tobyyee

Fred, that's true, in that case, we need more bottles

Sandy, we have a lot of good champagne in California, you should try sometimes.

Michael M., Mm...you mean I was drinking too much, sorry, I don't drink when I am working.

Nice photography collection. I like it.

Thanks

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William Michael

In 2017: Probably dual card slots and sometimes a better AF, if the manufacturer offers such at all. +(Outside the wedding forum!) A chance to get repairs done quickly and rentals / loaners. A while back it was how much the user interface got into one's way. The rest is fluent. - If I look at Leica M in history, I reply "None!" since the M2 was made to be cheaper than an M3 and very popular among professionals for a while.

The discussion is futile. - There are enough folks making their living with crude or ancient gear. Unprofessional starts where you risk not getting your job done.

Jochen, I am a simple person, if you want to proof me wrong, show me the good work of yours, better than tell me how expensive your equipment are or making "good speech" to tell everyone, by the way, I talk about technique here and I never ask about equipment, I think you are a smart person, you should know the reason.( I am wrong,)

ok, time is up, I encourage you to proof me wrong about you by showing your work, otherwise you are just a kid playing toys and .......

Remember your work should not be a Photoshop work, the subject should be wine glasses, if you can do better than me, SHOW me SHOW it to everyone. Don't be shy!

Moderator note:

Be careful "tobyyee".

You DID ask a question about equipment and it was answered.

This subsequent response of yours appears aggressive, personal and provocative which are traits of baiting and trolling.

Such are NOT allowed on this forum.

:

I know this is a somewhat bad play on words, but based on the image above you seem a little out of your... depth. Puns aside, I mean depth of field, of course. If the point of this image is to ONLY get their names, then fine. If you're trying to get the date as well (and why wouldn't you?) then you missed. If you really want to use a narrow depth of field you have to know how close to the subject you can get before you start to lose the kind of depth you're looking for. 1.2 when you're four feet away is much different than 1.2 when you're twenty feet away.

 

Like any tool, its capabilities are only utilized properly when the user knows how to use it. I highly recommend doing some reading up on depth of field, as well as general photographic technique for low-light shooting.

 

It is vital to fully understand depth of field and how distance, in addition to aperture, both play into getting the proper focus.

 

To second what others have said here, the proper "technique" for capturing any moment depends on your technical understanding of the equipment you are using. Once you have that, and I mean *really* have it, only then can you approach the logistics of capturing certain moments through anticipation and knowledge of your environment and logistics.

Michael, I am glad, one of the master comments me. Thank you.

Yes, as a professional photographer, I did it purposely.

First, what is this year? 2017, right? Why should I showed a photo which dated on 2009 in 2017? The answer is simple, It was my second time to shoot for my clients.

It was their anniversary, so the date wasn't important, their name was important.

Second, the Lighting was so great, I didn't want to miss it, as I shot this photo last year. In order to distinguish the pictures I took for them years ago. I only focused on the names not the date.

Third, that wasn't a low light shooting, quite opposite, it was a strong light shooting.

Ha.. Michael, you are testing me, aren't you?

It was a simple shoot f2.8 without ANY flash on the subjects.

Michael, you knew it, didn't you.?

Michael, I just want to show WW a sample, to satisfy his curiosity about my work.

You are absolutely Right, the proper technique for capturing any moment depends on my technical understanding.....

I 100% support what you are saying.

If you can, show me some work of yours similar to the picture here.

Thanks....

I have a 2nd, and I don't intend to replace him.

That's ok, just asking.

I know this is a somewhat bad play on words, but based on the image above you seem a little out of your... depth. Puns aside, I mean depth of field, of course. If the point of this image is to ONLY get their names, then fine. If you're trying to get the date as well (and why wouldn't you?) then you missed. If you really want to use a narrow depth of field you have to know how close to the subject you can get before you start to lose the kind of depth you're looking for. 1.2 when you're four feet away is much different than 1.2 when you're twenty feet away.

 

Like any tool, its capabilities are only utilized properly when the user knows how to use it. I highly recommend doing some reading up on depth of field, as well as general photographic technique for low-light shooting.

 

It is vital to fully understand depth of field and how distance, in addition to aperture, both play into getting the proper focus.

 

To second what others have said here, the proper "technique" for capturing any moment depends on your technical understanding of the equipment you are using. Once you have that, and I mean *really* have it, only then can you approach the logistics of capturing certain moments through anticipation and knowledge of your environment and logistics.

I am glad, one of the master comments me.Thanks.

So why did you mention those lenses in the intro? - I understand f1.2 on MFT, since that lens must be stunning and appears handy to compensate for the format's disadvantages or on Fuji, where there was no alternative. But why get f1.2 for anything else?

Good luck with getting your example picture uploaded.

So why did you mention those lenses in the intro? - I understand f1.2 on MFT, since that lens must be stunning and appears handy to compensate for the format's disadvantages or on Fuji, where there was no alternative. But why get f1.2 for anything else?

Good luck with getting your example picture uploaded.

Jochen, it is simple, as I have mentioned earlier, it was only AN EXAMPLE of suggestions I got from others photographer years ago. Since you have no experience in shooting wedding, so I can only talk to you with something you know(I think I am wrong). I posted the question to talk about the Best Techniques, not talk about how to use lens or how to use the body of different cameras. Are there any alternative? I believe it is your responsibility to find them out, not me. Remember, I am not your mentor or your teacher or your master. I have no responsibility to you everything. I only can give you some advice or ask you some questions. If you like it, take it. If you don't like it, ignore it.

F1.2, 1/100, and ISO 200 are basic numbers in photography. Most of the photographer talk about photos by telling those numbers, so do I.

Only ONE question for you, ONLY YOU(other readers do not need to answer)

What is the difference between professional camera and entry level camera?

You don't have to reply me to tell me the answer. Don't worry, you can find it on line.

Since you are using entry level camera, I believe you still have a long road to learn. Happy learning!!!

Sorry not that one, but I will share one simple picture that most of the photographer will miss. I didn't do any Photoshop work to the pic. Just simply contrast, brighter the image.

Sorry, I have experienced a little problem here

OK, here is the picture

e

Moderator Note: The BB Code has been corrected to display the image identified by the unique image number embedded in the wrong BB code that was used.

tobyyee: please advise if this is the image that you intended to display

I would show your unique picture Bride on the dance floor, to all the membership here.

 

I am sure that there are many who would like to see it.

 

You are really not sharing any secret, without showing the picture that no one else could make.

 

WW

Sorry not that one, but I will share one simple picture that most of the photographer will miss. I didn't do any Photoshop work to the pic. Just simply contrast, brighter the image.

Sorry, I have experienced a little problem here

OK, here goes . . .

 

I know it is not always possible, but when I've shot weddings, I like to go to the rehearsal, just so that I KNOW what to expect.

Because, what they put on paper is not always how things are actually executed. And I HATE surprises, because they are usually bad.

 

Some churches have restrictions on where you can go and if you can or cannot use a flash. Do you KNOW if there is a restriction on you?

• When the church puts a NO FLASH restriction on you, then fast glass and/or high ISO comes into the picture. And you better know this in advance, to plan for it. I've seen where the priest stops the ceremony, and tells the photographer to STOP taking (flash) pictures.
  

Where can you go in the church to get what shots, and how do you get there?

 

One comment I've had to make during several rehearsals, was for the girls to space their walk down the aisle, so they were not right on top of each other at the front of the church where I am shooting. Sometimes the wedding coordinator lets them go too fast/close together. This usually happens when a friend is the coordinator, rather than a pro.

• Wait till the girl before you is half way down the aisle, THEN start walking, and maintain spacing even if you have to slow down or stop.
  

This has to be adjusted for the size of the church. In very small churches (or homes), they may have to wait till the girl in front is at the front of the church, to get a decent spacing.

 

What I found difficult is the reception.

• This is because there is usually no rehearsal for the reception. At least I've never seen a rehearsal for a reception.
  And unless they have a good wedding coordinator, sometimes the decisions are done on the spot, which does nothing to help you plan.
  
  • Get the script and cross your fingers that they stick to the script.
     
    
  • Will there be a "walk in"/procession, when will it happen, where will it come from?
    
  • Any special/surprise guests or events? You better know this to prepare for it, or you may miss it.
     
    
  • etc.
    

  [*]You have to be ready for the gag that the best man or maid of honor will sometimes pull. It can be over in seconds. The one I did for my friend's wedding, it was over in less than 2 seconds. Are you prepared to "capture that moment?" It is not about equipment, it is about being ready to get the shot.

   

  [*]Certain activities like cake cutting, YOU have to get involved, to get the couple to stand at the right place and angle to give YOU the shot. And don't let one of the relatives push you out of position. This is one of the mandatory shots, so get it right.

   

  [*]Then there is the unexpected shoving of the cake into the spouse's face, which I had the unfortunate experience to see happen. Many people teasingly call for it, but when it actually happens, it is a SHOCK. I get the money shot of the cake just BEFORE it gets to the face, just in case. Then the 2nd shot of the cake in the mouth. BTW, can your flash recycle fast enough for those 2 shots, probably 1 sec recycle ?

   

  [*]If they want pix of specific people, they NEED to assign someone to tell you who is who, and that person needs to stick with you, until you get everyone on that list. Stress to them that if you do not have that person with you at the reception, they will NOT get pix of their list of people. And that requirement should be in your contract.

   

  [*]Garter and bouquet toss.

  • There are 3 shots to choose from; the toss, the bouquet/garter in the air, the catch/scramble. Which one will YOU shoot? If you try for 2 or all 3 shots, will your flash recycle fast enough? We are talking sub-1 sec recycle times to do it. If your flash won't recycle fast enough, you are backed into choosing ONE of the 3 shots.
     
    
  • The only sure shot is the toss. Because if the bouquet/garter lands short (which I've seen happen several times), there is no catch to shoot.
     
    
  • So again, which one will YOU shoot? And is your client in agreement?
     
    
  • Are you going to use AF or manual focus? If you use AF, the bouquet in the air will likely be out of focus, unless your camera's AF can track it ... but will it? I have my doubts.
    
  • This is where having a 2nd photographer really comes into play; one shoots the toss, the other shoots the catch/scramble.
    

  [*]FOOD

  • In spite of planning and what your contract may say, you may not be able to sit down and eat the dinner, or maybe only part of the dinner.
     
    
  • The list of shots to be taken have priority over your stomach, and may have you almost constantly on the move.
     
    
  • Bring an easy and fast to eat snack, to keep you going, and snack when you can.
    

Other.

• Formals.
  
  • You and the couple need to have an agreement IN ADVANCE of when and where the formals will be shot. And that has to be integrated into the day's schedule.
    
    • I've seen last minute formals, and they were all a mess trying to round everyone up.
      

    [*]They NEED to have someone assigned in advance, to round up everyone for the formal pictures.

     

    [*]And everyone in the formals need to be told IN ADVANCE to be there for the formals, and reminded on that day, and not to wander off some place else.

    • I've seen where uncle X could not be found, because he already left the church for the reception.
      

    [*]Again, it is the client's responsibility to get everyone in the formals to be at the place and time of the formals.

    If the people are not there, there isn't anything you can do about it. You just shoot the formals without them.

    This should be in your contract.

  [*]Equipment

  • Do NOT leave your equipment unattended. I've seen camera cases loaded with $$$$$ gear, sitting unattended at a wedding, with the photographer on the other side of the room or in another room. I've read of pros having their gear being stolen at weddings, by thiefs watching for just this opportunity. It takes less than a minute to grab the cases and be out the door. If that happens, the memory cards had better be in your pocket, or you just lost the wedding, and I hope your gear is insured.
    

Note that there is very little about equipment, it is almost all about planning.

Gary,t thanks the sharing.

I do know there are rules and regulations in most of the churches and temples, especially in SF, if you can master the Lighting problem in city hall of SF, you probably find yourself in the front door of advance level of outdoor photography.

If you need second shooter for your wedding, I am happy to give you a hand, as I living in Hayward.

You gave no offense.

 

 

 

I think that there is a misunderstanding about the words that I used.

 

Let me answer another way - if there is very bad light or very good light or if we cannot control the light or if we can control the light then in all these situations we still need to be in the best possible camera position and we need to wait for the best possible moment to release the shutter. This in my opinion is the essence of “capturing the moment”.

 

Of course we must be prepared to shoot in any lighting condition and always strive to do our best. And for poor lighting situations we must be versed in the use of Flash and also we must have fast lenses and cameras with high ISO capacity and we must have good camera holding techniques and good Post Production techniques - - - but we still must get the best possible camera position and the best possible lighting.

 

***

 

 

 

What you are describing (or what I think that you are describing) is about the Photographer’s “Style”.

 

All of these photos were made in very poor light, with no Flash and with fast Prime Lenses, probably used wide open and very high ISO:

 

*

*

*

 

Note that each example displays a somewhat different “photographic style”:

 

I think that this is what you are asking about: “What are the techniques for a new “style” that will capture a new page for the modern photography and how that different style will set you apart from other Wedding Photographers.”

 

That’s a very interesting and also a very difficult question. As you can see by a couple of those samples, style can change as the years progress.

 

For me, “style” has been a balance of my development and learning and also as responses to conversations with Clients and their requirements.

 

And as my style changed, so did my emphasis on the use of various tools – for example, I personally used Flash less often – BUT I did not ever stop using Flash; also I returned to using mainly Prime Lenses – but I did not discard my Zoom Lenses.

 

The Montage "style", based upon "Picture Stories" was a big diversion in my photographic style and in many ways was more demanding. I remain indebted to Neil Ambrose for his Master Lesson on this Style - you may research that here {LINK}

 

Now, my most used camera is a Fuji X100s for mostly all of my Portraiture work.

 

Importantly though, in each shot that I make: I still endeavour to get the best possible camera position that I can and wait for the best moment to release the shutter.

 

I hope that better explains my response to your question.

 

WW

Wow... I am impressed.

But the pictures you showed me isn`t what I am looking for. As you are so passionate about shooting pictures. I share a little secret with you.

Style, yes, I have created a style, I called it Yee_Style. A style when everyone see the picture will know I am the one created it. I am still thinking how, when, where, what, but i still have no idea what to do. I was thinking about joining the competition of wppi, but after I saw the winning photo of the wedding journalism, I felt that the picture I shot is too big to show in wppi. I can tell you, I have gone through a lot of pictures and I have found none like the one I shot. If you were me, what would you do?

Sounds a little crazy! How that possible? Thousands of thousands photographer in the world, and nobody did it, except me. Is it possible?

It is a dance floor moment, the Bride is dancing for only 1 minute, the main light was turned down, you can barely saw the Bride, what can you do? Wait for the light to come back on, or use your camera to capture the most nature moments of her.

Capture the moments of dancing people, you can find videos on YouTube to teach you how to shoot. I give you time to think about situation like this. If you can, show me the best pictures you had under a very dark situation.

What is the definition of technique in photography? I will say using the best known knowledge to capture the subject with good flash gun skills. I believe a lot of people can take pictures under sunny day, even an iPhone can do it, but not in a dark condition.

Don't worry, the style I am using will not set me apart from others wedding photographer, I am just a wedding photographer with a special technique.

"Prime" practice is a holdover from the Mamiya|Pentax|Hassy days when primes are what we had to work with! Fast lenses (and most of the common MF primes were not particularly) was more of a consideration when color film speeds were slow also. Plus the whole "wide open" large aperture sort of thing was a big deal when wedding shots favored soft focus, dewy looking, fat bokeh images laid down on linen finish prints.

Papa tango, thanks for your sharing.:)

I don't agree. I admittedly haven't dabbled with f1.2 lenses on my Canon, but to put things simple:

• Freaking fast lenses wide open at high ISO are hard to focus. Struggling with your focusing to get at least one eye into focus once in a while during spray and pray is the opposite of what I'd call nailing moments.
  
• f1.2 without OIS / IBIS is still a huge waste of light. What shutter speed does it take you to handhold a 85mm f1.2? - 1/250sec? Or sis something shorter the safer bet? Another guy looses 1 stop with his stabilized f1.8 lens but might get along with 1/60 sec. - So why ditch the f2.8 zoom at all?
  

If you bring flash, why not use it? Set it to gain f8 with your 35mm, zone focus, get close, shoot from the hip or raise your camera frame and nail whatever you want instantly.

FTR: I don't do weddings. Shooting participants of social events I discovered: If you frame 2 or 3 people folks looking at your images appreciate all of them being in focus. f1.2 is the last thing to provide that.

Jochen, thanks for sharing your experiences.

Just my idea, I don't do f1.2 for people, I usually use f 2.8 for single,f4.0 for couples, f5.0 for 4 or 5 ....., There's a tricky part about flash gun, as you are using canon, you should know the difference between 430, 580, 600, and other non canon flash gun, if you have a lot of budget to buy expensive equipment, you just need to understand your flash gun at least 80%, but if you don't have a lot of M, it is a good thing to use non canon flash to help you do the shooting. Also, better use flash diffuser, it is good for your subject,eg. Gary Fong

As Gary said, know the schedule of the event. Know the key players beyond the B&G -- memorize important faces, and be sure they are included. Familiarize yourself with the list of key shots that are in common usage, then go beyond. Be as unobtrusive (past the formal shots) as possible -- it is their big event. Have affection for the customers and party even if difficult -- it will show in your results. It should go without saying that before you attempt a Wedding your photographic skills are very good. No do overs.

Good saying, Have affection for the customers.

Thanks for sharing.:)

"KNOW the event, and where to be."

 

Precisely.

 

***

 

Using fast Prime Lenses, High ISO, Photoshop and other computer programmes are (broadly speaking) "workflow" techniques.

 

To "capture a moments", which is what you asked, the main issue is to be in the right place (i.e. have the correct/best camera position for the Subject(s) and the Lighting on them) and then to release the shutter at the correct/best time to capture and illustrate "the moment" in a photograph.

 

To do this you need to have a.prediction of what will happen and when it will happen: this prediction will come from experience and "knowing the event" and also knowing the people. The latter point is why I encourage (and practiced) at the least, one pre-wedding meeting with the Clients: and Engagement Shoot assists greatly in getting to know the people.

 

The primary "technique" of being in the bright place at the right time and releasing the shutter at the critical moment is not a technique which is unique to Wedding Photography. Wedding Photography is not a special case, any photography which involves humans as the Subject (i.e. broadly catergorized as "portraiture") and including but not limited to genres such as: Sport; Street; Studio Portraiture; Social Events etc., all require the same main technique to capture the moment. Also this technique applies to other genres, for example making images of animals.

 

If you want to be good Wedding Photographer, I'd encourage you to think about all the aspects of Wedding Photography - the camera gear and the post production are a very small part of the whole.

 

WW

WW, the reason I ask about the technique is I have already assumed the person who can answer my question is in the advance level of photography.

You are right , having the subjects under the right Lighting and in the right place is a very secure way to shoot pictures. But if the couples is right under a bad Lighting and in a very dark place, we should give up the chances to shoot for them, shouldn't we?

I don't mean to offend you by asking you a question like this. On the other hand, I really appreciate what you have said to me. It is an valuable comment to me.

Toby Yee is a very tiny tiny .... Name in the world of wedding photography. If you want me choose to become a good wedding photographer, I rather choose to become a photographer who can capture a new page for the modern photography.

KNOW the event, and where to be.

Knowing the gear but not the event = being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Gary, first of all, thanks for sharing valuable experience with everyone.

Well prepared is a good thing. My philosophy is to do what I can and expect the unexpected in any event.