matter of ethics

I take photos of birds and small mammals by baiting them with food. my daughter

a naturalist tells me this is unethical,it is her feelings that animals should

not be baited for my or our intertainment, it is unnatural. we decided to seek

your opinion. an example of my work is attached.<div></div>

Yes it is unnecessary and unethical in case of wildlife. Your case is sort of different as your yard birds dependent on you and your neighbors food supply. They are a few steps below your cat or dog in dependency but getting there. As long as you do not have a great ideas about baiting creatures in natural reserves you are OK.

 

Just do not let them get drank and drive:)

This topic has gone around and around. There seem to be three camps:

 

1) Don't worry about.

 

2) Feeding large animals (e.g. bears, deer) leads to their destruction, but something like a bird feeder in the back yard is no big deal. Occasional baiting here and there is OK for small wild animals.

 

3) No feeding anything at any time.

 

Me? I fall in the middle, #2. Feeding large animals causes problems, but small scale feeding smaller ones does no harm if it's a strictly occasional thing. I exempt backyard bird feeders from the discussion since they are so common. Bottom line is you have to be comfortable with what you do.

 

 

Kent in SD

I like the comment about not doing it in a wildlife preserve. you all do know that wildlife

preserves are there to service hunters, don't you? That is the whole genesis of the Federal

fish and game department, funded totally by ammunition taxes.

 

But I think the question is just one of people in this genre's photographic community.

Photojournalists get downright religious about faking anything and there is a certain point

to that. But I doubt an occasional baiting for birds anywhere is going to wreak havoc on

the eco system, but it might break the "code" of bird photographers. But then, one of my

early adult contacts with a bird photographer was that he had a license to net wild birds so

he could photograph them--somehow that seems more harmful than placing a little

birdseed out in the wild.

Use common sense. What you want to prevent is an unnatural dependency. Are you going to ban all birdfeeders? Deer feeders? Zoos? Pets? Stop planting corn just because some animal or insect might eat some of it? What about water too? Joe Smith

<I>Photojournalists get downright religious about faking anything and there is a certain point to that. But I doubt an occasional baiting for birds anywhere is going to wreak havoc on the eco system, but it might break the "code" of bird photographers.</I>

<P>

Now we are getting serious again. Taking documentary photographs in any genre by definition do not allow any manipulation as we will loose purpose of it. Making art, or so, who cares as long as somebody is not trying to pass it as real. There is no 'code' in bird photography or to say it better there many dependent on who you are talking to. Most bird's, and any other nature images for that matter, are what I call 'bird on the stick'. Anything goes: set-up perch, baiting, arranged background, name it. As the world is full of them (those images), again who cares if some are manipulated and called art.

<P>

<I>But I doubt an occasional baiting for birds anywhere is going to wreak havoc on the eco system,</I><P>

Sure but what happened if all people start think like that and feed wildlife? It might not be a problem in back yard but more and more people start feeding wild alligators as an example and those getting more aggressive than they will be remove as dangerous because a few morons tried to make their own rules.

Mark, the key to the last part of your statement is the "morons" reference. Like the people

who used to put honey on their children's cheeks so the grizzlies would lick them in

Yellowstone Park--I don't think a little birdseed once in awhile by a few birders is going to be

a problem--especially since they all don't live in the same place!

Mona, I hope it was clear from my above statement that even I do not approve feeding wildlife I agree that feeding back yard birds is not a serious problem. As far as morons feeding alligators, bears or any large predators I hold my opinion. The problem is that some people cannot see a difference and if you can feed sparrow why not a bear. General statements like that one are sometimes dangerous and cannot be see as rules. Natural word evolved in million years and always was in balance (well, almost always if we do not count moments of catastrophic events or climate changes) on its own. What humans need to do is to stop destroying life on the planet and try to learn more about it to better understand the whole picture of it not just a small private yard. Few seeds won't change the world. But millions of tons could as we will promote huge population growth of a few half domesticated species which will only exist depending on this feed supply. Look how many unwanted cats we have, how many pigeons in towns etc. It is easy to make it happen, harder to deal with consequences. And some of the rare species are ignored because they do not come and take food from our hands showing respect to the masters and rulers of the Earth. Once we all start to understand the true nature rules we will not look for small excuses to satisfy our own even smaller needs for questionable entertainment.

Seems maybe my little fun here lit a bit of a fuse! I think it is a shame that people who are

rational have to worry about what the morons might do with our opinions or comments, fact

is a moron will do it anyway, that is why they are morons!

Shame on you, Joe! I was about to take your side on this until I saw what you are up to. Your daughter is right, but I'm not surprised since she knows you better than I do. Getting small songbirds drunk so you can take their picture is wrong on several levels. Next thing you know, you will be photographing them in the nude. Read Richard Brautigan's "Revenge of the Lawn" to see where this kind of behavior can lead. I can see why your daughter is worried about you.

Potential minefield this one.

 

We feed the birds in our back garden but only after we had checked the whole position out. Basically we took the view that so much of the natural habitat for so many of them had been destroyed that some correction of the balance and some assistance for their survival was/is justified. We have also relied on guidance from the RSPB the largest wildlife conservation organisation in Europe. I readily admit that we also get great pleasure from it.

 

Baiting purely for photography is I am afraid a very different matter. I do not believe that it is for the benefit of the animal but purely a means to an end which in most cases is either for money or for competitive superiority. It does also lead to danger for both animals and humans if it involves large and dangerous species - there are many, many recorded cases of animals "having" to be put down because they are a risk to humans, not because of their shortcomings but because it was deemed acceptable for humans to behave in this way.

 

I lived in Kenya for many years and visited for many more and as a result of my work I came into contact with many people involved with wildlife and I can hardly think of one that approved of baiting, even though they may have in the past.

 

A classic case of the effects of mans behaviour is a subject of much interest at the moment. The number of urban foxes are growing very rapidly. Why ? Because there are mountains of edible litter left out every night because people are to lazy to dispose of it properly. The solution ? Cull them.

 

Mark - I know your views on bird table photographs but often it is about the only way to get photographs of the LBJs :)

Just use a bit of common sense. The most important thing is learn about the creatures you're trying to photograph, and have a little respect for them. I see nothing wrong with putting out a bird feeder, photographing them as they land on nearby trees, putting out a few sunflower seeds for a chipmunk or two, or planting some salvia flowers to draw in the hummingbirds. Where you cross the line is when you endanger both animals and humans, as in putting bacon grease out for bears, leaving food out where raccoons who then become a nuisance, piling up apples and carrots for the deer to the point where they become aggressive, etc. I get really incensed at the "morons" who "love birds", put out a bunch of bird seed in the feeders in the backyard, and then turn the cat loose. The purists among us will say "no baiting, ever", but if you take the time to learn about the creatures and how they may be harmed by baiting, a little bit now and then won't hurt. As for being entertained, darned right I do it for my entertainment. My entertainment ends up in images that I have often used to "entertain" and more importantly EDUCATE other people about nature, and try to get them to appreciate it, respect it, and preserve it.

<I>you all do know that wildlife preserves are there to service hunters, don't you? That is the whole genesis of the Federal fish and game department, funded totally by ammunition taxes. </i><P>

 

A. There is no such thing as a "Federal fish and game department", although there is the US Fish and Wildlife Service.<P>

 

B. National Wildlife Refuges -- if that's what you were refering to -- serve lots of purposes. In many of them, no hunting is allowed, ever.<P>

 

C. I'd like to see a citation or a reference to your claim that 'wildlife preserves' are 'totally' funded by ammunition taxes, because I think you're flat wrong.<P>

<I>you all do know that wildlife preserves are there to service hunters, don't you? That is the whole genesis of the Federal fish and game department, funded totally by ammunition taxes. </i><P>

 

A. There is no such thing as a "Federal fish and game department", although there is the US Fish and Wildlife Service.<P>

 

B. National Wildlife Refuges -- if that's what you were refering to -- serve lots of purposes. In many of them, no hunting is allowed, ever.<P>

 

C. I'd like to see a citation or a reference to your claim that 'wildlife preserves' are 'totally' funded by ammunition taxes, because I think you're flat wrong.<P>

Thank you all for takeing the time to comment.

PS;birds don,t drink wine, there was organic grape juice in the glass.

"PS;birds don,t drink wine, there was organic grape juice in the glass."

 

We have a pet cockatiel with a real taste for vino. Given half a chance she will cruise the dinner table, sipping as she goes. Prefers it to water every time. Got to keep her off the red, though, because she does that head flicking that birds do - very messy! (Before I get reported to the RSPCA - she doesn't get to drink more than a beakful and that rarely; I'm the one paying for the wine, not her!)

Rose-Marie - the big problem with common sense is that it is not common enough - otherwise we appear to be much in accord.

One major concern with bird feeders is the spread of disease to birds, particularly viruses. Intrestingly if you have a lot of bird dropping you have a potenial human health hazard, Histoplasmosis, a fungal infection that enters through the respiratory track. Now, we're generally taking about A LOT of droppings, so your local bird feeder isn't likely to be a problem. But the concern about avian diseases is certainly something to be of concern.

 

I feel a certain sence of responsibility too. I have a thistle feeder up for Goldfinches and the other day I found a dead Goldfinch nearby. A week earlier I had found a dead Chipmunk about three meters from the feeder. The feeder attacks cats intrested in the birds so it is possible that was how the Chipmunk was killed. However, even what I thought was a rather benign thistle feeder may have been a poor choice for my residence to attract wildlife.

<I>We have a pet cockatiel with a real taste for vino. Given half a chance she will cruise the dinner table, sipping as she goes. Prefers it to water every time.</I><BR><BR>

Hmmm...I wonder if Mean Pete would like it. I have a stupid cockatiel with an attitude, maybe the wine would mellow him out a bit. He certainly tells me when wild birds are outside the window. Especially at the crack of dawn.

This is a case where if you're sensible enough to ask the question, you can answer it yourself. Funny diversion, but I've got to get back to feeding the birds.

In the area that I live we have bears ,cougar,wolves,coyote, etc .

 

The main reason for not feeding the animals ,is because they will become acustom to people and lose their fears if any , and will approach people buy coming into their towns, property, etc , when this does happen often the result is they become a nusiunce and a danger to the public , sometimes they are moved , or destroyed . So feeding wild life is not a good idea .

Bird feeders and that type of thing is not at all the same as I see it.