Magenta cast using Velvia for waterfalls

Has anyone had any problems with Velvia and waterfalls? I took a

bunch of waterfall shots this last weekend and the water has a slight

magenta cast. I have had the same waterfalls appear to have a bluish

cast in the past with a Neg film. Shooting with canon T90 and

20mm,24mm,35mm,Canon nFD lenses.

 

I was also shooting with my Rolleiflex and using EPL 400 ASA film and

the waterfalls are bone white!

 

Interesting.

If you're shooting in ideal conditions for waterfall photography (i.e., cloudy or shade), then Velvia (and Provia 100F) really needs a warming filter. They have a cool bias anyway which is very pronounced in overcast conditions.

 

You'll probably need something stronger than the 81A to compensate for Velvia's color cast.

Velvia has relatively poor reciprocity characteristics. It will shift noticeably towards magenta in exposures longer than about a second or so.

Mark, I saw your post on this in the Canon list but didn't have a chance to respond... I've had the same problem when using Velvia on waterfalls, and I agree that it appears to be a reciprocity issue. You didn't say how long your exposures were on the Velvia, but FWIW I've encountered this with the following conditions: (1) water shaded, and (2) exposures of 15 to 30 seconds. According to the data sheet, Velvia will start to exhibit a color shift at much shorter exposures than that. (As for the "water shaded" part, that's almost a given; any direct sunlight on the water and I'm reduced to a film-saving observer.)

Andrew is right about the reciprocity characteristics of Velvia. I've had the same problem with RVP, however, that being said, Velvia 100F doesn't seem to have the same problem. I would suggest you give it a try. You may even like it!

OK I can go along with the long exposure problems but this is not the case here some of these exposures were faster then 1/4 sec. And still some color cast. I'm pretty sure I won't bother trying Velvia again for the falls. The light while being pretty bright was on the cloudy side. I know Alan is most likely the only one here who has done Silver Creek Falls enough to know the area I was shooting but it is in a rather deep steep heavily douglas fir canyon 90% of what you see is very green this time of year. The falls I was shooting Alan were North, Lower North, Drake, And the two side falls Winter and Double (niether of these showed any problems but they are always heavy shade.

 

I think I will just switch to a Ektachrome or Elitechrome for these falls. I just thought is was so weird.

Seems to me there's some strange views about RVP 50 here.

Doesn't the spec sheet indicate the use of a weak magenta filter

to counteract the effects of reciprocity? If so it is pretty unlikely

that the magenta cast you've observed is the result of long

exposures. More likely in my view that the interaction between

light and water is creating some form of slight "rainbow effect"

and Velvia is picking up the warm end of that spectrum , which it

is prone to do. I suspect this is a bit like Velvia's tendency to

make bluebells look pinkish when there's the slightest bit of light

on them.

 

Velvia naturally coolish? I don't think so. It might be cooler than

you like, but it is not cool in absolute terms. One of Velvia's

greatest strengths is to drag a bit of warmth and saturation out of

dull scenes. You couldn't say that if it were basically cool. Provia

100F- now that's cool by comparison.

 

The thing I do find about Velvia after many years of shooting

hundreds of rolls a year is its unpredictability in the face of

colour in the light. On the one hand you can shoot dawns and

sunsets and if there's the slightest bit of pink/magenta/yellow in

the sky then you can bet your house that Velvia will pick that up

and exaggerate it; sometimes nicely, sometimes badly. On the

other hand I've had lots of frames shot in blue-grey light

pre-dawn and after sunset which have turned out vivid blue.

Exaggeration of any colour-bias in the light, especially in low light

conditions, is what Velvia does. And even then the effect can be

enhanced or muted by processing. A guy I often shoot with has

his work processed at a different pro lab and very often his Velvia

is brighter and redder than my Velvia.

I use a CCM10 myself to remove the color on long exposures.

 

Cheers,

 

Doug

I'm wondering if the STRONG reflected green that comes off the trees and foliage in this area could be a source of problem. I wish my scanner was better I would post an example. I'll try that in a hour or two.

 

But again long exposure is not the cause here some of these were hand held so not slower then 1/30th and even the stuff I shot on the Pod were longer then 1/4. And I used not smaller then f16 and for the most part f8 or 11.

Velvia should do just the opposite, it goes green usually for me and according to the Fuji specs you should add magenta for long exposures. can not really compare to print film becasue they can color correct during printing. Have you tried different batches of film or just one? Could be out of date or gotten hot. Also are the waterfalls deep in the forest like you would see in NC or OR or more like big open falls?

They are in fact in Oregon and yes they are very deep down into the forest canyon's

Have you looked at the film on a light box? Did you scan the film yourself? Was any color control being done by the scanner software?

Hi Doug, do you use the CCM10 filter on Velvia? As I experience pink/magenta cast with a long exposure with Velvia I wonder if you could tell me which brand of filter you use? Does it fit the P-system of Cokin? I would very much like to avoid this color cast when using Velvia with long exposures (>15 seconds). Thanks.

Just to be clear, if you've got a magenta cast problem with Velvia's reciprocity failure, as often happens, adding ten points of magenta by using a CC (color correction) M (magenta) 10 (10 points) is going to INCREASE the amount of magenta, not cancell it out. I don't rightly know why the CCM10 even came up in this thread. The correct filter to use would be a CCG10, Green bieng the color used to cancell out magenta.

 

The magenta shift is more pronounced if the film hasn't been refrigerated for a while.

Before we get any more advice from people who haven't read the

thread or the spec aheets for Velvia, let me reiterate that

according to Fuji's spec sheet you should add a pale magenta

filter to counteract the effect of reciprocity. That's because they

expect the effect of long exposure to be to add green. Some

people contributing above seem to agree with the manufacturer.

 

This indicates that the cause of the original posters colour cast

is unlikely to be reciprocity, and indeed he has indicated as such

himself .

The idea that this film may have gotten warm is a possiblity. I bought it off ebay for a song. And while the magenta cast is only noticable on white subjects. Once I get to scanning it for prints I will just add a little bit of green to balance things out. I will most likely asign the rest of the batch to less important work or work I know will be for printing not projection. Thanks for all the different advise and comments. Confusinag as always LOL

 

Mark W.