"golden droplets" in your M2/M3 viewfinder?

In an earlier <a href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=005VW9">posting</a> I recieved very helpful advice on how to examine an old M2 before buying. One advice on what to look for in the viewfinder read:

<p>

<i>"...at the upper and lower edges of what appears to be a triangular glass [...]receding toward the rear eyepiece [...] If you can see "golden droplets" along the edges, this is evidence of the rangefinder prism begining to de-cement. It might stay forever, it might come completely decemented if the camera takes some kind of shock..."</i>

<p>

I actually noticed these "droplets" i the camera, and put the purchase on hold. I took a walk to a couple of camerashops in Copenhagen to examine a few old Leica's and I noticed that all the M2 and M3 I looked at (5) did also have these "droplets". <br>Now I wonder; how common is the phenomenon? Am I likely to find one without?

I sent two old M3s, one old M2 and an M4 to Leica USA for tune-ups.

Everyone of the cameras came back with the annotation, "rangefinder

shows signs of de-cementing." I sold the M3s and M4, but use the M2

all of the time with no ill effect, and the notification of

the "problem" was made in 1989. I would suppose if there are signs

of the problem, then the ethical thing to do would be to mention it

on the invoice, as Leica did, but I don't know how important it is in

real life. I would guess that any complex item that is over thirty

five years old would not be perfect. Other than the annotation,

Leica made no recommendations or warnings, so I enjoyed these cameras

like there was no problem. All performed flawlessly.

<p>

This is only my experience. Someone else on this forum may have a

story that counters mine... where the camera failed.

<p>

Good luck.

I just checked my M3 and if you shine a light into the finder and

look with a magnifier, there is a small line of very tiny bubbles at

the bottom edge of some element inside the finder. Now I recently had

mt entire finder taken apart to bits and every single glass surface

was cleaned by Bill Maxwell. He told me the prism was in good

condition but that some cameras he has cleaned up had to have the

prisms replaced as the coatings had deteriorated. I'm sure he would

have told me if a few tiny bubbles were something to be concerned

about. If the finder is clear, bright, and everything lines up, I

wouldn't worry about it.

Repair people have told me the decementing problem is very rare on

M4's. My M4 is still droplet-free, it's a 1970 model 3 years into

production, so pehaps the early ones used the same cement as the M2's

and the later ones used another type. My M2's were both late-models

('63 and '65) and both had droplets. I guess the cement gets brittle

with age. I was told that they might stay fine forever, or a sudden

shock might cause the prism to decement completely. I liked my M2's

ok but even with the quick-load kits they were still slower to rewind

than the later bodies and didn't have meters. Considering I could

get a pair of mint M6's for what a collector paid me for my pair of

M2's, I chose to do that deal rather than risking $500 rangefinder

replacements in the M2's.

I have two M3 and both of them has this problem, well not a problem

yet; I still use them one on a 21 with a finder, and the other holds

a 50 and a hardly used 90, so my only worry is about having a problem

on both and lose that finder for the 90 and the 50, but not so much

the 50, since I like the one provided by the .72 in my M4P.Good luck,

and don´t drope it.

Great! another reason to lie awake at night worrying! Only a matter

of time before my beloved M3 develops those "golden droplets" But

soft, what light through yonder rf window breaks! It is John Van

Stelten with the news that he repairs beam splitter prisms all the

time. The only problem, he says, comes when the semi-silvered surfaces

are left exposed to the air long enough to tarnish, so if your prism

de-cements I guess you should deal with it pronto. He goes on:

"The usual beamsplitter repair runs around $250-$300. The replacement

may be $700.00 at Leica, but remember that they no longer have

original M3 exchanges, but will replace with an M6 RF that is not

really close to original.".............

Thanks for your input. I'll go for it. As some people has pointed

out, the price I pay for the camera/lens leaves room for repairs,

should it be neccessay. I'll stop worrying and start photographing.

Thanks.

guys, Dont worry about the problem. The finders, in my opinion, are fully useable until the telemeter mirror becomes too dark to focus with. At this stage i would recoment using CRR in Luton, UK.

http://www.angelfire.com/biz/Leica/

The site isnt very impressive, but the guy there used to work for Leitz, and serviced my M3 a year ago, for somewhere around 130 ukp over about two weeks (posted to him and returned), having dismantled and re-plated the mirror, recalibrated, CLA, and even having replaced the wax seal with the "L" at the front. The machine works perfectly, and my twin-stroke M3 will be fine for at least another 20 years.

I do recommend him, he is actually a godsend, as Leitz won't do that kind of servicing any more.

t+