peter shier

I had a Toyo for a while (45E) and it was fine but it had a fixed

bellows so I could not use bag or extended bellows. I don't know

about the 45D but I would check into that. Also, if you are buying a

model with changeable bellows then check the availability of new or

used bag/extended bellows.

I've had the F-line 8x10 for almost a year and I love it. I had a

4x5 F-line before that so the choice was a no-brainer as I can share

some of the mounted lenses and rails. The only very minor complaint

I have is that the spring on the back is sometimes a bit quirky and

I always double check it after inserting a film holder to make sure

that it is snug. I have only been using it for portraits in the

studio so I can't comment on field use.

I just did an 8x10 portrait session with my 75 year old mother who

is both overweight and has a double chin. I had her sitting in a

chair and shot from above to minimize the heavier features. The

chair and her body were facing camera left, with her face turned

toward the camera. This made the shoulder facing the camera loom a

bit large so I used a touch of rear swing to minimize it a bit. I

also put a bar stool in front of her (like a posing table) and she

put her elbows on the stool and held her chin in her hands to cover

the doubleness. She has lovely hands and they looked beautiful. I

shot TMAX 100 and Polaroid 804 with a 450 showing head and shoulders.

 

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I would also suggest dark clothing and a dark background to minimize

the body appearance. You may want a bit of a hair light to separate

dark hair from the background.

 

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As for lighting, I used a fairly flat approach because I like that

but you might also try something more directional. For example, in

my mother's case I could have used a ratio or one of the standard

techniques that would be stronger on the face (camera left) and

weaker on the shoulder and back side.

 

<p>

 

Check out Monte Zucker's site as he has lots of posing and lighting

tutorials that include suggestions for shooting heavy subjects.

OK, I'm jealous-:) Did he talk about how he does the Irish

schoolkids at all? Does he just set up in some corner with

reasonable background and lighting and then wait for kids to show up

at some marked spot that he has focussed on? What film does he use?

Any other info about those sessions would be most appreciated.

 

<p>

 

Thanks,

I have been viewing Jock Sturges' Irish schoolchildren pictures in a recent issue of B+W and the more I see them the more I love them. I found a short BIO of him on the website of one of the galleries and it mentions that he teaches. Does anyone know where?

 

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Thanks,

Those who do LF street shooting - I'd be curious about your focus

and composition techniques.

 

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Do you set up for a particular spot and then wait for something

interesting to appear there?

 

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Do you ask people if you can photograph them?

 

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Do people ask you to photograph them?

 

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Do you hand out Polaroids?

I have been studying Joel Sternfeld's books and I really love his

work. I would be curious to know more about his technique if anyone

has details.

 

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What film does he use?

 

<p>

 

Does he ever use supplemental lighting? Some of the shots seem to

have a lot of DOF with what seems like relatively dim natural light.

 

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How does he interact with the subjects? What kind of direction (if

any) does he give them?

 

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How many shots does he generally take of each subject?

 

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Is he very fast setting up the shot? Some of them seem like people

who would not have much patience to wait for view camera adjustments.

 

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In urban settings, does he look for a good potential spot, set up,

wait for a good subject, and then ask permission to shoot?

 

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Is he refused often when asking for permission to shoot?

I agree with Ellis re the 'curing' phenomenon. What you see after

peeling apart is not the final color. It is actually much nicer a

few hours later. I find the same behavior with type 809 in 8x10

(same as type 59 in 4x5). I'd be curious to know why this happens.

 

<p>

 

Re speed, they rate it 100 but I find it does well with a little

extra exposure (at least in the studio with strobes). I shot some

679 in the studio yesterday at 80 and the exposure was excellent.

 

<p>

 

Also, as a proof for Provia and Velvia, you might want to check how

it does with longer exposures.

I would be very interested in organizing a group in the

Portland/Seattle/Vancouver, BC area some time in May. If you are

interested and have suggestions for a location please contact me off

list.

 

<p>

 

I would also be interested in day trip get-togethers in the Seattle

area.

The fashion mags are great source material and they are very cheap

(around $12-$15 for a 1 year subscription). Want to see what Annie

Liebowitz, Herb Ritts, Irving Penn, and other big names are doing

lately? Check out Vogue, Vanity Fair, Elle, etc.

 

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Elle is actually run by a superb photographer (Gilles Bensimon) and

he usually has a couple of spreads in every issue.

 

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For a long time I was studying Annie Liebowitz' group portraits

which I have always greatly admired. I was able to see her latest

almost every month in these mags.

 

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They are also a great source if you are interested in portrait

lighting and composition. This is generally not LF work (usually MF)

but I have learned a lot of portrait technique from them.

I realize this response is a bit late but I have just been browsing

the archives and found this thread. I have been going through a

similar process over the last year or so beginning with 4x5 and

moving up to 8x10. I have a small home studio with strobes and a

seamless background. I use only single color papers (black, white,

sky blue).

 

<p>

 

I began by finding a cheap and patient model. Our teenage babysitter

agreed to sit for me at babysitter rates. She was flattered to be a

model and found it easier than chasing after my kids -:). I also

shot a lot of 4x5 Polaroids (mostly type 54).

 

<p>

 

I also spend a lot of time studying portrait books from the public

library, especially Karsh. Other favorites are Herb Ritts, Richard

Avedon, Annie Leibowitz, and Arnold Newman.

 

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I often return to the same book, checking for how a particular

aspect is handled. For example, I recently began to deal with the

problem of exaggeration of features that are closer to the camera.

I first noticed this when I photographed a young girl sitting on a

stool facing the camera with her hands on her knees. The hands

seemed too large in relation to her torso and face. With the view

camera we can easily fix that with some rear tilt.

 

<p>

 

I noticed a similar problem when photographing a large woman sitting

in a chair with her body facing camera left and face turned toward

the camera. Her left shoulder was closest to the camera, and because

of its naturally large size as well as proximity to the lens, it

just loomed too large in relation to the face. A bit of rear swing

took care of it.

 

<p>

 

After doing a couple of these perspective corrections I returned to

the Karsh books and began looking at all of his shots that must have

had similar issues to see how he dealt with them.

 

<p>

 

I strongly recommend using flat lighting while working on the posing

and shooting aspects. Also, try to have enough light to stop way

down so you don't have depth of field issues. DOF can be *very*

shallow with LF at portrait distances. Minor subject movement can

move focus from the eyes to the ears and ruin the shoot. Don't

fiddle with too many variables at once.

 

<p>

 

I also suggest working with very patient subjects to begin with. I

start by explaining to the subject about the view camera and how it

is different from a 'normal' camera. I also explain how once we find

a comfortable pose that they will need to stay still for 'a moment'

while I load the film holder and shoot the picture.

 

<p>

 

In my most recent sessions, I begin by shooting some MF Polaroids to

check lighting, check pose, help the subject become accustomed to

the strobe flashes, and to give them an idea of what they will look

like in the setting. Sometimes I will also shoot a roll of MF so

that they will also have some 'snapshots'.

 

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Once all is set and the subject is comfortable I shoot an 8x10

Polaroid (usually 804). The reaction to that is usually a big 'wow'

and then I tell them they can take it home. That usually convinces

them of the value of LF. I then explain that I also want to shoot

some 'real' film and I do some negs (TMAX 100) and maybe trannies

(Provia or E100S). After seeing the Polaroid they understand the

beauty of the format and are usually happy to sit for a bit longer

to do the negs.

 

<p>

 

Very often I will talk with the subject or joke a bit when getting

ready to shoot (film loaded) and press the shutter release when a

nice candid look appears such as a laugh or an unposed expression. I

have had some wonderful results with that technique, especially with

kids.

 

<p>

 

Most of all, you will need to be patient. LF portraits are an art

like any other and your technique will continue to evolve as you

shoot more and study the work of others.

B&W is excellent and there are always LF photogs in there. There are

no technical details though unless the photog explicitly mentions

something in their interview. Many people (I among them) have asked

that they include a couple of pages at the back that gives some

technicals but they insist that their audience is art collectors who

are not interested in that stuff. Also, if you are selling your B&W

work they have a reasonably priced display advert section at the

back.

 

<p>

 

ED (zeke@idirect.com) - how do you know that the Playboy centerfold

is shot with an 8x10 (or am I being gullible here-:)?

I shoot 8x10 portraits in my home studio with strobes using TMAX 100, Provia, E100S, and Polaroid 804/809. I would like to try some color negs as well. Looking at B&H I can see that the pickings are pretty slim: NPL, NPS, Portra 160NC/VC, and Portra 400NC. Has anyone used any of these? Any recommendations?

I've just moved to Seattle and once again need to find good labs. Can anyone recommend labs in Seattle or the east side for B+W and E6 up to 8x10?

 

<p>

 

Thanks,

Peter Shier

I highly doubt that FedEx, UPS, etc. use damaging x-rays (at least

with the US). I have ordered plenty of sheet film from B&H and others

that has been delivered by FedEx and there has never been a problem.

100 ASA. I use Astia and TMAX 100.

Can anyone confirm that the Polaroid 405 holder only works for

verticals on the Arca 4x5?

 

<p>

 

Thanks,

Peter Shier

Yes the development was uniform and there were no scratches. I only

did three shots and only one actually came out properly. One was

completely white (don't know why) and one was very overexposed

despite using the exact same settings as the good one. I'll let you

know more after I finish the box. Mistakes are a bit costly at $8.00

a sheet-:(

Is there a back that allows using Polaroid pack film on a 4x5 Arca?

I tried the Polaroid 809 color 8x10 yesterday in a studio portrait

session and I was not happy with the results. The color is kind of

washed out and the contrast is not great. Maybe someone else can

comment on how to get a little more out of this film.

 

<p>

 

Peter Shier

I second the motion on Bill Maxwell's screens. I got them for my 4x5

and Hassy and they are simply superb. Bill is also a really nice guy

and will spend time explaining everything to you.

I have done lots of 4x5 portraits in my home studio with a 210mm lens

at around 5 feet. I use 2 1000ws packs and strobes and I get F32.

That gives me about 12 inches of DOF. I have just started doing 8x10

portraits with a 300mm lens using the same setup and that also gives

me about 12 inches DOF. With that much DOF I have also successfully

done lots of young children (even some very squirmy ones).

 

<p>

 

I do explain the need to keep their general position but even the

most patient and understanding person can make slight movements of

the head that can throw out your focus if you don't have enough DOF.

I have also done 4x5 shots with a 300mm in that setup and with only

six inches DOF it is still enough but probably not with young kids.

 

<p>

 

Peter Shier

With type 804 you do not get a usable negative. Don't know about the

others.

Sorry, I haven't used any color 8x10 Polaroid yet. I am sure there

are many on the list who can help you out.

 

<p>

 

Peter

Unfortunately, 8x10 Polaroids are not like 4x5 where all you need is

a 545 or 545i. For 8x10 you need a processor and accessories.

 

<p>

 

To begin with, the film is a bit different as the negative and

positive are separate. The box comes with two inner boxes: one with

negatives and one with positives. The positive is photo paper with a

jelly pod.

 

<p>

 

The current model is 81-12. It also requires an 81-06 film holder.

This piece is similar to a normal film holder. You load it with the

negative and use it in the camera just like a normal film holder.

 

<p>

 

The last piece is the 81-09 processing tray that fits into the

processor. When you are ready to develop the picture, you insert a

positive into the tray and then insert the film holder. You set the

processing time on a dial on the processor, press a button, and

rollers suck the positive and negative into the machine. The rollers

break the pod, spread the jelly, and then shoot the pair stuck

together into a tray at the back of the machine. When time is up, a

buzzer rings, you remove the pair and separate them just like with

4x5. The processor can also be run manually with a crank and you do

your own timing if you need to use it in the field without

electricity.

 

<p>

 

There is also an older model (I don't remember the number) that can

do the job.

 

<p>

 

Now for the bad news: a new processor, tray and holder together will

cost you $1000.00 at B&H. IMHO that is totally outrageous as the

whole purpose of the machine from Polaroid's point of view is to keep

you buying the film at $8.00 a sheet. I realize their manufacturing

costs per unit are high due to the low volume but considering how low-

tech this box is, I was really in shock when I heard the price.

 

<p>

 

Calumet has their own house brand for about $700. You can also buy

them used on eBay (that's where I found mine). I would suggest

shopping around at used LF dealers and watching eBay. I believe there

is an older model on there now.

 

<p>

 

If you do find a used processor and there is no manual, then call

Polaroid and they will mail or fax you one. I would not recommend

using this beast without reading the manual first.

 

<p>

 

Peter