greenpalm

George? Seriously? There are pros who trade for babysitting and spend money out of their own pocket on lens rentals?

How do they make a living? If they don't make a living, why do they do it?

Thanks to Gary for saying that shot is "first class." I actually agree with you. (although I could point out several things that

are wrong with it) I love it. It's my favorite from the entire event. However, it was in the situation I feel most comfortable

with out on a porch in open shade with natural and reflected light. I also did a fair amount of work on it in Adobe Lightroom,

but I make no apologies for that. They are not all this good. That's why I asked my question about what the posters who

wanted to see a few really want to see. (the best, the worst? Something in between?) I can show you one or two or three

stellar images and that does not mean I did a good job photographing their wedding. I'm pretty inconsistent. I could be

better with practice, but I'd probably die of a heart attack trying!

Thanks again! I do feel a little better as I go through the weeding and editing process, just getting the crummy ones out of

the way has made it a little more appealing to look at only the better quality ones, also as I crop and edit, they keep looking

a little less horrid. Nothing I do will get me a good shot of the processional though.

Julie<div></div>

I want to thank everyone for the emotional support. I've got to say, you've surprised me. I do not generally find the tenor of

this site and this forum to be so charitable. (Compared to my digi-scrapbooking site which is nauseatingly and insincerely

sweet and kind, you guys are cutthroat, but often effectively brutally honest.) Thank you. I would be happy to post a few

pictures, but it would help me to understand to what end? I don’t especially want a critique, I’m pretty sure I could itemize

what’s wrong with each and everyone one of them, and if there is something else wrong that I overlooked, I’m pretty sure I

don’t want to know. Do you want to see the bad ones to offer advice on improving them? Do you want to see the good ones

so you can tell me I didn't fail as miserably as I think? Do you want to see the bad ones so you can just witness the train

wreck and be grateful you aren't responsible? (ha ha!) Do you want to see the good ones so you can fully appreciate just how

bad the bad ones must be if those I post are "good?" I can’t show you the ones I didn’t take, which is probably the most

echoing void of all. (Namely shots of the whole wedding procession from the front) I was thinking of posting a few, but I don't

know what to show you. Should I show you the ones I wish were better because they have some redeeming qualities but lots

of imperfections? Should I show you the handful that I think hit the mark? Should I show you the ones that were so bad I hit

the "reject" flag instantly? Should I show them to you in their original state or should I show you the ones I've doctored up?

Should I show you a few I think I'd like to have some help with? I have a feeling the ones I can’t fix probably aren’t fixable. I

just don't know where to start! Altogether, we shot 625 frames.

I honestly didn't start this thread because I wanted help, although I'm eternally grateful to those of you who have generously

offered your time to do so (off-list)! I just wanted to lament a little and I truly thought there might be a soul saved by having

read this.

Initially, I 100% agreed with Steve C. that they should have just left the wedding for later. That date they had set for next

summer would have been fine, even though Dad wouldn't have made it. The days and events for which they will be acutely

aware of his absence are infinite, and this is only the beginning of an aching chasm. Insisting on having him there for the

wedding almost felt like a discourtesy to me. Like a selfish motivation on the part of the couple. I even said as much to my

husband. My husband though, with whom I share three children, one of whom is a two year old daughter, said to me, "How

do you know that he hadn't been dreaming of his little girl's wedding day since the day she was born? How do you know that

it wasn't extremely important to him that he be there to give her away?" I reluctantly agreed that he had a point, and I

admitted that I knew so little about the couple or the family or the father in particular to presume to make that choice for them,

even if I did think I knew better.

Regarding George Martinez's thoughts on how my actions coupled with the choice of the bride and groom affect the

profession. I'm not sure I agree. I don't think this couple was going to hire a pro whether or not I agreed to help them. If I

hadn't agreed, they probably would have just gotten their friends and family to bring their cameras and made do with what they

had. If it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget. All I did was improve the quality a little (and I still believe I did! I just wish

I’d done it even better! I wanted to do as well as a pro, even if that’s not what they expected) My grandparents were old

school florists. They owned a dedicated flower shop in Dallas, Texas 50 years ago, they ran it until they died. By the time

they died there wasn't a business left to run. With flowers available at every grocery store and even Walmart, the competition

is tough, because it's both cheap and convenient. (Is the customer service or quality the same?) Still, they got up and went

in every day, but the place was like a time warp. It was just a reason to get up in the morning, and not a bad one, but

certainly not a profitable one, the profession has been permanently altered. It's sad, and it's the same for hardware stores,

little Mom & Pop office supply places and a dozen other businesses I could name. I’m consistently irritated by the lack of

customer service or quality at Home Depot but I still shop there. It’s cheap, and it’s gotten to be the only choice. Granted,

my hardware and home repair are not once-in-a-lifetime events, but again, if it’s not in the budget it’s just not in the budget.

Shoot, if I had it to do over again, I’d hire professional photographers to shoot the births of all my kids. I don’t have a single

frame of video of ME holding my daughter on the day she was born, and the photos I have are disappointing. Too bad I can’t

give birth and take pictures at the same time. I got burned with a cheap bicycle from Walmart for one of my kids. It was only

30 dollars, but it cost plenty in wear and tear on me because the pedals are so stiff he cries with frustration virtually every

time we get it out. I read an article about kids’ bikes before we bought it. The article said, “Kids bikes are not toys, don’t buy

them at a toy store, go to a reputable bicycle shop and get a professional to size them. Pay a little more for quality” I thought

that was ridiculous to spend that kind of money when I didn’t even know if riding a bike was something he would enjoy. The

trouble is, now he practically hates it because he has no experience with anything but a crummy bike! Still though, there are

plenty of kids out there who wouldn’t have a bike at all if it weren’t for Walmart. It’s not like everyone can afford to go to a

reputable bicycle shop and have their kids sized by a pro. Neither can everyone hire a pro to shoot their wedding. I imagine

there are far more weddings without pros photographing them than there are weddings with pros in attendance! I think the real

challenge that all these schmoes with digital cameras who are hanging out a shingle and calling themselves “professionals,”

is how hard it is for the consumer to separate the wheat from the chafe. How do I know what “quality” of wedding photography

I’m getting? I only get married once (or twice! ha ha!) So, I never have the opportunity to get experience hiring someone.

That’s a long way of saying, it’s not people like me who are lowering the standards of the profession. It’s the so called

“professionals” who are doing that. I’m just running a charity. Or, at any rate, I was, as I told my husband the minute I got

home from the wedding, “I’m NEVER going to do that again!” However, my assistant has other ideas she, and a friend who

have each seen a handful of the pics are nearly swooning. My assistant said, “YOur photos are gorgeous! YOu know people

are going to want you to do this again :-P “ and a very close friend of mine said upon seeing three, “You are now ordered to

stop stressing!  These are beautiful!!” Neither of them really made me feel any better though! First, the photos I showed

them weren’t really representative of the whole batch, and second, I don’t believe either of them hold my to a sufficiently high

standard.

I’ve gotten rather long winded here and I think I sound a little more “ranty” than I meant to. My real intention in posting was to

express some gratitude to those of you who have shown such encouraging support. You’ve all gone a long way to remind me

that perfection is not required or expected, and yes, the B & G almost certainly will be grateful for what I’ve done. I need to

make peace with it and move on. I probably do deserve a bit of a pat on the back just for giving it a shot and I probably have

been too hard on myself. That said, I've added three of my favorite shots to my portfolio under "single photos" and one that my

assistant took that has the white balance issue. I just did low res .jpgs, not the full size files. I couldn't figure out how to add them

directly to this post.

Thanks again, everyone.<div></div>

I haven't said a word to B & G. I doubt they will dislike them as much as I do. I haven't posted them anywhere. I've been

working on them in lightroom, cropping, etc. My plan was to try to get the very best few and only show them those.

Chalk me up to another sad entry in the “Must Read Before You Shoot Your First Wedding” thread. I blew it yesterday. In spite of

all my efforts to the contrary, and in spite of my better judgment.

I am not a professional. I do not pretend to be a professional. I never represented myself as a professional.

My trainer at the gym had a sad story that tugged at my heart strings. I had mentioned in an offhand way that photography was a hobby of mine. He later told me that he and his fiancee had planned a wedding for next summer, but that her father had been giving a month to live.

They rush-planned the wedding for a date six weeks out, desperately hoping that the father of the bride could be there.

The groom asked me if I would photograph it and I said, “Absolutely Not!” like the wise and sensible person that I truly am. However, when he asked again, rather panicky, a couple of weeks later telling me that the pro they talked to wanted $800, my sympathy overcame my good sense and I agreed. Now, I thought $800 sounded pretty reasonable, but my dad paid for my wedding, and I have no idea what the package they were offered included, and I’ve got a husband with a good job. I agreed to do it in exchange for he and his bride baby-sitting my

children. I figured they ought to have some practice in that arena anyway. I lost my own mother to leukemia six years ago and the

bride’s father’s imminent demise got under my skin. I figured I could do at least a little better than, “Uncle Harry,” in any case. I wasn’t

about to take money from them, because I couldn’t possibly promise to deliver a decent product. They assured me they would not know

the difference between professional and amateur photos anyway (ha!).

I am often asked to do photos for people I know. Again, I’ve never represented myself as anything but a hobbyist. They see the

SLR and maybe a long lens, and my flash bracket, even owning a tripod makes you “serious,” and they see my Christmas slide show

full of lovely pictures I’ve taken of my own children, and they think I’m good at this. I remind them that the pics in the slide show are the

very very best and maybe .1% out of the 10,000 I take in a year. I tell people, “no” over and over again, and feel like a jerk for doing it.

I home school three small children, I have my hands totally full, and I don’t need the money. Besides which, by the time I hired a baby

sitter, it would cost me money most of the time, not to mention stress. I also hate the pressure of trying to please someone other than

myself. However, when it comes to cancer I have a soft spot. I have taken family portraits for a neighbor and friend who is a single

mom with terminal breast cancer. I also take obituary photos for her every few months, although we never call them that. We call them

individual portraits. So…

I agreed to shoot this wedding. I came here and read virtually everything I could get my hands on. I asked in a thread about the

very best wedding photographers out there so I could at least look at examples of really good wedding pics and try to get some

inspiration. I read through “critique my first wedding” threads, and in some cases was mortified by the abysmal quality folks were

sometimes getting paid for. Thinking if I were a bride who’d paid for that I’d be in tears. I read through every nightmare thread in the

“Must Read: Before you shoot your first wedding thread.” I went to the location at the same time of day that the wedding would be, to

look at the light. At the facility they had about a dozen albums full of photos from other weddings that had taken place there. I looked

through those and thought about potential shots. I thought about where the wedding would be, what kind of equipment I would need. I

arranged for an assistant to come with me. She has the same camera model that I do, I figured she could be both a second shooter and

a back up camera. I read and read and read. I practiced shooting, I used my own wedding dress, dug out of storage and practiced

getting the exposure right to show details in the beading in lots of different light. I spent money out of my own pocket on a new flash and

a rented lens and books to help me learn. I found a great free tutorial: Photographing a Friend or Relative’s Wedding by John A. Lind,

and read every word, at least twice. Then the bride’s father got sicker and died, they actually wedding took place in the hospital a

couple of days before, the originaly date the wedding, now an affirmation of vows, date got changed. In between the light changed, the

weather got colder and we even changed the clocks. I think I still would have been okay, but we had a cold front blow in over night and

the wedding got moved inside.

I did “okay” but could have done better.

The biggest problem that I had was that all my lenses were too long to shoot inside the house. I rented a 70-200 thinking I was going to be out in a big spacious yard. I practiced with it and was very comfortable with it, but could barely use it in the house. I wanted to rent a wide angle too, for the reception, but I let my husband talk me out of it (duh!)

Fortunately my assistant has a wide angle so we agreed that she would concentrate on wide shots and I would get close-ups. However,

when it came time for the actual ceremony. I didn’t think very carefully. I should have had my assistant go up to the alter and shoot

down the aisle as the wedding party came in, but I didn’t. So all the shots we have are from the back. There was no room for one of us

up there anyway. This was literally in the living room of a regular sized house. The alter was in one corner and the bride was coming in

from a brightly lit doorway. There were windows on three sides of this room, so everywhere I turned was backlit.

Now a pro with lots of experience would have been able to deal with the back lighting in a situation like that, but I couldn’t, and even if I could have, I’d have been limited to close-ups of faces, or even just nostrils, with that lens! I suppose a pro would have been more assertive than I am too, and just gotten up there at the alter and squeezed in. I had my gray card with me, but I couldn’t see stopping the bride in the doorway

and saying, “excuse me, stop right there while I get this exposure down, could you please hold this card?”

I did the best I could, but I’m concerned that it wasn’t very good. I hope that they are reasonably happy with the results. If I were an experienced pro, I would have much better experience with the unexpected, but all my planning didn’t allow for me being inside the house. All my pre-planned shots just were a waste of my time. I had a new flash, but I wasn’t very comfortable with it, and it fell off my bracket and crashed to the floor during the ceremony. Also, my phone rang during the ceremony. Oh my god! (at least I was at the back for that!) I am happy with the pics I took in natural light outside on the porch just after the ceremony and I got a “few” decent shots. My assistant got some good shots too, but she wasn’t comfortable shooting out of the “preset” modes on her camera, which meant she couldn’t shoot in RAW. I

shot in RAW and am able to correct a lot of white balance/exposures stuff on my shots, but her shots all seem to have too much

magenta and purple or orange in the skin tones and I can’t seem to fix, it even with lightroom, presumably because they are .jpgs. All in

all, I came home miserable and couldn’t sleep and am just sick over having let them persuade me to do it.

I hope my experience may serve to dissuade someone else from getting in over your head. ugh.

I aim high. I think my title says it all. Show me mind blowing breathtaking unsurpassable wedding photography. I want to see the best

there is.

Thank you.

This is my situation and it's my first wedding ever to photograph. I think my couple thinks it is kind of funny because they

are having a tall blond bride and a short brunette groom as figures on their cake! I guess you just make the most of it.

These suggestions are helpful.

I used to use Fuji NPH 400 for all my portrait shoots. I'm totally an amateur here. I basically just

take really nice pics of my own kids. I've switched to digital, but I want to recapture that Fuji NPH

400 "glow" I usually use PSE6 for mac to do my editiing, but I've recently downloaded the 30 day

trial of lightroom to play with it.

Are there any Fuji NPH portrait like presets to make my digital portraits just as pretty as they were

when I used film?

If I can't do it with lightroom, perhaps there is another software that would do this for me. I just

shopping and playing around trying to get that old feeling back.

Thanks!