nateseff

On 2/3/2023 at 9:43 PM, kmac said:

The video clip is a great help. We can see that the shutter is firing healthy enough, but you really should send it back to the repairer to have that 1/250sec fixed under warranty.

If you decide to have a go at it yourself, only disassemble as far as the speed selector (leave it on) and dribble a few drops of lighter fluid, through the speed selector, onto the moving parts of the shutter. This will briefly lubricate the moving parts and if there was too much dry friction before, the parts should move more freely and possibly get that 1/250sec working properly. If not, you'll need to search for something more seriously wrong that relates to just that one specific speed.

 

unfortunately i can't take it back anymore for a better repair, however, after watching a mat 124g repair video I'm wondering - is it something that might be causing the blades to stick together? If it were a gear problem, the shutter wouldn't 'fire' right? Which it does every time, just doesn't actually open the blades every time.

It would be great to just have to get into the lens/shutter assembly and see if I can clean the blades - unless of course what's causing it to stick is where they all converge - then I would have to take it fully apart which, i would try to avoid if possible lol. once we get there it's a bit out of my wheelhouse 

On 11/18/2022 at 9:30 AM, rodeo_joe1 said:

Some shutter designs bump up the spring tension on the top-most speed. This is easily felt on some old Compur shutters, where the cocking action is decidedly stiffer on the top speed, as an auxilliary spring is engaged. 

Having said that, I've never worked on a Yashica TLR shutter, but it wouldn't surprise me if a broken or displaced spring was the culprit.

I did have a similar issue with a Mamiya 645 70mm leaf-shutter lens - great optics, awful Seiko shutter. That not only had oily blades but because of the sticking a spring had torn itself off its mounting post. A fairly simple repair once I located where the dangling spring had come from. (Look for a grooved post with nothing in the groove.)

Good luck getting into the shutter!

Thank you! It is somewhat comforting to know what to be looking for now. definitely feel like i wont be going in blind at least haha. if it is a broken spring or tooth, not sure what i can do but if it's just somehow off it's mount/post and displaced, then that'd be ideal and can be fixed. i dont have many extra parts laying around and definitely am not one that can fabricate any sort of parts so if it's something that's broken, guess im SOL...

As for the medalist, the spring tension is bumped up by a little turning knob that puts additional pressure on the spring. that's what leads me to believe the shutter actuation completely finishes before the blades can even open as if they were stuck. was actually trying that same shutter earlier today and it wouldn't even fire on other slower speeds, giving me a half 'click' sound until finally it "unlocked' itself at 1/200 and after that everything was firing again.

On 11/18/2022 at 4:48 AM, kmac said:

Tricky one!

Oil on the blades usually affects all speeds. If all the oil is cleaned off and the blades are then dry, any faulty speeds after that would more likely be caused by a mechanical problem with just those speeds or just one speed, as you said, it's the 1/250 in your Yashica. It sounds to me like there is a spring loaded part that's not catching the pin on the cam ring that actuates the blades when the shutter is fired. When I repair shutters, I work them and stare at them for hours on end watching what every lever and spring does. The fault hits me in the eye after a while. I did one the other night and the fault was damaged teeth on a quadrant gear hidden under a screwed down plate. That gear is part of the speed selection mechanism and determines the speed of each selection. Needless to say, the shutter is now useless except for the two highest speeds, and that's only because the gear is working on the remaining good teeth, 3 out of a total of about 9 teeth. I'll still use the camera, albeit with only two speeds, because it's very rare and finding another shutter for it might be near impossible.

This is probably what's going on with the Yashica. I've given up on the medalist - until i found another one the other day for a great parts price and ended up pulling the trigger. the body was destroyed but somehow the shutter seems intact! switched them out and it looks like i MIGHT have a working medalist. finally. fingers crossed though waiting for my film to arrive next week to test it out fully.

As for the yashica, there's a good chance it could be something like that. in fact, im pretty positive since it's so finicky and it does seem to happen every other like 5 fires, which could make sense that it's a teeth issue. will i tear apart another to make this one work? good chance no, but im going to open it up regardless to see since i've already paid for a bad repair job. definitely won't buy another one - maybe i should just stick with the mat 124g. such a shame.

Here's a clip of it dry firing, you can see how intermittent the blades are with the shutter actuation - 

On 11/17/2022 at 11:48 PM, John Seaman said:

Thanks for the clarification. To be honest, your responses make it clear to me that you have much more knowledge and competence on fixing cameras than I will ever have!

Probably not at all hahaha only reason why im fairly confident about the medalist diagnosis is because ive just about read everything i can and have watched every repair vid out there for it trying to get it to work again. it's my dream camera, 6x9 + durable design (apparently not this particular shutter though!)

and apologies for the late reply, i got locked out awhile back and didnt find the reset email until today. 

On 11/17/2022 at 4:20 PM, c_watson1 said:

With respect, it's a 50+ year-old camera that wasn't exactly a top-shelf model. Finding a tech in 2022 capable of a repair isn't easy or cheap. If it's 6x6 you like, you might look into newer gear rather than nursing vintage gear back to health.

But nursing vintage gear back to health is why we're here! jk I definitely understand what you mean, probably would've saved a lot of money in the long run if i went this route but as someone who has a working mat 124g, i'd choose this over it time and time again if it worked properly. too much plastic in the new one.

And agreed, it's pretty tough to find people who can service things properly especially for these older less known models. this, thankfully, shares most of the same design as the mat 124g so i was thinking it'd be straightforward. apparently not.

Also apologies for the late reply, i got locked out awhile back and was just searching through my email today and saw photo.net did indeed send me a reset email.

14 hours ago, John Seaman said:

Not sure what you mean by this. I'd be surprised if sticky blades are responsible, they are usually more obvious at slow speeds. When you say 1/250 doesn't work now and again, do you mean that the blades don't open, or that nothing happens at all?

I agree with Niels that the person who did the CLA should fix it, but who knows, it might just come back with the same or another problem. The tech might not even have realised there was an issue as it's of an intermittent nature. Sometimes with old cameras, issues have to be accepted and worked around.

Yea I might just need to never use 1/400 since all the other speeds seem to work without issue now.

Originally when the Medalist came back to me, the shutter blades were COVERED in oil and would open slowly on most speeds and after a few fires, would work up to 1/200 (sometimes the blades wouldn't close all the way on slower speeds), but either wouldn't open at all for 1/400 OR open once or twice after those first few dry fires, and then lock up again.

That's what led me to believe that the oil on the blades was causing the issue, so went into it and cleaned them up (other than the inner most assembly). I ended up taking the whole thing apart and it took me days to get it back together the right way.

Once all the oil was out, ALL of the speeds worked for about two days every time I dry fired it. Finally, the day I took it out to shoot, the first dry fire at 1/400 the blades didn't open again, but after that it started firing again.

To clarify, all of the actions/springs work - you can hear them all working every dry fire, and I could see them work when I had the shutter opened up. For whatever reason though, sometimes the blades just won't open on 1/400 even though everything sounds like it's working when it fires.

So back to the Yashica - this seems like almost the exact same problem just on a different speed, and looks like there's no oil on it compared to the Medalist. The Yashica also sounds like everything works inside as you wind and cock it, but then when you fire the shutter the blades don't open only for that speed. 

14 hours ago, NHSN said:

If you paid good money for a CLA, the tech didn't deliver and should fix the problem at no extra charge.

It is not always possible to make old shutters to work fully within specs of for example 1/3 +/- of the speeds printed on the dial, but the tech should be aware of deviations from specs and inform you accordingly if he/she cant meet the specs on certain speeds.

I should add that during the Corona years I have sent around 10 jobs out for overhauls to reputable  repair techs around EU and 40% had to be returned for further work. Everyone makes mistakes now and then, and I never paid to have them fixing their own problems - of course.

Good to know about that repair success rate - I'll definitely keep that in mind for future repairs should things go south.

I've had a few cameras repaired by this guy that have come back fine, he also helped with my Minolta Super A which no one else could.

It's a shame because the last few cameras (including the Kodak Medalist) I took to him were fixed about 95% of the way, but there was always just one thing off. He fixed my Rolleiflex and my Retina IIa and haven't (knock on wood) had any issues with them yet. There's definitely no chance he'd work on it again to fix for free, unfortunately it's not that type of repair shop.

If it were a well known, reputable repair guy then yes I would 100000% send it back but that won't be the case here.

I can get into the shutter and mechanics for the Yashica I might be able to fix it if there's a common issue with leaf shutters like this, I've actually fixed my Mat 124g before but it just needed some lubrication in a few spots once it was opened up.

I just want to know if there could be another cause for the shutter failing to open on ONLY that speed and possibly 1/500th? Have had no issues on slower speeds.

For the Medalist, it came back to me with a lot of oil on the shutter blades which is unfortunate, because extensive research has told me Supermatic no.2 shutters should always run dry. After I cleaned it up AFTER the repair, the shutter would always fire but the blades wouldn't always open up. I'd have to dry fire it a couple of times and then it started working on all speeds EXCEPT for 1/400th, where it would fire 2-3 times then just stop opening but you could hear the springs working.

Since I've opened up the shutter all the way down to the blade assembly (couldn't get in farther because of a stuck screw), I can see that everything with the spring/functions that make 1/400th fire working, just the blades sometimes won't open for one reason or another. Once I cleaned the oil away, it fired every time for about 2 days then when it got cold, it stuck again on the first first but then opened for each shutter press after that.

The ONLY thing that makes sense to me is that there's something on the shutter blades themselves that prevent them from opening just long enough for the entirety of the spring actuation. But on all the other speeds it's just long enough to unstick itself and open - so it seems.

Hi all,

Thanks for any help in advance.

I've acquired a Yashica 12 that was locked up, took it to be serviced, and now everything works minus 1/250th every now and again.

I've had a similar issue with my Kodak Medalist at 1/400th, and nearly fixed the issue by removing the oil that was stuck on the shutter blades.

Is this what's happening to my Yashica 12? I guess the better question would be, why do some leaf shutters simply not fire at higher shutter speeds? Is it because the blades are stuck for the duration of the spring movement?

Looking forward to what everyone has to say - definitely not hoping to pay for another CLA. 

As I noted above, the SMC Takumars are designed to do this (i.e., switch locked in "A" position when off camera, or mounted on the F/ES/ES II bodies). This is normal operation for these lenses, which were designed for open-aperture metering with these particular cameras.

 

That tiny extra pin should spring back if you press it with your fingernail or tip of a pencil. When it's pressed in, then you should be able to slide the A/M switch back and forth freely; when released, the A/M switch will lock in the "A" position again. If it doesn't, then either the pin is stuck or something is broken inside.

It's probably stuck/broken in the pressed in position. I guess I'll have to let it be then, I definitely don't want to have to open it up if the piece can just sit 'freely' inside of the lens without issue.

The switch can't really be "forced", unless the internal aperture mechanism has first become ceased or half ceased causing excessive resistance when manipulating the switch. Normally it switches from "A" to "M" with moderate resistance, but that's how it's meant to be. There will be indent "locks" at each extremity, and it's possibly the indent locking part has broken or something has slipped out of place. As well as the indents, the mechanism provides a lock in "M" mode.

 

In "M" mode, the chrome pin gets locked in position for manual operation. In "A" mode, the pin is at the other extremity and is free to move radially for the camera to automatically move it to the designated aperture setting when the shutter fires.

 

Off the camera, the pin should be locked in "M" mode (aperture settings done by hand). In "A" mode, the pin should move freely and if you move the pin by hand you should get movement of the aperture blades

 

It will be no different when the lens is on the camera. When set on "M", you use the aperture ring. When set on "A", the camera will move the pin.

 

Are you sure you've checked the lens properly ? It sounds like it's working fine and you've just mistaken the "A" setting as a "locked pin" setting when in actual fact the pin is supposed to move radially about a 1/4"

This might apply to an older Takumar lens, I'm looking at it right now and as m42dave has posted it does have that little extra pin. That being said, when I move the switch off camera, it does go in and out (ever so slightly). So is it even broken? How come the switch wouldn't work off camera at first without forcing it if it still works after? Maybe it was jammed/stuck? But if that's the case then that goes against everything I know about the M - A switch on m42 lenses. Thinking maybe the pin's bent or something (if that's what it is inside) and then I suppose I won't need to open it up to take any broken pieces out. I just checked all apertures as well using B on Auto mode and everything works as it should. On manual mode everything opens and closes as it should both on and off the camera.

Here is a disassembly guide for the SMC Takumar 35.3.5, which should be similar to your lens (the SMC lenses do have the extra little pin on the mount which keeps the A/M switch in the "A" position on the Spotmatic F, ES, and ES II).

 

Takumar Super Multi Coated 35/3.5 disassembly

Thank you this is a great reference to have...unfortunately it doesn’t go into detail with th switch mechanism but definitely good to have in case I do need to open it up

I haven'T any idea what material or how it'S broken..and here'S the kicker ..if at all!! If it'S not broke....

 

I am a frantic person too.... and simply knowing it'S not 100% drives me crazy...but you are likely to have a bigger problem trying to figure out what'S wrong rather than accepting the situation. It works on the camera...where it needs to work!! IT'S NOT BROKEN. Bring this behind me Satan!

Drives me 10000% crazy as well aha hoping it’s not broken. Thankfully it’s a lens I could somewhat easily replace down the line but optically it’s very clean and cosmetically it doesn’t have any scratches or dings so I don’t wanna have to go searching again for one as good as this one.

Then it should like my lens above. It's possible that the little extra pin I show is stuck (pressed in) or damaged. If the pin won't free up, and you forced the A/M switch, then you may need to remove the mount and see if the interlock is broken or can be re-adjusted. However, if the diaphragm otherwise works as it should, then the switch interlock feature really isn't needed if you aren't using one of the later Spotmatics.

 

And please be careful while driving. :)

Haha noted! And everything still works, all apertures etc. the ONLY thing it won’t do is lock off camera in A anymore. I’m just hoping it isn’t a piece that can get lodged somewhere in the lens and cause a huge issue.

Hi guys,

So being the frantic person I am, I forced the A and M switch on my Super Takumar 28mm f3.5 lens (otherwise in immaculate condition) and now it doesn’t stay locked in A when off a camera body.

It works as it should on my Spotmatic, whether in M or A (aperture closes when shot). My question is this - what exactly did I break in the lens mechanism that prevents it from switching when not on a body? Is it worth taking apart to fix? I’m wondering if it’s a piece of metal that I bent or if it’s a plastic tab (if so, would it affect anything or should I remove it?)

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thank you

Did you check the bellows for pinholes?

 

And was the sun out while you were carrying the camera around?

Yes and didnt see any from what I could immediately tell. The sun was definitely out but it wasn't too strong, I think it was just enough to creep into the back though if that's what it is.

...nothing should be wobbly, not the back nor any part of the revolving adaptor. The latches on yours looks OK, here's mine for comparison.[ATTACH=full]1294618[/ATTACH] You shouldn't need to hammer anything.

Thanks for sending. So yes it wobbles EVER so slightly. Like definitely to the point where you wouldn't think it's letting in anything - that being said, I'm shooting half taped and half without to see if it is indeed because of that. Will post when I get the film back.

...I think incorrect loading would primarily effect the start of the film - and that's not happening. Latching - maybe. I think I'd be inclined to test light tightness around the back and revolving adaptor without taking a photo. Load film and leave the camera in strong sunlight for a while. Advance the frame, remove the dark slide and repeat. Obviously don't tape the back. You're making some progress and that's good.

Someone pointed out that if the back is ever so slightly wobbly (and it is, EVER so slightly), that it may be the latches securing the film back may have been slightly bent somehow. They said that I could take that part off and hammer the part flat, but they look slightly bent on each one so I'm not entirely sure if they should look like that or not. Does anyone else have a back that wobbles a bit? It's just not 1000000% secure, but the wobble isn't bad. It just rocks less than a mm back and forth, if that. If someone could post a pic of the metal latches that attach the back, that would be awesome!

UPDATE: I just received my roll back from having the tape around the back (not the best tape-job, but results came out clean!). Now it looks like I'm gonna have to shoot half the roll with tape and half without, to make sure it wasnt just a loading mistake. Here's a couple from that roll (did not change orientation as well, since it was taped I could not rotate it. Everything was shot portrait-wise).

Remove the rotating adapter, and post careful photos of both sides of the revolving adapter, and the rear of the body.

Put em up earlier and just shot another roll with some tape around the back. We’ll see if that does anything.

The moment we've all been waiting for

Back of camera

Here are some pictures of the rotating adapter.

Just to set your mind at ease, yes this "bent tip" on a couple blades of a leaf shutter is normal. At some point, most of the pro medium format camera mfrs adopted bent tips as a means of reducing potential shutter blade jams (presumably this happened enough times to warrant the change, but I've never experienced it myself nor heard any reports of it). It can be confusing when you have a camera system thats been around for decades: earlier lenses may not have the bent tip, but some do (perhaps after a repair service bulletin). Newer lenses usually have a bent tip, but some don't (which really throws things off). Overall, it doesn't matter one way or the other: leaf shutters all eventually need repair or lubrication, so its not like bent tips are a magic bullet or unbent tips are inferior. The K/L lenses for RB are superb.

 

This is the most intriguing, unique "leak-like" defect posted here in awhile. Hope you solve it soon, and let us know the cause. Good luck!

Lucky and unlucky me then, aha. And okay good, thank you for confirming. So it looks like (hopefully) it has to do with either the film or the back, and I wont be able to get the film until next week so stay tuned...will continue to post as I find out more.

Thanks for all of the feedback guys.