robert_sholl

<p>I am a Zenfolio customer and I can tell you that password protected galleries are possible and very easy to do. They offer a great interface and the integration with Mpix is excellent. The customer experience is excellent too. Thats the good.<br>

the bad - they have their own way of thinking and I find myself constantly trying to figure out how I change something.<br>

the ugly - uploads. You have two basic choices - the Java based upload and Lightroom uploader. Both have issues. I have been trying to upload about 2000 images from a marathon. It is an exercise in frustration. 25% "lost" their file names in upload meaning I have to go back in and figure out the runners number. Both uploaders are dirt slow compared to FTP or even flickr uploadr. The Lightroom plugin makes you dump everything into one folder and then sort it out from the web interface. For the Java uploader, you can only put files into one directory per session. If you want to do multiple uploads to multiple directories, you have to open a lot of windows/tabs. If the Lightroom uploader encounters and error, it locks up lightroom while it waits to clear the error so forget about trying to do any editing while you are uploading. <br>

The uploading issues are really the only serious issue I have with Zenfolio but it is almost a deal breaker for me. Despite the serious difference in cost, I am close to moving to Photoshealter when my year with Zen expires. http://www.photoshelter.com/index <br>

Photoshelter has its own issues. The cost is $329 for the "standard" package - the bare minimum in my opinion. Storage is limited to 35GB and bandwidth to 50GB a month.<br>

On the positive side is FTP access, fotoQuote service and 10% fee vs 12% for Zenfolio.<br>

My 2000 images took about 15 hours to upload to my personal site. It took 5 hours to upload just 150 with the Java uploader and I still have to pick though and rename. If Zenfolio offered FTP I would pay for the next 10 years in advance. The experiences for buyers is excellent but if I cant get my images in front of those buyers, it doesnt matter. </p>

<p>ok, so here is the deal - My strobes are a collection of Pentax, Promaster and Sunpak. If I could afford a Metz, I would have one of those too. My triggers are Chinese ghetto full power, on/off types. Im just starting to use ambient and strobe light together. Will a meter be better than shoot and adjust? Amazon sent me a 10% off offer on a Sekonic L358. </p>

<p>Anyone got advice?</p>

<p>No, No and no.<br>

Those pictures are your professional reputation. If you give her unedited and/or bad shots, there is no way for you to know who will see them and think "what a terrible photographer."<br>

If this was a TF shoot 20 pics is a LOT. <br>

Would she be ok if you published pictures of her with half he make up on?<br>

If you agreed on portfolio images that is what she gets. The image is not complete until you say it is. The example I read yesterday was if a painter gave a canvas with the general image sketched out, a color chart and a bunch of paint and said, "when you finish this, put my name on it." Of course not. </p>

<p>My solution<br>

I bought a $7 11 x 14 picture frame<br />2 x $3 plastic boxes (holds up the frame)<br />$2.5 for white foamcore<br />$4 for silver reflecting paper<br />$2 for a white plastic table cloth <br>

<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4060/4501454153_eb4c3c4a61_b.jpg" alt="" width="1024" height="612" /></p>

<p><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4501453565_a178ebe3e1_b.jpg" alt="" width="1024" height="856" />I use two strobes under the glass. One to light the background, one to light up the area under the subject.<br>

I have one strobe on top the light the subject again.<br>

Output<br>

<img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4516618223_482ba29959_b.jpg" alt="" width="1024" height="1024" /></p>

<p><img src="http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4517252476_46855242aa_b.jpg" alt="" width="1024" height="1024" /><br>

After taking the pictures I dump them into Lightroom and use a graduated filter to make sure everything is 255<br>

You can see on the memory card I missed some. The Shadow on the tea ball is intentional but I missed a spot on the bottom.<br>

The key is to use an overwhelming amount of light from below going up the back side. For underneath the object I use the white plastic as a diffuser if it is too bright - no fold, one fold, two fold, etc. It reduces the intensity and spreads it out - double bonus. I have also put a "spacer" of bubble wrap for even more diffusion. The silver paper is really important. The light that bounces off the glass goes right back up for a second try.<br>

$20 total</p>

<p>Zenny - Thank you! I really need to start looking at my site with a different computer. The hazards of cookies. never going to convince me on FTP though :)<br>

Marta - I looked into doing the same thing and besides the pain factor of building and maintaining a shopping cart, the fees/contracts for CC processing were just going to kill me. <br>

Christophe - a few more things I didnt think of at 2 AM:<br>

LOVE Mpix as a fulfillment house. I have ordered tons of prints for myself from Mpix so I know how great my customers pix look. <br>

Absolute ease of contacting clients between order and shipping. I get an email, go to the website, click on the order and send thank you. And I can do it from my iPhone (web, not app).<br>

The ability to use Zenfolio as a "backup" site. If my own domain goes down for some reason, I can do a quick redirect to Zenfolio and keep a web presence. <br>

The ability to take a vacation/sleep. Back in the days before iPhones, being off the net might mean your website going down at a REALLY bad time and you not being able to do anything. I know someone else is maintaining Zenfolio while I am asleep. I can turn off custom orders and Zen/Mpix works on auto.</p>

<p>Bad stuff/wishes:<br>

From slide show to shopping cart and back is 5 steps. I wish I there were a "Buy Me" button that left people in the slide show to keep buying.<br>

I wish I could put a "buy me" link on my website that did the same thing. Probably in the too hard box but it would be nice.</p>

<p>Zenny - thanks again for the correction.</p>

 

<p>I have been happy Zenfolio user for about two months.<br>

Pro:<br>

Dead easy....once you figure out their logic. Price assignment confused me for about a week. I spend a lot of time trying to remember where certain options are for site appearance and the "defaults" seem to have a mind of their own.<br>

Absolutely no complaints from customers on order fulfillment<br>

The 4% fee on self fulfilled orders is AWESOME. CC billing services cost WAY more.<br>

Con:<br>

I hate that customers have to create a Zenfolio account to order pictures. That is designed to drive Zenfolio memberships and not my sales.<br>

No FTP. This one really sucks. I HATE the Java uploader and the Lightroom uploader is not 100% either. FTP is such a simple, elegant solution but when I asked about it I was told there would be no FTP because it is "old" tech.<br>

Counter intuitive processes. I had to put instructions for ordering on every page and a detailed how to on cropping.</p>

<p>The only service that came close in my research was Potoshealter. The price difference was $329 vs $95. Transaction cost is 10% vs 12%. There is more value in Photoshealter for $329 but even taking that into consideration, my sales need to reach $500-$1000 a month before Photoshealter becomes better economically. <br>

So far Zenfolio is creating a good experience for my customers and that is what really counts.</p>

<p>I bought an AFG-360 and if I had it to do over, I would get a Metz. It has already been to the shop once and it is starting to act up again. When it works, it is brilliant but then it will just get "tired" and stop working right.</p>

<p>The Website Creation Forum will give you FAST, brutal feedback if you ask for it. :)<br>

If you have flash, make sure you use a redirect for non-flash users (iPhone/iPad in particular). Better still, skip flash.<br>

Im not a fan of watermarks. All you are doing is insulting your real customers. Those who would steal your images are not going to buy anyway.<br>

I would not worry as much about the impact of the site as getting it up as soon as possible. It takes roughly 2 weeks to get fully indexed in a search engine and the reality is you need about 3 months to make sure you are updated everywhere. Google Analytics doesnt really give you "analytics" until you enter your second month. You can revise a website multiple times a day to better target but until you are in the search engines and getting crawled regularly, you will not get the hits.<br>

Im sure there is a consultant who can help you out on the advertising. I probably learned the most by conducting business intelligence - I looked at the web sites of other photographers in the area. Apparently lots of unnecessary flash is a requirement to be a wedding photographer and one of the shops doing the best in town has a site that looks like it was updated in the late 90's. Colors and fonts and frames, Oh My! It didnt change the basics of my site but I decided to promote the direct sales more because no one else seemed to be doing that (Of course maybe there is a reason for that!).</p>

<p>I want to thank everyone here for the advice. I have the shoot scheduled for this week - weather permitting. I will post how it goes and how the sale portion went.<br>

In my current profession, we have a saying that "no plan last past first contact" so I should have known better than to think my "plan" would. On Saturday I got asked to shoot another family session, plus a fashion event and I have a meeting with a model for a TF shoot tomorrow. So much for shooting stock and selling seagulls and sunsets!<br>

Again, thank you.<br>

PS - Karim - I played around with white balance shooting friday. It was too windy for a reflector and shad gave it just the right gold.</p>

<p>Albert,<br>

Thank you! I already have a call scheduled for 9 am Monday.</p>

<p>Jim,<br>

Thank you for the feedback. I thought I had a business plan but I forgot that customers get a vote. I obviously need a new one.<br>

I was leaning toward skipping framing for now and you reinforced my thinking that I didnt want to carry corner samples and glass. By monday I should have some nice examples of canvas and standout mounts. I already have matting. It occured to me I dont want to get into framing "tech support" when someone has a wire fail.<br>

I just rewrote my 'base' invoice to take out the word "all" from the description of digital files. I was already thinking it would only be the good ones but that is not what people think when they read "all."<br>

I tend to forget that not everyone prefers online ordering.<br>

I have the luxury of not needing to pay bills with photography yet (thank god!). I had not thought of offering a discount for permission to use their pictures in my portfolio. That would be a handy way to keep my actual pricing in line with what I will need in the future and recognizing that this is a learning process for me. <br>

Again, thank you for the advice.</p>

<p>Ok, one more one last question - Because we havent talked price with the client should I wait until we meet again or email a proposed invoice/price list/brochure. I actually have a brochure prepared but with no prices. I told you I had a "path" :)</p>

<p>Thank you all so much.<br>

My plan is to shoot late afternoon/golden hour time. I shot my son during the early part of that time yesterday (simulate the son and dog) and I am going to shoot my wife for the later part today (it was really cold and windy yesterday). I used both a reflector and my AFG-360 mounted on camera as a fill. I need to work on the fill to get it right but the reflector went well. Silver was a bit too cold, gold a bit too warm but I could correct the gold in Lightroom easily. I shot my son in dark clothes yesterday and I plan to shoot my wife in light clothes today. No fees for the beach and it is 3 miles from my house. Living in Monterey is really nice. <br>

I am having a hard time thinking in hourly wage terms because I am almost sure I will have more trial and error than anyone with experience. Post processing I would have no problem billing for because I know my workflow and I am very proficient. I could charge 3x "normal" rate and they would still get a bargain.<br>

I am thinking of a flat $200 ($100 an hour but not stated as that. I dont want them thinking on the clock if I do need to reshoot) for the shoot and 5x cost for prints below 11 x 14, 2x for framed, mounted or canvas. <br>

I print with WHCC and Mpix (prefer WHCC) and I have samples coming from Canvas On Demand and Styla Mount (havent used them before).<br>

For the DVD I am going to build a silde show and have a folder will full size images as well as online slide show/folder. I was thinking about making the online orders 3x cost to reflect them being reorders.<br>

I am going back and forth about building a "package" or just letting them choose. I feel like a package is the way to go so they have a starting point and then can build from there but I also dont want them to get hit with sticker shock. <br>

One last question - do I need model releases from them? I dont plan to resell their pictures but can I use them for promotion of my own business if I dont have a model release? man, suddenly doing TF with models is sounding easy!<br>

Again, thank you for all you advice and thanks in advance for any additional.</p>

<p>Rob</p>

<p>OK, I checked web sites and it seems the low end is $80 for a sitting, one 8x10 and three 5x7s. I couldn't find a high end.<br>

I probably know the answer already but it seems unethical to contact studio's about their prices.</p>

<p>No, I did not account for any post processing. I have no idea what other photographers in the area charge. I had not planned on competing with them yet :)<br>

5x would generate roughly $12 per 8 x 10. I can lives with that I think. That would make 8 x 10 $15 which is really reasonable.</p>

<p>I only recently decided to "ruin my hobby" and I have a pretty detailed path I had decided on. Yesterday, my path took a shortcut.<br>

I have been asked and accepted a job shooting a family portrait session. Husband, wife, child and dog.<br>

We are going to shoot on a beach so there is no studio involved. My wife is my what people not married to a redhead would call an "assistant" but for health reason, I work for her :)<br>

I am allotting 2 hours for this. I think we will shoot at at least two locations so 10-15 minutes will be moving from one to the other.<br>

My problem is I have no idea how to structure pricing for this.<br>

My initial thought was to just price prints at 2x cost. When I realized that would generate $5 per 8 x 10 it seemed like a less than great idea.<br>

I offer framing/matting/canvas but if they choose just prints Im back to $5 a print. <br>

My next thought was a flat fee with 50% applied to print orders. Does that work?<br>

Finally, I plan to include digital copies on DVD as well as giving them an online portfolio to order additional prints (Zenfolio/Mpix).<br>

I am really at a loss. I dont want to mess this up since it is my first "family" shoot. I had not planned on doing family work so soon so everything I have set up is "art" sales/stock. Realizing that I am new, I am not looking to make a killing but at the same time, I dont want any referrals because I am the "Wal Mart" of family shoots.</p>

<p>thanks in advance,<br>

Rob</p>

<p>This is a pretty constant topic on Model Mayhem. The general consensus it to spell it out but keep in mind you should be very very very specific about what the model can do with the images from TF. You might find your model wanting the same rights you have.</p>

<p>Getty provides their release in 12 languages.<br>

http://contributors.gettyimages.com/article.asp?article_id=991</p>

 

<p>Alamy has a list of acceptable and unacceptable cameras. You will find a LOT of affordable ones on their acceptable list.<br>

Probably a no brainer but you will need Photoshop/PSE (PSE 8 is very capable). Not Paint Shop Pro, not Pixelmator. A good noise plugin (I use Nik Dfine) is pretty much an essential too. For skin I use Imagenomic Portraiture. <br>

More from Alamy - Black = 0 and White = 255. Deviate from that and your image will get rejected.<br>

Stick to the "rules" - Don't deviate too far from the rule of thirds, straight lines, etc.<br>

For commercial you have to balance detail with leaving room for text. Here the rule of "filling the frame" does not apply.<br>

Pick and area/topic and get good at it. Play to not just your strengths but the strengths of the place you live. If you live in a touristy area, shoot travel. Some of the "hot" areas right now are travel, camping, outdoor sports (cycling, skiing/snowboarding). Think about what parts of the economy are doing well and those areas are probably selling well. In the next few months political images are going to get hot.<br>

Search the existing catalog of the agency you are submitting to and see what they have. I looked for my area (Monterey CA) and found a lot of the images were out of date and/or low resolution. I made a "contact sheet" of the ones I thought I could update and I am working through those now. It keeps me shooting when I run out of ideas.<br>

Look in any magazine EXCEPT photography, fashion or travel. They all have established channels for photography. When "More" magazine (For women of a certain age) wants a picture of a billboard in the country, they are going to buy stock. <br>

Kevin is absolutely right that it is about numbers and time. Lots of images over a long period of time will normally generate sales. One thing to think about when shooting is how long the image will remain relevant. Anything in the image that can "date" it potentially limits how long it can be used. All those pictures of people at computers with monster CRT screens from the 90's are probably not making money anymore. </p>

<p>Good Luck!</p>

<p>From a US tax stand point, you would be better off billing the photographer at a normal day rate and then writing off the loss as good will or advertising. I believe that would also help with any liability/insurance issues but Im not 100% there. <br>

The tax man is going to be all over you for FICA, Medicare, workman's comp and unemployment. At best you will get hit with whatever you should have paid a minimum wage employee. At worst they can assess you taxes based on the "prevailing wage." And if they get really mean, they can hit you with a tax evasion charge.<br>

I agree with Ralph - they are not your clients if she schedules, shoots and collects. You are also setting up a nightmare scenario that many small business encounter - an employee becomes such a valuable asset that they are no longer working for you, you are working for them. Everything is great until that person decides to walk and take a huge chunk of business with them. </p>

<p>Mikael - I feel your pain on mispelling. Ive even had people "correct" forms I filled out, making it Scholl. And dammit if there are not a bunch of other Robert Sholl's who are WAY more successful than me :)<br /> I agree on the two different names. Beside the obvious difference in emphasis, if some time in the future you decide to go separate ways it one less thing to fight about (applies to all kinds of partnerships).<br>

One las thought - grab domain names "close" to yours. I have 3 I am waiting to get when they expire.</p>

<p>Mikael - I think we can all use networking but right now it is not as important to me simply because I am not at a point where I could do much referral work. Business insurance is something I need but I have health care covered. I think for the next year or so I will continue to monitor the associations and see what I like about them.<br>

For the most part, the images I am submitting to microstock agencies would have just sat on my hard drive. Microstock has been a GREAT education for me. I initially submitted my "best" images only to discover that micro's dont care about artistic quality, they want flexible images. And I also discovered my version of "sharp and noise free" was neither. The brutal feedback ("image not selected, image not selected, image not selected") was really a good thing. I think it has made me a better photographer and it has certainly made me a better editor of my own pictures. I feel like I am better equipped to submit to a "real" agency because of my micro education.<br>

Thanks again for the feedback and advice.<br>

Rob</p>

 

<blockquote>

<p>Maybe not so many that belongs to professional organizations and submit to micro-agencies. Your $.030 sale suggests you do.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>LOL. I have noticed that micro stock is not exactly popular around here :<br>

I may have answered my own question because the benefits, such as they are, dont seem that significant. Im not sure what I was expecting but I have been underwhelmed by what professional photographic associations offer. I was hoping someone here could "sell" me on a membership but so far, nothing.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Just a thought - Being exclusive is betting that the agency you choose will a) survive, b) continue to represent you, and c) continue to be a company you want to be associated with. It's putting your one egg in one basket and hoping for the best. Beyond just surviving as a business, what if the agency you choose decides to shift to a different market (from microstock to RM or from RM to microstock) and you dont want to be in that market?<br>

Granted I am just starting but I have taken a three pronged approach - two agencies and direct sales. Right now that is as many as I can really focus on and make successful. If all three fail at the same time, I probably have bigger problems. And I am not welded to those two agencies (30 day written notice to terminate). As I grow, I will add a 4th/5th selling channel to further diversify. Mutual fund laws say no stock can represent more that 20% of the value of the fund. Someone smarter than me decided that was a safe number so my long term goal is to have no one channel account for more than 20% of my income. <br>

Good Luck!</p>

<p>You could use the self fulfilling/custom product feature of Zenfolio to do this.<br>

Creat a custom product - Access Fee - and set a price. Zenfolio will process it and take 4%. You could then send a password by email to the customer.</p>

<p>Bill,<br>

As far as I can tell, the closest PPA is in San Francisco - about 2 hours away.<br>

Im guessing from the crickets here that there are not may photo.net users in a professional association.</p>