rebecca_l

<p>Cool post, Jeff. Will you save, catalog and analyze my remarks in this thread, too? Or will you just continue to sit there and be secretly bitter that I never replied to you? </p>

<p>Forget it, KEH sorted it out for me. Disregard this post, plz.</p>

<p>Jim, the shipping label was my house, not the correct address. They acknowledged themselves they sent it without checking the address. Which is hugely comforting, obviously.</p>

<p>William, Matt, my shipping instructions were very clear. It was their mistake, not mine, they said it themselves. They even explained how it happened. </p>

<p>Gerry, I don't want to rule them out. But before this I had never dealt with their customer service woman.</p>

<p>Okay, I'll give BH a try. I've heard about Adorama's issues also so I don't bother with anything but film and new items from them, I won't go near their used stuff. I did receive the camera because it came to my house, not the address it was meant to go to. I ordered it overnight. Were they good about sorting out your problems, Marc?</p>

<p>They sent my camera to the wrong address! When I emailed them about they wanted to compensate me with a lousy 10$ credit. The shipping alone on my order was 50$. I feel insulted. I feel like I don't want to do business with them anymore and it sucks because I've been ordering from them for a long time. Has anyone had any problems ordering from BH? </p>

<p>I wouldn't want to live someone else's life. It'd be like watching an 80-year-long movie (or however long) that I'd already seen. Why not just wish for something to improve the one you're already living and have invested in? Oh, who am I kidding, I'd just wish for a big pile of money to roll around in.</p>

<p>Possibly a contax T2.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.kevinbraddock.com/features01.php">http://www.kevinbraddock.com/features01.php</a></p>

<p><em>They like to have a good laugh about men not knowing what a washing machine is for or that men don't know how to use it. </em></p>

<p>Duuuuude, nooooooo. </p>

<p><em>I feel that many of these comments are made because many feel that they are hanging out with the lads.</em></p>

<p>If they were only among white people would they say racist things? Only if they're racist, right? </p>

<p>Tom, you're saying the offense is caused because of something the offended party (women) has misunderstood. Not because what is being said is offensive. Women wouldn't mind hearing that kind of misogynistic nonsense if only they had bothered to work a little harder at understanding the rube's personality and intent. The intent being, of course, to laugh uproariously at a woman's owning a camera for anything other than as an accessory for her shoes. This is ridiculous and no matter where we stand on the globe it will always be ridiculous. </p>

<p><em>It's the fact that we miss out on tone of voice and bodylanguage. It's that what creates the most misunderstandings...</em></p>

<p>That means you think the offense caused is the woman's fault. Like, I would have found that comment about women buying cameras as fashion accessories super hilarious if only I had heard the gaiety in his voice or seen the twinkle in his eye. </p>

<p>Gender-neutral handles aren't necessary and wouldn't make a difference. Hiding the fact that I'm a woman wouldn't make any of the above comments less sexist. And why should women hide the fact that they're women by using a handle? These comments aren't being made because the person knows he's identified as male and he's talking to other men. They're made because the person is being a jackass. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Female bull? How does that work? Is 'hysterical' no longer sufficient to undermine a woman's assertiveness?</p>

<p>I understand, man. You think women don't participate because they have nothing to say. But you disguise that sentiment by adding what you think is a compliment. So, yes, those words mean nothing.</p>

<p><em>I'm not a woman, so maybe I don't recognize the misogyny?</em></p>

<p><em>Why do we have to distinguish between male and female?</em></p>

<p><em>I didn't even notice the lack of females. I guess that's because I don't take much account of the name, rather just read the text.</em></p>

<p>Translate to: It doesn't bother me, so why would it bother anyone else? Other peoples' perspectives and opinions aren't as important to me as my insulated, privileged point of view.</p>

<p>FACT: You're not the center of the universe and other people aren't wrong or <em>whining</em> for experiencing the world differently from you.</p>

<p><em>Women are generally less geeky.</em></p>

<p><em>Women generally are more interested in getting results than in discussing equipment to death.</em></p>

<p>Translate to: Women don't bother learning anything about cameras beyond "point and click" which is lucky because they wouldn't have anything to add to the conversation anyway.</p>

<p>FACT: A uterus does not preclude one from understanding f-stops or forming coherent sentences about same.</p>

<p>Kayam, I'm not trying to be a bitch, because I feel like you're interested in hashing this thing out, but you yourself made a comment that I would find exclusionary or off-putting but you obviously didn't. I don't think we're judging these boards by the same criteria for gender neutrality. Your comment wasn't offensive enough for me to clutch my pearls and close the window but if you had said it standing in front of me I would have been pissed enough to roll my eyes and call you on it. That would probably be my reaction to most of the sexist or sexual comments on these boards. I don't think it's egregious enough to cut into anybody's freedom of speech but it's enough to keep me and possibly other women from wanting to take part. </p>

<p>It's just a matter of my not feeling like I'm among peers or people I can have much artistic discussion with without someone slipping in what I think is an, at the very least, unnecessary comment about women. </p>

<p>I look at the board using the unified view option so all the different sections tend to bleed together. But Kayam, the quotes I picked out are from this particular (classic camera) forum, in fact, just one thread in this forum produced all of them. I don't believe those comments and attitudes can be corralled to just one forum unless those posters are corralled. And I am participating!</p>

<p>A group of men talking amongst themselves, making sexual comments, often bordering on misogyny, is just repulsive to me. And it's everywhere here.</p>

<p>I see I quoted you, Red, citing examples of misogyny. I sense we're not going to find much common ground.</p>

<p>Good lord I just read that thread linked in the original post. Look no further for the reason behind photo.net's dearth of female posters:</p>

<p><em>Last time I showed a woman my Large Format Gear I got slapped...</em></p>

<p><em>Some just like how cute some cameras look and buy them as a fashion accessory.</em></p>

<p><em>Let's get down to brass tacks:</em><br>

<em>Were they hot?</em></p>

<p><em>Oh well, I guess we have to truckle to the feminist crowd from time to time. Women are superior, yeah, yeah. But saying that won't get you laid!</em></p>

<p>And the threadwinner:</p>

<p><em>I hope you mean that it's the cameras the old guys are fondling.</em></p>

<p>Mmmm, let me just go lobotomize myself.</p>

<p><em>Photo.net can be an ugly misogynistic place. Women who dare to ask technical questions are often patronized, and occasionally attacked.</em><br>

Examples:<br>

<em><em>A similar topic came up yesterday when I was having lunch with a female friend of mine; she made the observation that none of the women she knows have hobbies, including herself.</em></em><br>

<em><em>About 90% of the 'top-ranked' photographers here are men. (This may partly reflect that the top-ranked photographs include a large number of female nudes.)</em></em><br>

I don't post very much for the same reason I wouldn't sidle up to a group of strange men and start a conversation. What would we even talk about? I don't need help picking a lens and I don't share their fascination with lighting techniques for nipples. Plus whenever I read some not-so-subtle sexual comment made by the above group it nauseates me and I have to click away from the site altogether. That happens way too much for me to want to join in. </p>

<p>...What is your concern? Prop her up next to a tree, tell her to smile. It's just a senior photo.</p>

<p>I hate these kinds of posts. "Poor me, I have too much money and I just keep spending it on crap that won't make me happy or talented! Wah wah wah." </p>

<p>Last word freak.</p>

<p>You're not using the word in the use distinction way, you're using it as an indirect quote. You are indirectly quoting that guy who's never heard that phrase and has decided to reveal his ignorance to the world. The period goes on the INSIDE of your unnecessary quotation marks. Are you this small of a man you can't just admit it? Fair enough.</p>

<p>And you should really keep banging on about <strong>Wikipedia</strong> being your go-to for general knowledge. That really makes you look good. Is that where you got the idea about Obama's portrait being the first photograph? What a scoop!</p>

<p>You're wrong, okay? You need to come to terms with that. This is something you should have learned in grade school. If you're using the word as an indirect quote of what somebody else has said, WHICH YOU ARE, you don't need quotation marks. If you insist on using them because you don't know this fact, WHICH YOU DON'T, then the period/comma goes inside the quotation marks unless you're using British style (WHICH YOU'RE NOT). This is not a difficult concept.</p>

<p>Gosh. It's that hard for you to admit when you're wrong? Or...were you <em>really</em> using British style?</p>

<p>I'm not buying any of those excuses. You've punctuated incorrectly. It's not that big of deal.</p>

<p>Except that the periods at the end of his sentences should be inside the quotation marks. What did your other grandma do? </p>