jon_krasner

Thanks for all your responses. Just to confirm, she cancelled the check AND has the product in her hand! This is what I am upset about. It's essentially stealing in my opinion. I have no use for the album, unfortunately, as I already made my own beautiful sample album from her wedding.

I was hoping to get some feedback on a serious issue I am having with a client. I designed a coffee table album for a

bride, sent her pdfs of the layout, and she approved everything after several rounds of changes. There was a

miscommunication between the bride and myself, and I didn't realize that she didn't want small black borders around

the individual photos (she wanted no border). In our email correspondence about the black border, I assured her it

would not be there (I thought she was talking about something else), so I essentially made a mistake. I didn't realize

there was a mistake until she went home and emailed me that she was very disatisified with the black borders

around the photos. I told her that it was a miscommunication and that I often put borders around photos in coffee

table albums, but in the end I wanted her to be happy. She wrote back the next day and said that she was really

unhappy with the album, went ahead and cancelled the check (which is the 50% balance of the album), and will

return the album but wants it redone. I am very frustrated that she cancelled the check before a) not speaking to me

and b) with the album in her posession.

 

My question: How do you receive payment for albums from clients--before the album is done or a deposit and then

the balance when picking up? Have you ever had to redo an album for a client? How did they approach you with their

unhappiness and how did you deal with it? What is your method for clients "signing off" on an album design/layout?

 

Sorry for the long response. I have such great relationships with my clients, and although she was always a difficult

bride, I'm really angry with her aggressive behavior with the cancelled check. In the end this is part of business, but I

want to prevent this from happening again. Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance!!! Jon & Kristine

Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. This advice gives me lots to think about. I

appreciate the input.

Hello,

 

I know this is quite a dramatic statement, but I am really becoming disillusioned with my wedding

business. This is my 4th year doing this full-time, and I have started to really hate certain aspects of my

job. I thought I would ask for your advice. What do I hate?

 

1) I hate negotiating and talking about money with clients. I am bad at sales & business in general.

2) I hate ordering albums for clients as some of them become really controlling and neurotic in the

process. (You can see another post I wrote a few minutes ago about this)

3) I hate all of the administrative work (back and forth emails) I have with clients. I am tired to sitting in an

office 80% of the time.

 

However, I love shooting. I really, really have a great time the day of the wedding. My clients love their

experience working with me and give me glowing referrals and references. I enjoy meeting with potential

clients besides the sale part. I don't love the idea of working for a studio as I want my images to be mine.

I take pride in my style and don't want to have to compromise this or feel like I've lost my identity.

 

I could go into commercial or editorial photography. I have a foot in the door there. I would probably miss

shooting weddings, but I would be a much happier person not dealing with all of the things I don't enjoy.

 

Sorry for the long email. I really appreciate any feedback you have. Thank you in advance!

 

Kristine

 

PS: I use a pen name on photo.net so that potential client don't see my posts if they google me!

Hi Fellow Photographers,

 

I am getting frustrated with some of my clients as they order their albums. Whether it's a matted or a

coffee table album, I send them a pdf of the layout to review. Some clients take 3-6 months to get back

to me on changes they want to make. Other clients want to make 20 changes in an album, and some of

these changes are so minor (cropping an image 1/8 of an inch), that it is making me insane! It could be

the region I work in (NYC), but I am tired and loosing my mind with these controlling brides. I now realize

that I need to make restrictions on albums. What sort of change fees and restrictions do you give to

clients?

 

Thanks in advance.

Hello Photographers,

 

I think I am severely undercharging for my albums, so I wanted to get some feedback. Currently, I offer

two different types of albums: Leather Craftsmen matted album (800 series) and The Cypress Medium

Album. I charge $1,000 for one of these albums which includes 60-70 photos, and my expenses come out

to about $700-$800 for the prints, album, and shipping. My time: I spend 1-2 hours meeting with the

client, 2-3 hours designing the album and sending them a pdf of the design, 1/2 hour making any

changes if they want, 1 hour ordering the prints, 1 hour trimming and packaging the prints. It's a lot of

work for little return. What am I doing wrong? I appreciate your advice. Thanks!

Album companies don't typically give out pricing to consumers (brides and grooms) or allow

consumers to purchase albums themselves. However, if they want a simple, inexpensive

album they can try mypublisher.com or a mac.com book.

Hi Fellow Wedding Photographers:

 

Here's my poll:

 

1) How long have you been shooting weddings full time?

2) How do you receive most of your leads?

3) What is your rate of success in closing a sale (with a new client)?

4) Where do you live/work?

 

My answers:

 

1) This will be my 4th year shooting full time

2) About 70% advertisement in a magazine and 30% word of mouth

3) About 40-50% success in closing a deal after meeting a potential client. No one ever signs at the initial

meeting.

4) New York City

 

Thanks for partaking in this poll!

Thanks for everyone's very helpful responses. I think it is time for me to find new

assistants/second shooters. I don't require the second shooter to edit or process the work.

They show up and shoot. They don't help me with any of the post-production or

preparation for the shoots. That being said, both people I have used for the past year and

a half are very good photographers and are capable of being a primary shooter. I just can't

afford it anymore. They shoot too much (about 1,000 images a wedding) which I edit down

to 150-200. A lot of the shots are redudant to what I have. The only time I really need

them is when the groom is getting ready and during the reception. The mistake I made is

that I started having a second shooter without raising my rates. What does everyone else

do? Charge extra for a second or include it with the package? I feel like a lot of my clients

expect a second shooter, but maybe it doesn't have to be someone so experienced?

I agree, I think they are getting paid too much. I also do let them use the work for their

portfolio. One of my second shooters (who I don't use anymore unless I am in a bind) thought

that $400 was too little and that he has heard photographers paying $500-$800 for their

second shooter. I think I need to start looking for new people to work with!

Hello,

 

I wanted to know what is the range that people pay their second shooters/assistant? I pay $400 for an

8-10 hour day and slightly more if the travel is more than 45 minutes away. Also, I have been paying all of

their cabs (I'm in NYC) to and from the location which averages $30-$75 per wedding. I charge about

$3,000 a wedding right now, and I don't feel like I can justify this expense. My clients don't pay additional

for this second shooter, although they know that someone else will be there taking pictures with me. Any

opinions about this? I am just feeling frustrated because of all the work I do and it just seems all of my

money is going towards expenses...Thanks in advance!

Dear Friends,

 

I had a feeling this might be an interesting thread. Many thanks for your feedback. Since

my meeting with them, I received a thank you email from BOTH the bride and groom,

letting me know how much they appreciated that I was open to hearing their concerns

about the pictures. I've also decided to do post-production on some of the photos and

send them the new proofs. If I felt that in any way, the pictures I took of them were sub-

par, I would completely offer to do them over. I know that they were just fixated on how

you could see their very small (believe me, they are probably just 30 years old!) wrinkles

near the eyes, so I am having a friend help me get rid of this in PS. They were also

concerned that the proofs looked a little dull, so I am going to add some warmth to all of

the photos and print them on a glossier paper. I think they will be much happier with the

new set of proofs. And on the wedding day? I still might shoot more film than I usually do,

but, regardless, I will be super conscious of their sensitivity and make sure the light is

extremely flattering on them. The biggest thing I have learned is that you can't please

everyone, but how you deal with an unhappy client is extremely important.

Thanks for all the responses. I can't show you the pictures because I don't want them to

ever find out about this post. However, the pictures that they were unhappy with were the

close-up ones I did for their wedding announcement. I used mostly natural light outside

with a slight fill for their eyes. You can see small crow's feets around their eyes in these

shots, and I probably should have put a blur in PS instead of sharpening, which is what I

did. I might test these filters people are mentioning. My style is definitely more natural,

but perhaps a little blur in camera or post might do the trick. I think in general the e-

photos, particularly the more candid ones, were beautiful. Very intimate and sweet. I know

in this business we deal with a lot of people who are not used to being photographed and

may be self-conscious of their appearances. I know on their wedding day, with

professional hair & make-up and a conscious effort on my part to soften their features

(without creating out of focus photos!), they will be very happy with their pictures. It's just

these occassional criticisms that are sometimes hard to take!!!

I had no idea I was meeting my client to discuss their disatisfaction with the photos.

Otherwise, I would have prepared myself! I shoot with the nikon d2x and f100 series. The

quality is there...I sometimes think film can be more forgiving.

Hi Everyone,

 

I have a client that is unhappy with the engagement portraits I took of them recently. They met with me to

review the proofs I sent them to point out what they disliked. Specifically, they thought the pictures were

too crisp and didn't flatter them!!! The mentioned that you could see all of their imperfections (wrinkles,

etc.) The couple showed me some poor quality shots taken of them by friends/family to show how they

looked better in those shots!! Nonetheless, I told them I appreciated their honesty and would be more

conscious on their wedding day of this and make an effort to shoot more film since it is more flattering. I

am writing to get others opinions on this situation. Has this happened to you? Do you think digital can

sometimes make facial details too crisp? I know I can soften this in post-production, but I don't want to

have to do this...Anyway, any advice or experiences you have to tell would be appreciated!!! Thanks.