ferling

<p>I hear you, and that's what I was told.</p>

<p>Seriously, shoot all the public access you want. Make a 40" print from an Epson 9800 to place on your studio wall as great conversation piece. Obviously, we are from different worlds, and in keeping with the OP's topic with regards to selling and making profits, I shared an actual experience. Again, quoting from the ASMP article (that you provided -in which case if you read it fully, you agree), as a corporate photographer for hire, I think it's wise to avoid confrontation with "litigious copyright owner could make your life a living, expensive and defensive hell." </p>

<p>The OP needs to inquire with the property owner directly if he's worried about it.</p>

<p>Katie, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I'm not a lawyer, and this does not constitute as legal advice. Its best that you seek advice from a lawyer. Technically, folks can sue one another for anything, providing they have the money and find a lawyer whom wishes to take the case. You've offered her a reshoot, then refunded her money. I'm sure that would appease a judge in such situations. She could try and declare emotional damage or stress. The burden is on her to hire a lawyer and go after you, proving her stress led to financial loss, etc. Of course, win or not, you would have to pay for someone to defend you. Maybe you could have your mutual friend try to defuse the situation?</p>

<p>Do you have Errors and Omissions (E&O) with your insurance, (you do have insurance, correct)? To protect you from these kinds of situations out of your control. While general liability covers you in case someone trips over your light cord and gets hurt, or you damage someones property in lieu of working, etc. E&O protects you from something that your facing right now.</p>

 

<p>>>>situations where then entire property falls under copyright<<<</p>

<blockquote>

<p>"Not likely...http://asmp.org/tutorials/photos-public-buildings.html#.UTuTlTdsQU9"</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Quote from the article you've referenced: "When art is involved in the photography of a building, however, there could be a problem... — yet a litigious copyright owner could make your life a living, expensive and defensive hell."<br /><br />THAT is Vegas. Another quote from one of staff at one of the casinos I was shooting in: "We spend nearly 2.5 billion in designing this place. Every bit of it is copyrighted."</p>

<p>I don't make this stuff up.</p>

 

<p>Like Ben said. Saves a whole lot more time that way. </p>

<p>When shooting in Vegas, I have encountered situations where then entire property falls under copyright, and the only reason I'm allowed to shoot is for the clients whom are renting the facilities. Especially in the casino, a whole different ballgame there. While I was an employee, shooting a venue for my employer, we ran into the situation with copyright at the initial meet and greet. I was only allowed in certain spaces, etc. To ease tensions I volunteered to shoot a few things that they could use to give me more freedom. They were happy with the CD I left them. Upon returning the following year, I was welcomed with open arms and given free reign. It's important to respect the interests of others and talk about things up front.</p>

<p>No one here can give you legal advise, and it's better to confront the situation before it comes one. Is he or she gonna go after me? I dunno, ask them directly.</p><div></div>

<p>Here's an example of how to tell the client that your image is a proof. You can easily create a png in Photoshop, and assign this as a watermarking template (in the export panel in Lightroom). I also have one for my Zenfolio account that I use in the protected clients gallery. Note the word "proof" is semi-transparent, and that the logo is not in order to be readable.</p>

<p>I tell clients up front that physical prints do not have watermarks on them. Prints they order from online will have the watermarks removed. That online images will have a small logo in the corner to protect both our interests: the rights I grant them, and the rights I retain. That should some third party steal their image for other uses, we can go after them. If it's a full buy out, then no logos are used. It's all in the agreement. If someone balks or has issue, we can take care of that before any work is done and I get hung out to dry.</p>

<p>This way, you still get to be the good guy and handle this in a professional manner.</p>

<p> </p><div></div>

<p>Watermark you proofs as "proof" or "comp", large, semitransparent and center (like Corbis and others do). A big fat logo by itself might seem intrusive to those whom are not in this field of work. For final or finished images, a small logo/copyright will then suffice.</p>

<p>+1 with Matt. <br>

I sense where you're coming from. That contracts might seem a little cold with regards to friendships, until something happens: you get a stop and desist letter, or worse, your facing a judge, and he asks to see your contract and releases.</p>

<p>Some folks seem to think a contract is a form of receipt. No money, no need. Bull.</p>

<p>I'm shooting my sister-in-laws wedding for zip, as a gift. We recently held a meeting to discuss the terms of her contract, (which also contains language for model release). She didn't fuss or question it, and without it, I wouldn't shoot it anyway. Even when I'm shooting for a charity, they have a vendors contract and release so they can secure rights for their use. My insurance provider likes me to use them also, (you do have insurance, right?). Stuff happens, whether the shoots free or not, you need one.</p>

<p>Jeff, I agree. It's a business and you have to conduct yourself in such a matter. I also conduct same or next day delivery, (it also makes sense to edit with the shoot still fresh in my mind).</p>

<p>My point for #4 was not to be taken at face value by showing a minute before a job (H to the no), but by being ready to tackle something at a minutes notice with regards to skill and knowing your gear. When your at event that involves the entire hotel, you can be go from inside to outside all day. Especially in corporate jobs with all kinds of training functions going on, and I need to capture a representation of them all. I could be outside shooting a group of attendees undergoing some team building exercises by the pool in the mid-day sun. Then, at moments noticed be called in to capture a surprise guest speaker (not on schedule) at a presentation inside a very dim ballroom. It happens.</p>

<p>I've been to shoots where the jobs were dived up amongst three or more shooters. When minutes into the shoot, another photographer would come over, and the puzzled look on his face told me what's up. He would ask me what settings I was using! Others would bring me their camera's and ask me to critique their first few shots, and the customer was right there! "Pete. Take a look at this, I'm not sure. Does this look right?" I'm sure you have similar stories.</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>"have someone (on professional level) evaluate a portfolio of 10-20 pictures."</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good call, Monika. When you're just starting out, your critiques come from family and close friends. Your relationship with them will effect their input, and many of them might not wish to hurt your feelings if they don't like your work, and so your critiques will not be entirely truthful.</p>

<p>While on the subject, be mindful that what determines a professional photographer is a paycheck. That is, I've seen folks whose work is sub-par, but technically accurate, focused and meets the criteria for the client. When shooting tabletop items for catalog, there's not really not much room in terms of creativity. Many shoots are governed by templates and run through like cattle. Not every product is a cover shot. Not every model shoot is double-page spread, sometimes it just has to be focused, framed and lit correctly for a customer to identify the object and hit the buy it now button. With the exception of a few product shots, none of that stuff finds it's way into my portfolio -its boring, but it pays the bills, and buys the toys.</p>

<p>There's lots of different work for cheap pay that you can do with a minimum of gear and technique. Local school sports, little leagues, and being a studio drone for a portrait chain, etc. etc. These will teach you about dealing with people and a little about lighting and just working it. Much of these are done in the evening hours or on the weekend so you can keep your day job. They also get you out in front of potential clients that might lead to other kinds of work. Hint. Hint.</p>

<p>I have both the 5D and 7D, and I could talk you arm off about their merits. However, if a rebel suited your needs, and that's the tool that you can hit the floor running with, then get another one. You are correct about the photographer being the best feature to most any camera -providing that camera fits your style. So, if a Rebel was wrench enough to turn the kinds of nuts you tackle, then you'll have a little more cash to treat yourself to a nice lens. Eh?</p>

<p>Keep in mind If you break your buddy's camera then you'll need to replace two bodies. If you really, really want that 5D II, (like toys never influence any of us...:)) and can take the risk of waiting. Then you won't complain about having too many features, (providing you don't have any EFs lenses - as already mentioned).</p>

<p>Finally, get insurance, if you're in business and it involves breaking things... :)</p>

<p>You've got spirit and a desire to shoot. For the most part you are shooting for yourself. When you involve a client and money, your now shooting to get what he or she wants. It's dead simple, but a reality none-the-less for newbies crossing over.</p>

<p>Point 2. Know your customers like they will know you. Let's say you shoot weddings, and you do a three or free ones, and from those you cull 25 good shots to place into a book. Then let's say you meet your first paying client, and they want to see example of an entire wedding? Not just the selects, but something more tangible to their expectations of what they might receive in total? You might be taken aback by this, but clients are also tech savvy enough to Google the subject and read about things like this. They will ask these questions and they will be informed. It won't hurt you to be your own best customer and read up and learn from a potential clients point of view.</p>

<p>Point 3. Be efficient. You might have a nice portrait shot, but how many attempts did it take for you to hit the good one? There's nothing like having a live ratio known, by the client, on the spot. Practice, practice.</p>

<p>Point 4. Be quick. Someone likes your online folio of select concert shots and they bring you in to shoot an event. Suddenly an important person is on the stage and your asked to capture that, and you only have a minute before they walk off. Can you do it? Right there in front of anywhere from 100-18,000 people? Do you know the initial settings needed to get a ballpark shot, check, adjust and fire again, and again to have three to choose from? Hint: when you're new, hold the camera at waist level, take a shot to sample exposure of the room, check and adjust as you walk up. Eventually experience will kick in and you'll know what settings will put you in the ballpark as you encounter the scene.</p>

<p>Point 5. Know your worth. A client balks at you print prices, $50 for an 8x10 of your landscape? I can get that for a buck on cheapskateprinting.com, etc. Technically, while that may be true, you're not selling a "print", you're selling an image that you worked on and need to profit by. Another example. If I paid an electrician for just fiddling with some wires, he'd get $5. However, he charges me $100 an hour for KNOWING which wires to fiddle with. Also, I don't question his fee when he shows up in my driveway with a work truck and $20k in tools, and then he makes work look easy because he obviously knows what he is doing.</p>

<p>Point 6. Word of mouth. Finally, while on the subject with the electrician. I called him based on the references of others I know and trust. No different than how I chose my dentist, my mechanic, etc. etc. "Anyone know a good photographer?" The only way to get there is to keep doing what your doing and put yourself out there. Eventually you'll get a phone call, an email or FB post from a someone you don't know, whom was given your name by someone you do.</p>

<p>Keep shooting.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Rob, I do apologize, and do not wish to this take a wrong turn.</p>

<p>Since the OP mentioned that the camera would be shared amongst the family (aka teenagers, and I have 5 of them myself). Durability plays a key requirement for his needs, and I have a personal experience as to the durability of the 7D's that I own, which are on par with the 1Ds that I've used for over 7 years, almost daily. When I picked up the 60D it felt cheap, relative to something like a weak handshake, and it was my opinion (only an opinion, based on a gut feeling), that I wouldn't trust it surviving a fall, etc. Maybe it's the mechanical engineer in me, I'm all over that need for a magnesium frame, and willing to accept some heft as a consequence.</p>

<p>You then countered with evidence that a D90 vs. a 550 would disprove my opinion about the 60D. I provided evidence relative to the thread's subject of the camera in question, from the same source.</p>

<p>Regarding the 60D: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/post/36758258</p>

<p>However, we could Google up 'evidence' all day, if we want. I just know that stuff happens. Tripods get knocked over, (wind, someone runs into it, and once a leg was not tightened and it let go). A camera bag takes a tumble off a chair. Someone spills soda and beer on it. The camera goes for a ride in my van when I slam the brakes on to avoid an accident. I could go on.</p>

<p>Maybe it's unfair of me, that for my needs, that I need something built like a tank because I'm on the job, and I could be a little more relaxed for casual use with something cheaper. However, most of my camera's mishaps, save two, were not on the job. This is why I have a extra 7D just for personal use.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>[[i put more faith in the 7D taking abuse over the more plastic and cheap feeling 60D.]]</em><br>

<em><a href="

rel="nofollow" target="_blank">

<em>The belief that somehow "heft" == "strength" is the camera worlds flat Earth theory.</em><br>

<em> </em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em><br /></em>Uhm..

<blockquote>

<p><em>"be used as a everyday camera shared with the wife and my 12 and 14 year old boys."</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><em><br /></em>I put more faith in the 7D taking abuse over the more plastic and cheap feeling 60D. I had a 7D fall off the ladder in the studio. Survived like a champ. Loved it so much that I purchased a second to replace a dated 1Ds.</p>

<p>I've kept only one of three 28-135 lenses because it's acceptably sharp. I can recommend the 17-55 EFs, (27-88mm in 35mm equiv). Lots of general use in that range and very sharp.</p>

<p>The 7D, and many DSLR's like it, make for lousy video cameras in casual use. The lack of articulating screen on a bright sunny day would drive you nuts. I tried using one professionally. You have to heavily accessorize them, and just not worth the effort over something more dedicated.</p>

<p>The camera is just a tool. Your real issue is trying to identify the nut you wish to turn. Then it should be easy to pick the right wrench for the job. You'll be much happier.</p>

<p> </p>

<blockquote>

<p><em>"But is this how you want your child to remember you?" - JDM</em></p>

</blockquote>

<p><br />LOL. A good point. However, if you've seen how vacant the parks are in my neck of the woods, you wonder where are all the Dad's taking their kids? If photography is the excuse, that still works. :)</p><div></div>

<p>My little 'Karate Kid' on the swing. Canon 7D, 135 f2L.</p><div></div>

<p>Well, five kids later, I have agree with JDM on a decent point and shoot in the years prior to them running. I still have the Canon G5 from my last two kids (both still in elementary school). The G5 was also a good one for the wife to use. A fast 2.0 lens and manual settings were sufficient for most needs. This compared to my first two girls, when I had a T50 35mm film body and FD lenses, (including the FD 50 f1.4). Trying to juggle a few kids, bags and strollers with a heavy DSLR and long lens hanging from my neck, banging around was a hassle in the first few years.</p>

<p>Now when they get older and are on the move, then the DSLR is absolutely necessary, and Marcus is correct about the EF 135 f2L , (and the 100 f2.8 macro is a close second). Think sports. Images of the kids in squirt gun fights, on the faster rides, or even on a swing allows only brief seconds to get the shot. Once they get involved in sports, will you find a non-work excuse to convince the wife to buy the 70-200 L. :) </p><div></div>

<p>While I'm not a lawyer, I hope your photographer has included Errors and Omissions (E&O), in his insurance. That said, we all make mistakes. I've shot JPEGs when I intended RAWs before, for my own projects. So I know it's a very possible oversight, and certainly during a busy wedding day. Fortunately, those shots were properly exposed, and I didn't have to re-shoot.</p>

<p>With regards tot he contract, was any additional fee assessed because of providing RAWs? That is, if the the RAWs were not included, would his fee have been the same? If not, then did he provide an itemized list so that you know the exact amount in question?<br>

<br />More importantly, you admitted to being happy with his services and while you have his apology, you have the power to pursue him. But, you also have that same power to forgive him as well.<br>

Just a thought.</p>

<p>I've gotten these in a few kits, and one particular sample turned out to be a keeper. Got it with a 40D in 2008. Took it everywhere for the intended purpose of general use. Found it unusually sharp, so I used in a few live events and concerts -where the IS came in handy, (sample below). I received two more from 7D kits of recent, and after testing all three, found the old one still sharper than new. Kept it and sold of the new ones.<br>

<br />While on the subject of cheap lenses, thanks to post processing tools and posting small files online. You'll find additional room to forgive these lenses. </p><div></div>