jo_dinning

Federica - most photographers who receive this type of request will be unlikely to take the job unless you are prepared to pay their standard fee, especially given that your wedding date is in June. It is not worth a photographer's while to photograph your wedding over someone else's for a reduced fee at that time of the year.

 

Most couples who start out with such a statement then request that they pay a much reduced fee.

 

From a photographer's point of view, it is unlikely that they will end up only taking so few images - as far as they are concerned, they will be there for the duration, likely turning down other work that day (you can't attend two weddings at 1pm), and producing as many good images as they can. They may also be hoping to sell prints to guests. So it has to be worth doing.

 

My suggestion is to offer the photographers you approach their full fee, or enquire at your local college whether there are any photography students willing to expand their portfolio for a couple of hours work. Alternatively, you could ask a competent family member. I am sure that you will find a someone to photograph your wedding, but if you want a professional you have to pay professional rates.

You could look at the Ilford range of papers which have a good reputation as well as a range of finishes, see

http://www.firstcall-photographic.co.uk/categories/inkjet-photo-paper/82/2

 

I'm sceptical though that you are able to produce better quality on an inkjet than through your lab - I have a high end

A3 printer but would still go for quality lab prints every time for clients. You also need to consider longevity and for

this reason alone I would be cautious when selling inkjet prints to clients, especially in wedding albums. Cost really

doesn't come into it if quality isn't comparable IMO.

This is the sort of trigger you may need Alice (this is a UK site but you'll be able to get these where you are I'm sure) http://www.speedgraphic.co.uk/prod.asp?i=17415&1=Sunpak+DSU-1+Digital+Slave+Trigger

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

You may find this webpage useful before using the likes of the Vivitar 5200 with a digital slr (if that's what you're using).

I assumed that Alice meant that she was using a flash on a hotshoe with the other two set up as extra lights either side...

I don't have the flashguns that you mention above, but usually there has to be the option of using one as the main

trigger and the others as slaves. Some of the older flashguns don't have this capability so they would need an infra-

red trigger to set them off (these can be bought from your local retailer). Even with that you may have issues with

balancing the light output as setting one may cut the output of the others - for example if you use an auto setting.

Have you tried a three-way sync cable connected to the pc socket with all the flashguns set to a manual mode?

 

BTW - not all older flashguns are compatible with digital cameras - so check before connecting them up - you don't

want to be frying your equipment.

 

Some of the modern flashguns are designed to be used in the way you describe - for example Canon 580EX as the

main light with a 430EX as a slave.

Interesting comments. In view of Nadine's last remark it seems ironic that as photographers we are held in greater

suspicion and more red tape than ever in public places whilst the public at large seem to shoot everything

everywhere with carefree abandon on their camera phones, a law only to themselves!

The amount of prints I sell post-wedding is worth my while - as well as ensuring that there are parts of the day that I

have exclusive images of, my view is that since I've taken the images and edited them, I may as well sell them as

prints to those that want them. Most orders are placed within three months of the wedding, but some prints are

ordered up to a year afterwards, and as long as the wedding is still 'selling' I leave it online - I'm paying for my

webspace anyway.

 

It's no big deal to be arranging extra prints because I still offer traditional albums with prints and

enlargements as part of my packages so I'm ordering prints anyway - two birds with one stone etc. I include a CD

presentation with most of my packages, but for those who want the high-res images, the pricing covers what I would

expect to lose from print sales. My smaller prints are priced so that I make a profit regardless, with larger prints

being relatively cheaper - so it is tempting for clients to order the more profitable prints anyway - good for them, good

for me. Most of my clients specifically ask me whether I offer prints for sale to guests - maybe the

packages/products I offer attract a certain type of client. I suppose it's horses for courses - it works for me but I can

see that this approach won't work for every business. But you won't know unless you try it.

The Metz mecablitz 48 AF-1 digital for Olympus is a good flashgun for the money, even new. More details of Metz flashguns for for the E-500 can be found here:

 

http://www.metz.de/en/photo-electronics/flashlight-recommendations.html

Sorry didn't mean to duplicate a post there - Nadine was typing at the same time it seems!

Get call-screening and don't take their calls; temporarily put their email addresses on your blocked senders list. You'll only waste time getting back to them and by doing so, you indicate to them that it's acceptable for them to pester you. Just don't entertain it. The images will be ready soon enough, and the first folk to get them should be the B&G, not the mothers.

Well I'll stick my neck out and give an answer. I don't speak German at all and couldn't find any specific weddings

despite trying a few options - perhaps this is why you have had very few reponses. It would be better next time if you

were able to direct us to a specific page which is a wedding gallery or someone's wedding etc. So I will simply give

my impressions of your opening page which had a flash loop of wedding pics - I'm assuming this is what you wanted

the commentary on.

 

1. Compositionally I like your images generally, but I agree with David that they are overall too dark - skin tones,

backgrounds and shadows - the couple in the doorway is a prime example of this. Especially the B&W images.

Perhaps it is just a matter of getting the contrast right in some cases as there are a few blown highlights there too.

I'd be lifting some of the midtones to get more detail in the mid shadow areas and work to get skin tones right - aim

to get your digital images with the same sort of balance as if you were working with them in a darkroom.

 

2. The webpage layout looks fine to me.

 

3. You should provide an option for visitors to turn off the music.

 

4. You have used the same frame surround for every image - perhaps it won't be noticed, however 'frame 17 3768

Ilford FP4 Plus' is on every image. Apart from having these surrounding your colour images aswell (!) it's a detail I'd

rather not have my eye drawn to - so either vary your frames, or remove the details from them.

 

Hope these comments are useful.

I shoot weddings and portraits professionally and have a Canon set-up. But I also have a Panasonic DMC-L1 with the

14-150mm lens which I bought for my own hobby use, mainly for landscapes and wildlife. I also have the 14-50mm

lens that was a part of the original kit that I bought. I've had some cracking landscapes at A3 size from RAW images

and as is so often the case, if you are familiar with your system and know what its capabilities/limitations are then of

course great results are always possible.

 

I haven't been at all disappointed in my choices with 4/3; the only comment being that it was a lot of cash to shell

out initially given the spec at the time compared to the competition (probably due to the Leica association). However,

I love the manual controls (traditional shutter and aperture selections) and this is what attracted me - I started

photography with an OM-1n (which I still have) and believe it to be the ideal camera in so many respects, despite

using various other makes and film formats over the years (including Rolleiflex, Canon, Fuji, Bronica and Mamiya). In

recent times I kept saying 'if only the OM-1n was digital'.

 

So for me, I wanted a camera that had a traditional feel (and for me intuitive) with less emphasis on the use of

menus; combined with an acceptable level of spec for me as a photographer. Combine this with the quality Leica

lenses available and the choice of other Oly lenses should I want them it was a done deal with the L1. I also

appreciated the concept of several manufacturers working to the same standard with integrated items. The 'A'

automatic settings on the shutter dial and aperture rings is also a great feature on the L1 and very intuitive in use. It's

a pity that the 4/3 system is so often underrated and compared negatively to Nikon/Canon etc because it's actually a

great little system that can work very well for most people.

I find that not a wedding goes by without comment or question by someone about gear - my usual reply is that it's not the gear but what I do with it that makes my photography a success. And I truly believe this - use whatever you like to get great results; but that's the point - they must be great results, and each individual photographer has to feel comfortable with what they use.

 

So in a nutshell Bob, no it's not overkill - I wish I had a 1ds mk3! Sounds like the comment was sour grapes to me.

 

As for the video - nice idea but not really sure what I'd do with it - at the end of the day I'm at a wedding to take stills, and if I'm taking stills I can't do video as well (or vice versa) - so I'd be missing something out either way. Plus all that editing - there's enough already. However, never say never: several years ago I was swearing I'd never leave film for digital because I was convinced the quality would never be there and look what's happened since then...

Glad this has worked out James - thanks for letting us know.

From a technical point of view, there are a few blown highlights as has been previously mentioned. I also agree that

there aren't too many detail dress shots which could be an understandable complaint.

 

However - I assume that the high-key feel is an element of your shooting style and that this bride & groom hired you

on the basis of similar samples that they had viewed. Also on the plus side is the fact that the images are nicely

composed on the whole and seem to include a happy couple having a good time.

 

I don't think I would take this complaint too much to heart as regards your photographic skills. On the other hand, if I

were you I would offer a reshoot of the outdoor session on the basis that the bride is able to tell you specifically what

she wants - perhaps she is looking for a more traditional outdoor setting with formal poses - only she can direct you

with that. But I would also make it clear at this time that whilst you will happily do a reshoot on this occasion, you

are absolutely satisfied with the quality of the work you have produced for the couple so far and that your images are

representative of the style that you show as samples. In no way should a discount/refund start to enter discussions.

 

As an aside for the future, I think it is often worth asking the bride whether she wishes to view some of the shots that

you have taken so far (if you are working in digital), and whether the couple are happy with the shoot or do they have

anything else in mind? That way you've covered your bases and you have ensured that the couple have got

everything they want from the occasion.

James - you've spoken to the pastor, your former employer and your client - but at no point have you spoken to the B&G - the two people who matter most IMO.

 

On the one hand you say "I have beeenhooting weddings for the past 10 years and never had this happen without the couple knowing." and then "I have shoot weddings about 8 years ago just to build my portfolio without ever being invited."

 

Further "and have been td not to disclose the client until delivery of the pictures"

 

Firstly, it appears that you've made up your mind based on the money you will be receiving - that's of course up to you, but perhaps you were looking for justification to take the money and run and haven't received it here. So good luck in your decision - you've justified it to yourself and that's all that matters.

 

However, there is no reason why you couldn't at least approach the B&G, legals aside, and present with the good manners to ask whether they would object to you taking photos at their wedding. You are after all a professional, not an amateur building your portfolio anymore. There is no reason why you have to disclose the client - you simply get permission from the B&G to attend and take photographs. There is a flip side to this: if the B&G have not arranged a photographer, it may be nice to get the B&G involved so that the best images can be supplied - what a fantastic and generous wedding present that would be with approval in all camps.

 

You're hoping that there won't be a pro there who will recognise you - but this is not guaranteed, and of course people talk anyway. I still think it is worth reviewing this one on the basis that you are only as good as your last shoot - and if this goes wrong, or there are tears and tempers on the day, you may not work again - whether you are legally covered or not.

 

Just my thoughts - I genuinely hope it works out for everyone involved.

BTW, I should also ask: what happens if you agree, go along on the day, and get asked to leave by the B&G? You will not be able to fulfil your contract to your client anyway and may have to issue a refund. Save yourself the hassle and short cut to 'no'.

One of the wonderful things about shooting weddings for a living is that you have been invited by the B&G to take a special role in their big day.

 

Like others here I doubt that you will do the best job without the involvement of the B&G, and you may be treading on the toes of the other photographer. When you start to think of the legal minefields here the implications are never ending.

 

But legal issues aside - the most important thing is that the B&G may not want you there - it is their day, and they say who is there and what happens.

 

You said "I really don't like this setup but they paid if full up front for my services" - just because they paid up front is no reason to make a bad business decision, nor does it justify taking a job that you acknowledge you are uncomfortable with.

 

Do the right thing: give the money back and decline the job; make it clear to the client that unless you get the express say-so of the B&G, you will be unable to take this job on.

"how do you daytime Manual mode supporters defend this argument?" Answer - by being good at what you do.

 

Like others here, I have no wish to suggest what others should use - choices are available to cater for different styles

and tastes - everyone to their own.

 

Weddings do follow a format however (often dictated by others - venue, minister, B&G - not the photographer!) and

usually pros are familiar with the venues they shoot. So it is quite possible to predict the requirements for each

situation from a lighting point of view.

 

Manual all the way for me.

Happy people having a good time. People looking good surrounded by families and friends. The whole mix is there - formals, candids, singles, groups - they all sell equally well. So not one particular thing other than the common sense obvious that folk will only buy a photo of themselves and loved ones that they all look good/happy in.

 

The other issue is of course that some folk will be looking to buy a print and others not - those that are looking to buy will do so on the above basis; for others it won't matter - they wouldn't buy a print anyhow.

 

Summary: good photos sell themselves to those that want them.

Regardless of whether the bride gets hold of the negs the original photographer retains the copyright. I wouldn't touch

this with a bargepole - politely say no and suggest that the bride sort this out with her original photographer - it

seems all too complicated to me and a little bit cheeky of the bride given that she turned you down the first time.

Why should you have to step in and sort this problem out for a pittance anyway? Don't you have enough of your own

work to do without sorting out this other stuff?

 

You could always offer to shoot some post-wedding portraits to ensure that the bride and groom have some nice

shots of themselves in their wedding outfits, and then offer them online for extra print sales to the family and guests.

["The food caterer, wedding cake baker, wedding venue, etc. get their fees in full before the event - so should you."

 

However, they all deliver the completed product on the event date. The photographer doesn't deliver the product for several weeks or months after the event.]

 

The photographer does however deliver their services on the day of the event - you should always take your fee upfront - just not necessarily all at the time of booking. I've known of a couple of folk providing services for weddings who asked for payment on the day - and never got it - everyone too busy or passing the buck to someone else to deal with.

 

Regardless of what deliverables remain to be produced, once the wedding is over there is much less incentive for the B&G to pay out - after all, they're married, have fabulous recent memories of their day and possibly feel that Uncle Bob got a few decent shots to give them a reminder. And they realise that the loan has to start being paid off next month.

 

Bob's right about gearing wedding packages to what people can afford - you can always make weddings more affordable by including less items and coverage but retaining good standards and your expected rate of pay - not sure I'd rely on a handshake these days though!

Everyone gets a little nervous - it comes from wanting to do your best. But I had so much fun the first wedding I shot

that I forgot about my nerves and had a great time. You're only nervous at the moment because you're thinking rather

than doing - as soon as the camera's in your hands and you're working away you'll be so focussed on the event you'll

forget your nerves.

 

It's also worth mentioning that although you're worried about you, it's not really your day - it's the Bride & Groom's big

day. Focus on making their day special in your own small way and your focus will be more outward than inward.

 

Get your gear prepared with a list of shots put aside and then get a good night's sleep and look after yourself - that's

my advice - that way everything else will take care of itself. Hope it goes well (but it will of course).