there is something funky that shows up in the first batch ask the counter guys for advice. You did number the rolls right?

I used to do this all the time at duggal with E6 except I always did clip tests.

Hmmm.... that's not a bad idea, hadn't thought of that at all. Though to be honest chances

are I'm gonna end up developing everything no matter what, and it would be hard to tell

from one roll, as they're all from drastically different countries, once I ran out of my film

stash I bought some extras in veitnam, cambodia, etc, and ever more scary some of them

were x-rayed a couple times (try asking for a hand inspectionin Phnon Penh, see what

happens... i tell ya). So they could be all over the map, hard to say one roll would be

representative.

I think at this point I'm going to get contact sheets, and then order the 8x10s of the ones I

think might be good. Since it was all shot on the fly point and shoot there's just inevitably

going to be lots and lots of garbage on the rolls. Out of about 500 shots I expect to be

lucky to get 75 good ones, maybe. And a small color drift is going to be not much to

worry about in relation to composition, shooting from moving boats, that kind of thing. I'll

get a loupe, what the hell.

That project I can take my time, the other big, and pressing, project is to get these suckers

on the web. The more I think about it prints are just a waste of paper and energy. I'm

narrowing this down to to questions for y'all assembled experts:

So I'm gonna go D+D for developing, to start with. Now, If I want to get a sense of what I

have to work with I think I want to see the colors on photo paper, not just on a screen, for

future printing, so I need prints or contact sheets. And I need scans just hi-res enough for

web in the interim, what's the best cost/benefit ratio of these choices:

* Contact sheets and scan 'em myself hi-res on a crappy scanner for basic proofing

* Englarged contact sheets (which I can have as an archive of the whole shoot) and the

same

* Contact sheets followed by drum or hi-res pro scan

* Contact sheets and a photo CD for the web stuff

I'm down to four options. I'm also down to three labs to choose from:

Duggal

C-Lab

Printworks

Former is the most full-service and pro. My friend Danny Clinch swears by C-Lab, and

Printworks is just damm cheap and seems to know what they're doing.

Anyone who helps me pick from these confusion options will be rewarded by undying

gratitude and possibly a link to some cool photos from southeast asia.

- N

If I were you I'd get them processed at a respectable lab and heve them all printed 6x4. Then put all but the very poorly exposed in an album. That will be the memory of your trip and unles you do it immediately will never get done. The real crackers that you want to enlarge and frame, scan yourself and post process to your hearts content. If you think you might want lots of 6x4 reprints, or want to send on the web, then get the films scanned to 1200 dpi. at the same time.

This will probably give you the best set of options for a reasonable initial outlay.

Regards.

The expression KISS means Keep It Simple, Stupid.

No offense meant.

Just take the film to any decent lab whether it's Duggal or a camera store or a trusted one-hour lab. Have them process and print with 4x6 prints. If you want to keep it REALLY simple, a place like MotoFoto will make high-res scans to CD for about $13 a roll (24 exposure) including the prints and processing. Be sure to ask for high-res, ie 300 dpi at 8x10 or about 2000 dpi on the negative.

Don't be cheap at this point about film processing costs. After all the film and processing are a fraction of what you spent on your trip.

Once you've seen what you've got, you can decide how to proceed. If you've had the film scanned at the time of processing, you can open the files in Photoshop and print from there, or take them to any lab to be printed however you want them.

The other alternative is to just have the negs developed and printed 4x6 and then buy yourself a Canon or Nikon scanner and scan ONLY the good frames. Much less work than scanning everything.

You won't save any money on contact sheets. That's standard for B&W but in color it's custom lab work far more expensive than 4x6s at the one-hour.

You also mention 1200 dpi -- that' not high resolution off a negative. 2000 and up is, preferably 4000.

Dip and dunk, clip tests, etc. are all beyond your level of experience. Stick with the KISS principle.

"Dip and dunk, clip tests, etc. are all beyond your level of experience."

Wow, you don't say. And of course that's exactly where they'll stay if I never try anything

new.

I worked in graphics and printing for years. Can you take apart and put back together a six

color process heidelberg offset press, and then fire up a print run? Do you know how to do

pre-press properly with standard desktop publishing software, how to calibrate scanned

images, pick the proper dot pitch for the paper, ink, and subject matter? I suspect they're

beyond your level of experience. I, do, however, know how to do those things. And if you

were trying to figure out why the print jobs you were doing kept being unsatisfying and

posted on printjob.net I'd try to start you in the right directions.

I think I can figure out how to kick the level of my photography up just a hair, since I know

what good looks like and I'm not getting it. I came here and was recommended a Yashica

T4 for a rugged and still great point and shoot that you wouldn't murder yourself over if it

fell in the river. So far so good. I got good advice on film.

Now I'm looking for good advice on processing. Keeping it simple has left me with crappy

photos with terrible color and contrast and idiots behind the counter who have no idea

what I'm even asking for or why I don't like what I'm getting. I've become convinced that

the processing stage is a key one, based on my experience using the same camera, the

same film, similar subject matter, and different processing labs, the crappy mall kind. I

want the best processing to start with, then I haven't closed off any options in the event I

have some real gems on my hands in these rolls.

So I want to step up a little. Sorry for asking. OK actually I'm not sorry -- thanks to

everyone else who had very helpful tips. I liked the idea of contact sheets, just because

they're easy and fast to work with and I could page through them. Contrary to your

opinion, kind sir, a 1200 dpi flatbed scan of a contact sheet is more than enough for basic

web use and composition and subject matter check in the interim while you figure out

which the good shots are. Given 35mm being film, and 25mm or so being an inch that's

around 1500 pixels across. How large is YOUR nice color calibrated monitor? Right,

exactly.

Anyways, a valiant effort but indeed it just didn't make sense, had to admit. Here's what I

did this morning -- I went to Duggel and had them do the D+D processing, Hi-res drum

scans of the negs (that also come with cut down file sizes on the same disc for each

image), and then their regular minilab printing of 4x6 prints for everything so I don't have

to try to page through the entire shoot with a goddamm mouse for hours waiting for the

shots to render one at a time on the screen.

So far I'm pretty happy with the plan... we'll see what we got and go from there. If there's

anything brilliant I'll just go back and get custom work done. If not, I'll keep trying to gain

more "experience"

As they say.

I would probably have them all developed by Manhattan Color Labs for about $5 each, with no prints (this is not much cheaper than drugstore developing with 4x6 prints, but I've had too many scratched rolls in cheap places).

Then I'd sleeve the negs and pore over them with a good loupe over a light table, marking the likely shots. I'd narrow it down to 30 frames, and have them printed up large. Any more, and the eyes of my audience would glaze over, regardless of how good they were.

I'd look for a lab that will process and scan the negs to CD. Not too long ago, Wal*Mart was offering that for something like $4.00 a roll out here. I'm sure there are rather more options in NYC. Make sure you're working with a lab that can keep from scratching your film and will sleeve them for storage.

Then you can browse one CD at a time, print some smaller stuff on a desktop printer, and either you'll have scans good enough to print larger or you'll know which ones to have scanned at a higher resolution later.

Because of the variety of films you have, and the different treatment they have gotten, I don't think clip tests and dip-and-dunk makes any sense. I also don't think you'll be that happy with flatbed scans of the contact sheets - yes, you'll have the numerical resolution, but you aren't going to have the range of scanning film and you are going to lose quality in the contact process.

Craig's comments basically do make sense. Before you get too touchy about comments that you asked for, remember that you're the one that put "Newbie help" in the subject line!

I'm very envious if you get 15% that you want to blow up, but maybe you don't shoot as wildly as I do. I'm really envious of your trip and hope you got some great shots.

Van

So I got everything back from Duggal. Cost some pretty serious cash but I think it was

worth it. I got their processing, then minilab prints to look at, then scans of everything. My

shooting was average at best, but the couple ones that hit the spot kinda make up for

everything else. The photos look DRASTICALLY better than anything I've ever taken before,

both in terms of sharpness and color, which I'll ascribe the the buildup of using a better

camera, film, and processing all at the same time.

I think the solution I went for was definitely a good one. There's no way to know but my

gut feeling is that the processing made a huge difference... the colors and saturation are

just awesome, and I'm still working with the minilab prints. I understand why a serious

hobbyist who shoots 20 rolls a week would want to shave two bucks off the processing,

but for my purposes what I got out of Duggal was great, and I'll go back. It's also

interesting to note that they were super nice and helpful to me and all my questions,

contrary to all the comments I've read on this site. She figured out early on from my work/

delivery address that I'm at a major firm that does a lot of work with photographers, which

couldn't have hurt, but regardless she spent time with me, answered dumb questions, all

that. Can't complain.

Really the only extravagance was getting everything scanned -- that accounted for over

half the price. Had I been on a budget with time to kill I would have done the same without

scanning and then scanned what I needed. As expected there are about 50-60 good shots

out of almost 500, and scanning those prints would be fine for web use. Any blowups I get

will be custom regardless, likely no more than like 3-4 of those. Then again, I now have a

neat stack of CD-Rs with every single image well organized in hi and lo res, all drum

scanned. I've spent two hundred bucks on far more useless crap than that... hell in NYC

that could be a bar tab.

Anyways, thanks for the advice, it was helpful and definitely governed my decision

making. Sorry if I sounded snippy to whoever that was, but saying basically "you're not

experienced, therefore I will now deride your desire to start becoming experienced" was

too ironic to ignore. ;-)

Woo hoo. Maybe I'll post a link later with some of the good shots. There are like 10 that

make the entire cost and hassle worth it, and then some.

Cool site y'all have here. Thx again.