tina_manley

"Tina, not knowing how your photos are annotated (and certainly not wanting to assign you any 'projects') I'm curious to see -- insofar as we can truly see anything in this format -- how you've done with the M8 at 2 stops under. Is it easy to point us to one or two like that ?"

Here you go, Michael (as you probably know, the EXIF can't read apertures from the M8 so it always reads 1.0 - obviously wrong unless I've used the Noctilux.) These three are two stops under:

http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/97740874

and

http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/97738025

and

http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/97736840

I just got back last night from Honduras where I made quite a few at -2, but I'm still downloading those. I'll post them to my website when I finish. I took over 3000 photos so it may be awhile ;-)

"It's fantastic that you're willing to get into it with the Internet pundits."

Thanks, Andy! I've often regretted getting involved. ;-) It's like knocking my head against a brick wall!! I do enjoy a good argument, though, and it's worth reading the forum for some of the resulting links - like yours!

Tina

"What about in the evening when the light goes down?"

I use my fast Leica M lenses on my M8. If it's really dark, I underexpose by 2 stops. I certainly get as good or better results than I used to get with 1600 TMax!!

Tina

"I'd be interested to know why Tina takes a Canon along with her M8's?"

If you read my answers in the forum, you will see that my Canons have been gathering dust on my shelves since the

M8 came out. When I use the Canons, it is only for photos when the SLR has advantages over the rangefinder

(Macro and telephoto). Even then, I use Leica R lenses on my Canons. When Leica comes out with the R10, I'll

give my Canons to my daughter.

Tina

Hi, Travis - all of them were shot with Leica M's - some before the M8 came out though, with everything from an

M3 to an M7. The Summaron and M8 combination is one of my favorites, when I have enough light. It's the one I

keep on one camera when I'm traveling because it's so small and light.

Hi, Ray - Thanks. I only used Canons after I switched to digital and before M8s came out. They are now gathering

dust on my shelves and will probably be passed down to my daughter. My favorite Canon lens was the 85/1.2, but

that lens on the 1DMII requires weight lifting exercises. It's not one I would travel with and is certainly not a

subtle camera/lens combination!

Tina

"your photos (at least the ones I looked at) don't appear to have been made in a high stress, rushed, or

environmentally challenging environment."

Which photos did you look at? Iraq? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/faces_of_iraq

Central America? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/portfolio&page=all

or even South Carolina? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/73285000

"And while absolutely superior corner to corner sharpness may be of value, I doubt it's something most

professional photographers, publishers, readers, or even those attending gallery shows are concerned about to the

extent you appear to be."

Any professional photographer who submits photos to stock agencies, knows that they are examined corner to corner

at 100% and rejected if not absolutely sharp with no fringing or CA. I have had photos rejected when using

Canon's, even with prilme L lenses. My Leica photos are always accepted.

Again, just my experience, but my experience is what I have to go on.

Tina.

"your photos (at least the ones I looked at) don't appear to have been made in a high stress, rushed, or environmentally challenging environment."

Which photos did you look at? Iraq? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/faces_of_iraq

Central America? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/portfolio&page=all

or even South Carolina? http://www.pbase.com/tinamanley/image/73285000

"And while absolutely superior corner to corner sharpness may be of value, I doubt it's something most professional photographers, publishers, readers, or even those attending gallery shows are concerned about to the extent you appear to be."

Any professional photographer who submits photos to stock agencies, knows that they are examined corner to corner at 100% and rejected if not absolutely sharp with no fringing or CA. I have had photos rejected when using Canon's, even with prilme L lenses. My Leica photos are always accepted.

Again, just my experience, but my experience is what I have to go on.

Tina.

"For the pros, they don't need that particular niche and are much happier with a 1DsMKIII or II or 5D or D3 or whatever and it serves them better. But psychology is a powerful thing. Maybe you really do take better pictures with the M8. That wouldn't really mean it's a better camera, just better for you."

I have a 1DMII and a 5D. I've compared the photos from corner to corner at 100% and there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the M8 produces vastly superior results. (Not to mention even being able to get the photos I want in the first place.) Psychology has absolutely nothing to do with it; however, as I said, that is strictly my opinion based on my experience. YMMV.

Tina Manley,

"And it's only human nature to try to defend your decision (and you probably have been worn down by people constantly making you defend your decision). But M8 is not a rational purchase for most people looking for a good camera -- not at the price (regardless of whether it's "worth" it)."

My first M8 paid for itself in 3 months so I bought a second one. That one paid for itself in less than a month. I don't need to defend or justify the purchases. It took much longer for my film Leica's to balance out the account but then I included the cost of film, chemicals, and mounting. I've never regretted buying any Leica camera or lens.

Tina Manley

>Brad said: If leica "delivered" a truly innovative and superb camera, I would ***absolutely*** consider it.

It does and you should. Cameras are not cars, bicycles, suits, computers or phones. You have to learn to use them. You only learn through experience. Nobody can tell you from a manual how to use a camera. You have to use it to learn it based on its pluses and minuses. The M8 has many more pluses than minuses. If you don't use it enough to find that out, you should not condemn the camera because of your inexperience with it.

Tina Manley

Dear François P. Weill,

Thank you for your comments. I have used Leica rangefinders for over 30 years and don't believe that any other

camera could give me the results I want under the same circumstances. In fact, when I switched to digital,

before the M8 came out, I used Canon's - the 1DMII and 5D. I was so glad when Leica developed the M8 and I could

go back to my rangefinders and Leica lenses. If you think that in most of my photos, the subjects are aware of

the camera, then you haven't seen all of my photos. It's true that the best fund-raising photos have the

subjects looking into the camera and that is a lot of the work I do; however, all of my favorite photos are made

after sitting quietly in a corner for several days until the family forgets I'm there and goes on about their

everyday life. The Leica's, even M8's, are perfect for that kind of work - durable, quiet, unobtrusive. I could

never be invisible with the Canon's. That is just my experience and my opinion, YMMV.

To the guy who doubted that my M8's were soaked and are still working, I invite you to come to Honduras with me

and walk up a mountain for an hour in a torrential downpour, crossing several raging streams, lose your footing

on the rocks and end up underwater with two M8's hanging from your shoulders. Then stay, dripping wet, in a

one-room house made of sticks with a mud floor and 100% humidity for several days. My M8's were about as wet as

they could get and never stopped working. In 25 years of coming to Honduras, this is the worst rainy season I've

ever seen. I really doubt that either of my Canon's would still be working, even if I could have carried them up

the mountain. I'm still in Honduras and it's still raining. I hope to have quite a few photos to post on my

website when I get home that will show that my M8's are still working fine.

I really don't understand all of the hate directed toward the M8's. As someone else said, if you don't like it,

don't buy it. Don't condemn the camera if you have not used it enough to know it.

Tina Manley,