david_brennan

<p>I think your $100/hour is probably a pretty good number, considering this sounds like basic event/ grip-and-grin type shooting. Be sure to estimate the amount of post-production time needed afterward prepping files, etc., and add that, too.<br>

David<br>

www.brennanphotography.com</p>

<p>Angel-<br>

You should look at the work of photographers that are represented by reps, and you'll see the style and quality of work they are looking for. Reps tend to only handle the best of the best photographers doing high-end advertising or fashion productions. Your portfolio has a long way to go to get to that level.<br>

Best,<br>

David</p>

<p>Lately, when I see one of these requests for pricing help from someone who does photography "just for fun", I tend to not want to bother taking the time. The reason is that more often than not, it seems I can spend a bit of time putting together a well-researched response based on professional experience, and the original poster gets cold feet at the last minute and decides to sell the picture for a ridiculously low fee, making my suggestions pointless. I'm sorry to sound like a jerk about this, but it gets frustrating.</p>

<p>BUT- if you are serious about charging professional rates, and can give me more specific information about the company- preferably the company name and division, but if not that, at least their specific market segment- I can try to walk you through this. It would also help for me to see the picture, or get a detailed description of it. A lot of variables apply to this.</p>

<p>This sale could potentially be worth a few hundred to some thousands of dollars, depending on various factors. So let me know if you want pursue it.</p>

<p>David</p>

<p><a href="http://www.brennanphotography.com">www.brennanphotography.com</a></p>

Corporate work like this in NYC starts at $2500 a day, and goes up from there, depending on production complexity and usage. It looks like you'll probably be a day shooting the pictures, assuming the interior shots don't require extensive lighting. Expenses and digital fees are all additional. If it's going to see any consumer advertising, the additional usage fees can become substantial.

Good luck!

David

www.brennanphotography.com

I charge $110/hour, but I'm fast and very experienced. To produce final file from raw as you describe I charge $55

each, because it's about a half hour by the time I'm done fooling around with each one. For instance, I spend a lot of

time just moving files around and backing them up, before I start to actually work on them.

I actually have two digital services charges: Digital Production, and Digital Post-Production.

My estimates describe digital post production as:

"Digital post-production" charge per finished file includes conversion to tiff file, producing web photo gallery or prints

for review, individual color correction, applying contrast curves, sharpening, any needed dust removal, very minor

retouching, and burning to CD for delivery. This total amount may vary if client chooses more than original estimated

number of final shots. Retouching, if necessary, is an additional cost of $110 per hour.

This is on top of my daily digital services fee which starts at $350. It goes up if we are shooting a lot of pictures, or

are tethered. If we need to hire a digital tech it's a whole other deal.

My estimates describe this as:

"Digital production" includes the cost to shoot, transfer, edit, save, and archive digital files.

Hope this helps.

David

www.brennanphotography.com

You should definitely charge for this. Fotoquote lists this as a separate category, and for the size you mention, about $1000 each. Maybe discount it a bit for both, and because they've done other business with you, and because it sounds like a fairly local company.

Good job charging fair prices for your work!

David

I think you've put a lot of thought into your plan, and have the right attitude. For instance, it's great that you are concentrating on quality instead of trying to get in the door by being cheaper, which is always fatal.

Don't over-analyze this or re-invent the wheel, though. You aren't going to change the way an advertising agency runs their business. They already have goals similar to what you propose. The bottom line is that your photography portfolio has to be stunning. There are a million great product photographers out there. You have to stand out.

Contrary to another response, some companies do contract product photography themselves, and not through an agency. Catalog type shots usually don't go through an ad agency. So it can't hurt to approach everyone involved.

You've got a lot of work ahead!

David

Here's the contract I use. Go to:

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

Click on the Copyright Notice, then on Terms and Conditions.

In addition to this, you need to add in your licensing terms, which are very simple, basically: "(Client) is licensed (usage in X media for X period of time). All Photographs copyright (Your Name)."

Best,

David

Karen-

I just took a look at your portfolio, and your work is truly beautiful and unique. All the more reason your pictures should be special to your clients, and they should be fair in their dealings with you.

David

First, re:

"If you sell your client all rights to the photos (what is known as a "buyout" because they are buying all of the usage rights to the photograph) your client can then, as the photographs is now essentially their property, turn around and sell it or give it away to whomever they want -- but that is a separate deal from your deal with your client."

This is not true for a couple of reasons. First, there is no such thing as a "buyout". It means nothing legally, and is simply a colloquial phrase people throw around with a variety of meanings attached.

There is such a thing as "unlimited use", but this does not include a copyright transfer, which is the only legal way someone can re-distribute pictures for re-use by third parties.

In the rare instances I do license unlimited use to clients, to make things very clear I will state in the contract something to the effect of: "(Client) is licensed unlimited use. Pictures may not be used by third parties without consent of photographer. All photographs copyright David Brennan."

Now, to Karen's specific situation. If the manufacturer is going to restrict the depiction of their products in the boutique's pictures, that is between those two parties, and doesn't concern the photographer. This is a funny legal area, but chances are the manufacturer wouldn't stand a chance of enforcing this. In any event, the photographer is out of that loop.

The only reason the photographer is in the loop in this case is that the manufacturer is trying to squeeze free photography out of her, which is total BS. This outfit has not negotiated in good faith in the past, and is now trying it again. They should be told that they are welcome to share in the pictures, but for a fair price. Keep in mind that if they have 300 distributors, theoretically they will get 300 times the amount of use from the pictures as the original boutique, and should pay well for that.

Karen- are you strong enough to walk away from this job if it turns out the manufacturer is going to jack you, and the boutique is in such a low bargaining position with them that they will sell you out rather than take a stand? Maybe give the boutique a separate price that includes their right to re-distribute the photos (which should be several times their original cost) and see if they all of a sudden don't feel quite so generous giving away your pictures.

David

www.brennanphotography.com

$800 a day, even in a small market, is very low. Add in usage, assistant, and post and you're screwing yourself. If you are a capable commercial shooter, $1200 a day is a minimum that you should charge. Of course assistant and post production (at least $50 an hour) should be in addition to that. Usage is iffy. For low-level corporate stuff, like this sounds like, they probably won't use the pictures for any big budget use, so perhaps include it. BUT- you at least need to find out what the usage is before you just go giving it away. I'd charge travel at 1/2 my day rate plus expenses. I would also have a 1/2 day minimum for any job. The per hour thing is amateurish.

FWIW.

David

These are fairly frequent requests when shooting for magazines. I usually charge a minimum of about $1000 for a small company, $2000-3000 for a big corporation. For this they get use of the file with unlimited corporate and PR usage (not paid placement) for a few years.

If they want prints, charge them that amount on top of the usage fee above.

Might be smart to sandbag it for a couple of months until the magazine has been distributed, but it probably won't matter.

David

Fotoquote doesn't list college brochure usage, but for general business brochures the price would average about $500 per picture. A little less if 1/4 page or smaller, a bit more larger than 1/2 page.

Is the 10,000 copies the grand total of each piece they will print over the course of five years? The reason I ask is that usually when a company requests usage for a time period like this, it's because they want a broader usage package.

Hopefully you haven't destroyed you chances to charge a fair price by previously giving images away.

Let me know how you do.

David

Just to reiterate what Randy said:

It's extremely discouraging to pros here who try to help newbies price things correctly (for their own good), just to have our advice ignored. If you've made up your mind you were going to ignore the advice here, you shouldn't have asked for it. It's for this reason I've pretty much stopped wasting my time trying to help on these forums; it's like shouting into the wind.

If someone has made up their mind they are going to be a low-end hack, and nothing better, they won't be changed.

They will offer every retarded justification in the world for why they should act like losers:

"I'm just starting out. It was fun. It's for the exposure. They said this was all they'd pay. My mommy will be very proud to see my credit line. I don't want to take advantage of them. It will get me other (low-end crap) work."

Newbies: Feel free to cut and paste the above justifications in your future postings to save yourselves the effort of pretending you came up with something intelligent yourself. It has all been heard before. And it has always been the first step on the path to a failing business.

David

As a commercial photographer who constantly tries to help his assistants and interns, plus students and newbies learn how to become professional photographers, this is one of the most discouraging posts I have read on a forum.

We have someone whose only previous photographic transaction was for a $100 wedding ask for some real advice, and all she gets is complete utter nonsense from people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

For instance, Bill Jordan said

"...I'd probably just ask them what they normally pay for that sort of thing and take it, even though they might lowball you."

And:

"...I would consider the good fortune the fact that you are going to have one of your photos used in very wide distribution, not the fact that you can make some money off it."

Holy s**t.

Note to the person in a later post who asked if it was possible to make over $100,000 a year in photography. Obviously not if you take the advice from some of the people here!

It is mind boggling that here, on a so-called "BUSINESS" forum, people who haven't the slightest idea what they are talking about make crap up out of thin air, and present it to people whose careers, futures, and businesses are in the balance.

David

In order to have it re-shot, it would need to be SIGNIFICANTLY different in subject, composition, and style for you to avoid the very serious possibility of a major copyright infringement lawsuit. I'm talking about a $150,000 civil penalty in federal court, possible criminal charges, and untold hours and legal costs. This is serious stuff, it happens a lot, and is a risk a small businessperson shouldn't expose themselves to, IMO.

Either accept the fact that other low-budget companies are using the same image, or do it right and have original concept and art professionally created, or purchase rights-managed stock.

David

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

Hi, James

I am very interested in talking with you, but am unable to connect to your site, so can't email you. Can you drop me a note with your email address? Thanks!

David

www.brennanphotography.com

I am working on a project that will take place either in Buenos Aires, Madrid,

or Santiago Chile, that I need some help with planning and arranging. It is a

large editorial assignment photographing young people, age 15-22, doing

everyday activities- talking with friends, shopping, eating in a restaurant,

relaxing at home, etc.

I just completed a similar project in another country, and we used about 70

people in the pictures we shot over two weeks. We paid each one $50 US for an

hour or two of shooting and a signed model release.

For that job I had excellent luck working with a recent college graduate and

freelance news photographer who knew a lot of young people who were willing to

be in these pictures. He gathered them together with the help of his brother

and a friend, and scheduled when they were to show up for the pictures. He also

helped arrange access to some of the locations where we were shooting, and was

my assistant on location as well. It was about two weeks work for him, total. A

local school was also helpful in letting us do a casual casting there with

their students.

I am looking for someone who is motivated, organized, and has a network of

friends or acquaintances who would like to be photographed. I am on a fairly

tight budget for this, but can pay a fair price for this work. It is

essentially a casting/scouting job. It is ideal for a young person starting out

that knows something about photography and is well-connected in the community.

Where I shoot this job depends on where I can find a reliable person to do this

pre-shoot work for me.

Please contact me if you are interested, and I can provide more details.

Thanks!

David

dpr@brennanphotography.com

I'm a big advocate here and on other forums for photographers charging enough for photography. But...

$1500 for a 1/4 page, 500 print run is really steep. Fotoquote's lowest print run listed for brochure usage is 5000, and for 1/4 brochure usage they list an average of $325, and a maximum of $487, which a unique image like yours might possibly qualify for. But that's a print run of 5000. So I'd probably tell them I made a mistake, used the wrong pricing database, and re-quote them $350. And stick to that number.

It sounds like this buyer doesn't understand picture licensing, but he may have a point about the price you quoted him nevertheless.

Good luck. Let us know what happens with this sale.

David

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

I have brief FAQ-type article about this on my website:

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

Go to the "Information" link, then click on the Copyright Notice, and it will connect to the article.

David

I have a brief discussion about some of these issues on my website:

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

Go to the "Information" link, then click on the Copyright Notice, and it will connect to the article.

David

I would probably just charge the full page rate, which probably would not be too different (for me) than a smaller page rate, since a book is not considered big-budget usage, and I would tend to charge most for the photography fee rather than the usage in this case. In other words, the shoot cost would tend to cover up to a full-page use.

I would still think you need the name of the book, though, so you could put in the licensing language something to the effect of: Usage licensed is for one-time publication on an inside page, up to full page size, in "XXXX" book.

Good luck.

David

http://www.brennanphotography.com/

Vikram,

I have no idea where you'd get a model release that doesn't involve a photograph of the person. Sounds more like you need some sort of endorsement contract. Sorry I can't help.

Thanks so much for the kind words about my work. Believe me, I'm far from satisfied with the calibre, scope, and style of my work, and am constantly striving to improve.

As far as your question re: slide film, again, I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about some antique specialized photographic process? Wasn't "slide film" some ancient craft involving plastic strips coated with some sort of light-sensitive emulsion, or something? ;) Just kidding. I haven't shot film since 2001. (I have a nice Pentax 67 system, some Mamiya pieces, a brand new Horseman 4x5, some Nikon 35s, a Pentax K, and my favorite camera of all time, a Contax G, all waiting to be adopted by some kind soul with a few bucks. I'll get 'em all up on Ebay eventually.)

Regards,

David

(Boy, that URL got butchered- I'll try it again)

<p>

Good enough for Getty, good enough for me:

<p>

<a href="http://contributors.gettyimages.com/article.asp?article_id=991">Getty</a>

<p>

Dave

<p>

<a href="www.brennanphotography.com">brennanphotography.com</a>

Good enough for Getty, good enough for me:

http://contributors.gettyimages.com/article.asp?article_id=991

Dave

www.brennanphotography.com