red dawn

AFAIK, the UV cut filter has to be on all lenses, at all times, for truly accurate color photography, IR exists in a lot of places, not just under incandescent light. And it shows up in foliage as well, which you have apparently discovered :)

FWIW, (and seriously not that it really concerns us :)) DAH no longer uses the M8 it seems. (maybe it's a loaner / test unit - he did say he was testing it)

 

If u check out his blogs all of his most recent photos, workshops in Italy etc were shot with a D200 with a 20mm lens (check the EXIFs). Some of his students had photos of him at work and play and all showed him with some kind of Nikon SLR (probably the same D200).

 

http://www.davidalanharvey.com

Hi

 

why is it that, according to John, in order for a photograph to be deemed "artistic" and not branded as a casual snapshot, it has to have nudity?

 

If one can't take a good photo of a person clothed and still invoke the emotions necessary for the theme Ray suggested, I doubt a better photograph would have been produced without the clothes.

Hi John

 

you said

 

"...but then again: color film's in its death throes. M8's weird magenta is not as bad as physical damage and poor scans (Fuji, Noritsu) with color film. And where we once had reliable daily E3/E4/E6 and even Kodachrome (yes), that's ancient history. Seems to me that since many photographers have been able to talk themselves into accepting bad lab work, M8 may be more generally acceptable, at least to hobbiests that seem to buy most Leicas, than "reviewers" realize."

 

John, I think hobbiests can sometimes be more picky about image quality than professionals!

 

It does seem to me that there's a number of photographers who are willing to put up with the problems of the M8, including the mandatory use of filters, simply because the M8 is the ONLY digital rangefinder available, and that it's the only high quality "professional" digital rangefinder on the market that allows the use of those high quality M lenses.

 

And in the process they have somehow talked themselves into accepting whatever quality the M8 puts out as the best, even if black is magenta and even if one has to use filters over those same M lenses...

Not that this really matters much, but I do believe all of his new and recent work is done with Nikon digitals - he has switched and you can read about his experiences, and view photos of his recent Africa article last yr with NatGeo here:

 

http://www.nikonnet.com/dyn/articles/article_detail/208.html

 

Still, regardless of what he uses, he is always an inspiration and it's great he has even got online with a blog site to share his knowledge and experience - though I would love to attend one of his workshops..

 

Thanks for the link!

Alex,

 

The magenta problem is not limited to just indoor incandescent light - it's a problem in many common everyday situation.

 

Actually, as others have pointed out, as big the issue it is, it can be solved easily with the use of the proper IR Cut filters. The more insidious problem is this camera's tendency to die or stop working in owners' hands. If you go to the Leica User Forum, you will read about many more issues with the camera - and it's not just the magenta madness.

 

Pros on that forum have resorted to backup equipment or buying *gasp* 2 M8s. Now granted having backup equipment is mandatory for any paid job (or even an expensive trip) but having a camera that u know MIGHT fail at any time is not comforting. I've had my 20D for 2 years, and I never had a failure.

 

This camera is not ready for prime time, and most certainly not reliable professionally until all the issues are ironed out. IMHO, of course....

Hi

 

I had the J3 once - I filled it up with 1 Canon DSLR + grip with 16-35 f2.8L and 70-200 f2.8L, plus a M3 with 50mm and a m6TTL with 35mm, plus flash for both camera systems.

 

As you can see, the J3 is probably too big for a all rangefinder kit. In fact, I was able to store the M6 and the M3 in each of the 2 side padded pockets (one of the nice things about the J series - the padded side pouches) with their respective lens attached.

1.25x magnifier dimming the viewfinder is a bit of a myth. I can hardly notice it.

 

Eye poking dangers are real though. Don't ask me how I know! :P

ys, it's USD.

 

I've been a subscriber and I feel it's small change in exchange for the wealth of knowledge and experience the author provides in his reviews and articles.

Hi

 

the Leica M8 came to the sunny country of Singapore earlier today, at the

official launch of Leica's new products from Photokina 2006. And of course, I

got to touch, use and shoot a bunch of pictures.

 

Interestingly, there were NO restrictions on using your own SD cards to try that

the M8, no Leica reps or salesperson really monitoring us as the people queued

and took turns to fondle, uhmmm i mean use the only M8 available for hands on

during the product launch. A number of people brought their own SD cards and

took full advantage of the generous time we were given with the demo unit. I

don't have any SD cards, but did take a number of shots with a friend's card and

tried out my Summicron 28 f2 on the digital body.

 

Leica also had a on-the-spot printing station for us to print 8 x 10s from

pictures we took with any of the demo units there (the M8, Digilux 3, Vlux,

Dlux3) Also, I was rather surprised Leica had up to 5 pretty models mingling

among the crowd, allowing us to grab shots with and of them. A more lifestyle

approach to marketing, maybe? :)

 

I will not repeat what others have said at length, other than the fact that Sean

(of reidreviews.com) was right on the money in his excellent review of the M8.

It felt every bit like a M, except that it felt (and is) thicker, and not having

owned the MP, I thought the new covering is rather slippery - I prefer the

traditional vulcanite covering. Changing ISO is really painful cumbersome

compared to my Canon DSLRS - and let's not get into exposure compensation!

Thankfully I'm more of a manual mode shooter. But the auto exposures were quite

accurate - no worries about the metering at all.

 

Having been a M shooter for several years, it also felt weird not having to wind

the film. My thumb wanted to do something after every shot.

 

Even on the LCD, I could guess the image quality is going to be very good (I

will of cours be analysing it more once my friend mails me the DNGs from his

card). ISO 2500 is rather worrying though - I can see noise even without

magnifying the image on the LCD - it certainly looks like I will be using it up

to ISO 640 only, falling back on high speed lenses.

 

Speaking of high speed lenses, I'm very pleased with the 28 cron on this baby.

The fingerprint of the lens shows even in digital format - it seems the 28 cron

was made for the M8. It's going to be my primary lens on the M8. (Made up my

mind to get it after today's positive experiences)

 

Some interesting facts I learnt about the M8 today:

 

1) You can turn off the camera and any unfinished images will continue to write

to the card. Canon's DSLRs all do this and this is a very welcome fact.

 

2) You can take off the baseplate, and the camera will still continue to write

images to the card, with a huge warning on the LCD about the baseplate being

off. This is very reassuring - and surely better than accidentally removing a

baseplate off a film M that is halfway through a roll. (ouch!)

 

3) Buffer is not that big; but there are no delays in shooting as even when the

camera is writing images to the card, you can still keep taking photos as soon

as the buffer is cleared.

 

4) shutter noise is quiet and damped - ok not as quiet as a film M but in

practical use I don't think it will be much of an issue. The quiet character of

the M is preserved!

 

5) Having come from the 0.58x viewfinder of my M6TTL, the 0.68x viewfinder is

surprisingly pleasant to use. i wear glasses and I have no problem seeing the

24mm framelines - I can't see much beyond the framelines but being able to see

the widest framelines with good eye relief is very good news to me. I have the

1.25x magnifier, and will be using it when employing lenses 50mm and above.

 

All in all, a very satisfying experience. I didn't eat much of the high tea they

were serving (the launch was at a posh hotel) - the M8 was too distracting! :)

Hi

 

have been using it for a few years... where have u been? :D :)

"The print quality is very bad when you go upper than 400ASA and this is a big disadvantage of all digital cameras"

 

Dimitris, I'm not sure how many digital cameras u've gone through, or if all the digital output u've ever seen are only from Leica point and shoots, but this statement alone shows ur ignorance of current technology and really discredits you from making judgements about digital and film output.

 

For your information, any "cheap" digital SLR now under USD $1k can produce beautiful low noise high ISO files ISO 400 to 1600 (and some, 3200), cleaner than any high ISO film output. I have thousands of dollars on Leica M equipment (many bought new from store) but the simple truth is digital technology is so mature now, the choice between digital and film is no longer that of a technical quality consideration, but a matter of preference.

Peter,

 

if using your Leica lenses on a full frame body is ur main concern, why be concerned about other camera makers? It's obvious Leica does not have the technology nor ability (at the moment) to produce a camera with a full frame digital sensor. We may have to wait a few more years for that ideal M/R digital body.

 

Our only recourse now is to "make do" or live with expensive bodies from Leica with crop factors. Or get the cheaper Epson digital RF bodies with an even bigger crop factor. Or stick our R lenses on Canon's full frame bodies :P

 

Or simply, stick to using film with our M lenses :)

Mark,

 

your understanding is correct, it's ur initial phrasing that is confusing :)

 

To recap, if the batteries die in a m6TTL, you can still use the camera without flash freely, ala batteryless m2, m3, m4s etc.

 

when the batteries die in a m6ttl you lose metering and the ability to fire the flash at all, compared to earlier Ms like the m6 classic or m2/m3/m4s where u can still operate the flash in auto or manual mode.

 

there are other reasons to go for a m6TTL other than the ttl flash. it's newer than m6 classics, which are > 10 yrs old, it has a larger and easier to turn shutter dial (when camera is to the eye), more logical shutter speed dial turning direction (debatable though ;)) improved metering and comes in a choice of 3 viewfinder magnifications (none of which are special expensive editions....)

Super wide angles (wider than 28) on a rangefinder are a compromise. Firstly you do not see the wider perspective through the lens (which can be very useful as say, opposed to a 50mm lens), you have to make do with accessory finders, and when you put on those lens hoods, they do obstruct a part of the viewfinder.

 

However, the one notable "sin" of a wide angle lens on a rangefinder in my opinion is the inability to focus closer than 0.7m. This restricts the use of wide angles on rangefinders in confined spaces or rooms, or in a crowd of people. A 24mm on a SLR like the Leica R is more flexible than a 24mm on a M, for example for photojournalistic work. The ability to focus down to 0.25m using a wide angle lens can produce many interesting shots if juxtaposed with an interesting background.

 

On the upside, the optical quality of those M wide angles are second to no other 35mm camera systems. However, if u're at f8 and hyperfocusing, there really is very little difference....

Hi

 

I have never had a neg cut wrongly by a lab because i failed to inform them i did a mid roll rewind. And i often perform mid roll rewinds.

 

This also applies to film shot with e xpan in panoramic mode. A good pro lab shouldn't need to be told!

 

Anytime a lab cuts ur negs wrongly, it's their fault & it's time to change to a better / pro lab. You paid all that money for a Leica - use a pro lab that knows what they are doing :)

Hi

 

Is this a generation gap problem? For as long as I have been lurking mostly here, I always knew DAH meant David Alan Harvey, e quinessential Leica M "God" who breaks tradition by using Velvia 50 and LOTS of flash with his cheap Vivitar...... Producing ground breaking work on e spanish diaspora with only Leica 28 f2.8, 35 f1.4, 50f1.4, all older Leica variants, no asph watsoever.

 

Until 2005 that is :) Now he has gone digital as well.... Check out e latest article on him - he now shoots with a nikkor 20 f2.8 on a d70 body with nikon strobes (approximating a 28mm fov). And considering a d200...

 

http://www.nikonnet.com/dyn/articles/article_detail/208.html

 

Oh the gearhead! :)

 

DAH is one of my greatest inspiration as a photog - I love his work whether film or digital!!!

Hi

 

I have no problems adapting to either, having a TTL and a m3 (since sold) but I do personally prefer the larger dial - you can turn the dial without taking your eye off the viewfinder and by following the direction of the meter arrows, you know instinctively which way to turn without thinking.

 

With the M3, i often found myself lowering the camera to turn the dial and then raising it back to my eye - i can do it pretty fast, but it is a tad more inconvenient....

Hi

 

u guys need to look at the actual NatGeo magazine. The pictures are just fine, nicely saturated and with colors over the top - it even has pictures with his signature "slow sync flash" style. At first, I didn't know it's digital - I thought it's the usual DAH M6 + 35 f2 cron + Velvia + Vivitar flash work!

 

Only when i flipped to the "On Assignment" page did I realise he's using a Nikon SLR. Still, it wasn't until I see this post that I realised it's all digital. I do agree however that the person who put up those pics on the website is not doing a good job of ensuring they look good on the web!

 

Someone mentioned DAH doesn't use flash. That's incorrect. DAH uses a flash almost all the time. I've 2 videos of him at work and the Vivitar 2800 is almost always mounted and firing away. DAH's signature piece is to me his slow sync flash work - that would not be possible without using flash!

 

I think it's good he's trying to reinvent himself, trying new things, getting to do things better, differently. Contrast his attitude with Leica's own "it's not possible to do a Digital M" mantra just a year back, until Epson / Cosina showed them how to. DAH may been using a digital M today if Leica had a different approach to their work.

Hi John (kelly),

 

not sure if u have used a DSLR before, but getting pleasant OOF is no problem with DSLRs, even for those with smaller sensors. And i have never heard of any DSLR user buying ND filters so that they can work at maximum apertures to get DOF effects.

 

OTOH, I've read plenty about Leica M photographers buying ND filters so that THEY can work at maximum aperture in bright daylight to get shallow DOF, what with the Leica M's max 1/1000 (and often inaccurate) shutter speeds.....

 

PS: I have a M6 with a slew of Leica's ASPH lenses + some older ones and a 20D with Canon's AF lenses. I love both systems.

Hi marc,

 

do u have any samples of the DMR at ISO 800 in low light conditions?

Hi

 

yes the shots have the signature of Marc Williams, but I don't see how one can come to the conclusion that it has the "Leica look", whatever that is supposed to mean, from just a couple of small resized web pics. Marc could have shot them with his M lenses on a RD-1, post them here and says it's from a DMR, and we wouldn't have been wiser :P (not that i'm saying he would do that!)

Hi Erin,

 

The preflash was not developed for digital per se, but already existed back in the film days as a selective flash measurement for selected areas of the scene. The problem was ETTL was weighted too heavily on the selected AF points.

 

Happily the recent Canon models no longer have this issue (starting from the 10D, and especially with the ETTL2 models like the 20D, 350D, 1dmk2, 1dsmk2 etc) with ETTL flash - you can still employ older flash units like the 420ex and 550ex to enjoy ETTL2 benefits.

 

I'm quite shocked that Leica did not find a solution to the TTL flash problem for the DMR, considering its price!

Hi harry,

 

did u actually click on the link? it helps, cos then u will realise the test wasn't done by the owner of the site, but by the pple in the forum he runs...

Hi

 

my experience with digital has been that it always has more shadow detail compared to film. Even when files are heavily underexposed, it's always amazing to me how much detail Photoshop can pull out of the shadows.

 

It's the highlights that digital can run into some problems.....

 

that's why DSLRs are so good in the dark - u can run clean high ISO files and still "see" in the dark better...