Rating

Since 2005 were constantly worsened rating the system. In former

times in principle with names one evaluated. That was the best

system, because everyone showed responsible for its choice. All

assistance, that are to support the recent system, failed. When do

you return to the old system?

Ernst, I have to agree. The anonymous rating system has become a hideout for bots and fake accounts, vandalizing the TRP. PN is no fun any more.

Ernst,

 

I, too, somewhat dislike the anonymous ratings -- they take away from much of the social aspects of the site, and prevent one from evaluating the work of the evaluators -- a severe detriment in my book.

 

However, if you look back a year to before anonymous ratings, this site was devoted almost entirely to complaints about ratings and Brian Mottershead was overloaded with those complaints. I daresay those complaints, many of which were directed personally against Brian, probably took a major toll in Brian's personal life -- they would have if they were directed at me.

 

And since this is primarily a one-man show, with its success dependant on the abilty of Brian M. to deliver the goods (presumably without significant work-related headaches), and since he is getting regular accolades for the new changes he has had the time to make since he has been freed from rating-related disputes, I suggest you are never going to see 'anonymous' ratings go away.

 

I can live with it, even though I miss the collegial aspects of the old system; I understand why it must be.

 

John (Crosley)

I've given up. I finally accept the fact that the best I can hope for is a 4/4. I don't bother to look--what matters is the feedback.

One of the problem related to open rating is that there are high chances of reciprocation, if you rate low and let you know your name. I know that reciprocation of a 7 is not allowed in the short term. Is there a particular reason for allowing LOW reciprocations and NOT high reciprocations? I happened to rate 3/4 directly (NON anonimous rating) a photo not particularly beautiful. Well, in a matter of SECONDS, I was reciprocated directly with a 3/4 for a photo that was otherwise getting much better ratings. Again, I rated 4/4 giving explanations, and again in minutes, 4/4 back (NO explanations, of course). Sincerely, I doubt I will again rate low with a comment.

I would like to amend my previous statement.

 

The only ratings that matter to me are the ones left by members. I pay no attention to anonymous ratings. The 20-odd 4/4's and below are cancelled out by the people who are identified and leave ratings. If Joe,Mary, and Bob leave me 5's and 6's, I put much more weight into that than anything else.

Giovanni, it's a pretty sad individual who reciprocates with a bad rating for spite. As long as you explain the why's, nobody should have a beef with you. I like to think I'm above that kind of thing.

I would have loved being around when there were no anonymous ratings. It is right that the 3's and 4's you receive without any comments do not help, but the same is the case of the 6's and the 7's. I happen to have been most confused by high ratings of some of my photos I don't personally consider as photos of particular quality, which I introduced to test the system. If the ratings were not anonymous and no explanation is given you can at least go the portfolio of the persons to see what they themselves produce and compare.

 

Anders

So Ernst, do you want to go back to an endless series of flamingo and pelican pictures with black velvet backgrounds?

Anyone who thinks that things were great/better when ratings were not anonymous either probably wasn't around when the s*** hit the fan about a year ago, has a short memory, or participated heavily in mate rating cliques.

 

It is what it is. I for one think it is a far better and FAIRER system now, and *everyone* (if their photos are good enough) has a legitimate chance at making the default TRP pages (if that matters to you).

<i>"Ernst, I have to agree. The anonymous rating system has become a hideout for bots and fake accounts, <b>vandalizing the TRP</b>. PN is no fun any more." -- Jan Peter</i><P>

Jan - that is <b>exactly</b> what happened (prior to you joining PN) to the TRP pages with direct rates (via mate rating) and bogus accounts. The TRP was basically hijacked by mate rating cliques.

The anonymous rating system has contributed greatly to fix two major problems: the mate-rating perpetrated by people with pathetic egos and the revenge ratings perpetrated by the childish ones. If there is anyway the present system could be improved, that would be making it 100% anonymous and let the moderators care about the abusers (which I think they do very well BTW). There will never be perfect systems that will please everyone, but this one is far more fair than before.

With the experiences presented above of the those that have lived the old system, I think you are rigth - the present system with all its faults, is maybe the best we can choose.

 

Anders

I have been a PN member now for about one year. For the most part I have sat back and been quiet about the countless complaints about low ratings. To all of you that have complained all I can say is that if you are thinking that a 4/4 is a low rating, you should re-think the rating system and the enormous amount of talent that can be found on PN. To be thought of as average in that pool is really a compliment. While the 1s and 2s have been removed from the count (a mistake IMO). The real problem is the lack of feedback about why an average or below average rating has been given, or for that matter why an above average rating was given. As an art photography is and always will be subjective to the viewer. There will always be those that do not for their own reasons like a work that you might find outstanding. Each and every one of us (including myself) should take more time not only rating the photography we look at but also expressing why we rate the way we do. I for one am proud to receive a rating of anything 4 and above. A lower rating can only serve to keep me on my toes and not become complacent in my efforts. If you don�t want to see that there are those that for one reason or another does not consider your photograph average or below simply don�t post it for a rating or a critique. You can�t please everyone every time that�s just a fact of life.

I couldn't agree more with you, Alexandre

It is always nice to see that people like the photos i make.

It is also nice, but absolutely not neccesary, when they rate my pictures. When i get low ratings it does not change my opinion about the photo, because i don't place photo's on PN that i don't like. :) But i really want to know why the give low ratings, because then i can learn from the comments and improve my photos.

That is why i dislike this anonymous rating. I don't learn anything from it. The other day i got ratings for my dog Dude. People gave me 6 and 7 with their names behind it. There were also anonymous ratings 3/3 ?

I really wanted to know what was wrong with the photo. Probably i will never know.

From my comments in this thread:

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Flwn&tag=

 

2) I think that the new interface puts an unnecessary barrier between the viewer and the

comment field. You shouldn't have to click to show the comment field. In fact, I think that

you should rate and then be taken to the empty comment field by default before being

allowed to move on to the next picture. People should have to actively decline to

comment, not the other way around. And before you jump down my throat, I say this as a

professional Web developer with 10 years of experience designing and deploying user

interfaces for dozens of clients.

I've been convinced that some people are just using the rating system to browse the new photos, and just vote everything a 3/3. Consequently I just put images in for rating so people will look at them, but mostly ignore the ratings.

All rating should show the name. OR have a comment box next to the 4/4 or lower rating to explain why. before rating will go thru if the comment box is not filled out then it wont count

I don't think people should be made to comment if they don't want to. However, they

should be strongly encouraged to do so. Like I said, here's how I'd make it play out.

 

1) View photo along with rating radio buttons.

 

2) Submit rating.

 

3) Photo view with comment box ON TOP along with the text: "enter your comments here".

 

In order to move on to the next photo they either have to comment or click a button that

says "no comment." That way they're prompted NOT to comment rather than the other way

around.

 

And the forum should be updated to PHPBB. I'm jus' sayin'.

 

;)

Oh, and I don't think the anonymous function should be removed. Back before the anon

function existed people got a lot of harassment messages when they rated low. People

should be allowed to rate low without facing backlash from the photographer. Sometimes a

photo just doesn't deserve anything over a 3 in the opinion of the rater and that person

shouldn't be subjected to nasty comments if that's really how they feel about the image.

The ratings are a joke and a fiasco. No photo, no matter how good it is, is immune to the anonymous 3/3. So I constanly read that keeping ratings anonymous will prevent mate rating. WRONG! There's mate rating going on now, and we all know who they are. I don't expect my photos to be rated 7 or 6 even, but it is so frustrating to get 3/3 on a photo that you put a lot of hard work into. It's not so much that it's a low rating. It's the fact that it's ALWAYS anonymous, so that makes you wonder the sincerity or the motivation behind the rating.

People upload pix here to either seriously or less seriously find out what other's think...

if both rater's - and photographer's who upload pictures were anonymous - no matter

what the feared problems might be - the results would be:

A. More honest than ever OVERALL. (even with the current system - the cheaters will cheat

- BUT - at least if both the raters names and the photographer's names are anonymous -

cheating will be more difficult AND it would simply be more likely that out of all those

around the world who look at and use this site - the most popular PICTURES would get the

most ratings. (Isn't that what everyone ultimately wants? That p.net be as fair and honest

as possible?)

B. And were the system more fair, logic dictates less complaining about the system itself.

C. The site admin/mgmt. would have more power instead of less as they could then easily

point out the fairness to all and be done with the whining about ratings.

D. It would be more fun! to find out HONESTLY what others around the planet think of

one's picture.

 

Seems simple enough to me.

Wade, you have been here for about seven months so you are pretty clueless to the way it was a year or so ago. Take John's, Michael's, Alexandre's, James's, Chris's and my word for it, this system is not perfect but it is much better than it was. Will, "ratings are a joke and fiasco"? Do the critique only thing if you can't take the low rates. Any poster here that worries about ratings will have a long and difficult road to being a good photographer. To get good you have to have a thick skin, take the good with the bad and do a lot of shooting.

(The rating bit actually works "fair to good" but I'm tired of it). No more rating for me unless the image is really special in terms of presentation and skills. I think the images from Ernst are pretty damn good. He shouldn't worry about the rating system. And my last batch of images for rating just got uploaded. Critique only on mine now. Tot Ziens, Wiedersehen, Au Revoir, Adios. Later.