personalphotos

<p>I agree with most of the comments above and think you should read over this thread a few times to rethink your business practices.</p>

<p>What you have here is cheap clients who want a cheap $400 price and expect a high end $2000-3000 product. You continue to charge prices like this, expect clients like this. Every single time I book a cheap date (maybe to fill an empty time slot or whatever) I get the same customer. They expect the world for nothing and are the first to complain about everything from delivery to some random missed shot that was never discussed. This type of customer does not respect what you do and will never respect the work. They only see the money and how cheap the deal is. Keep charging these rates and you'll keep getting this customer.</p>

<p>You need to look at every aspect of your shooting and business.<br>

1) You shoot too many images and are not spending a moment each time to make sure you get a good shot of the scene. Spray and pray is no guarantee of good results. An experienced shooter will have a 'keeper' rate of 50% or better. For a day like this and 650 delivered top quality images, you should have shot maybe 12-1300 images. Making sure each shot was as good as you can produce.</p>

<p>2) A better understanding of light and lighting to ensure the images produced are flattering. If they aren't, they should be deleted. Don't deliver something that shows dark under eye regions etc just because you think they should have that shot anyway. You could deliver 500 great images and 100 poor ones. What do they see? They see 100 poor images that, in their eyes, make the rest look less than they really are.</p>

<p>3) More natural editing. This "Instagram" style is a fad that will soon pass and already has people very tired of the look. That style will not stand the test of time. Solid natural or B&W shots are what people want 10 years from now. Not this over exposed, pee green-yellow stuff that passes for stylish editing.</p>

<p>4) $10/hour working time (39hrs/$400) plus 2 days travel time? Assuming you pay taxes, insurance and amortize you equipment costs. You may not know it but you lost money on this and similar deals. I calculate $1500/year in equipment wear and tear plus other costs each year. That all works out to about $250 depreciated value and costs (insurance, web site and other costs) per wedding. So based on that, you earned $150 less taxes for 3 days work. Subtract the $100 you'll never get from these people and you made $50 for 3 days. Get a job at a local coffee shop and make more money.<br>

Charge more, work less and get better clients who won't take 25% as a hold back cost because you didn't totally satisfy them.</p>

<p>In this case, write it off. Do not spend any more time on this and close the book on this wedding. Look at every part of what you are doing and stop charging $1.50/hr rates.</p>

<p>I agree with what David and Curt have said, have a face to face and get to the root of this and then follow the advice given above. If you can find out for sure who said waht and what they said, then you have a demonstrable case that these comments have done you harm, go after them through an attorney.</p>

<p>Finally as Curt mentioned, your contract must state that it's a "retainer" and if you use the word deposit, then you have no choice but to refund the money less your outlined expenses, that's the law since you can not hold her (the balance less already accrued costs) to services you have not yet provided.</p>

<p>She may have written the cheque but did she sign the contract? In many cases for all of us, the parents may be involved in, or completely pay for, many of the wedding vendors. Just because they paid for the services doesn't mean they had anything to do with the contracts or guidance from the couple that booked you.</p>

<p>So assuming that's the case, your obligations are only to the couple who signed your contract. You were hired to work for them and to satisfy their requirements. It's up to them to keep any guests, including close family happy with the photos they want. You should not in any circumstances now begin to have discussions with a 3rd party even if they did pay the full price of your services. Refer this back to the bride.</p>

<p>Something short either by in person or phone if possible and quickly or by email if the couple are not available otherwise. <br /> Along the lines of:</p>

<blockquote>

<p><br /> "Dear Bride, I just got a note from XXX regarding the photography coverage. We reviewed the images provided and feel we worked hard to get good coverage of all the important people and family members involved with your wedding. I would like to discuss this further with you as soon as you are available to call."<br /> Your photographer</p>

</blockquote>

<p><br /> There may be many reasons for this note you got that have nothing to do with you. Insecurity, or she likes to be the centre of attention (Isn't a wedding about the couple in the first place?) or she's the matriarch and has a difficult time being part of the group instead of the leader of the family. Maybe she doesn't like the other family or MOG (that's a big reason to only talk to the couple that hired you). Maybe she felt her daughter shouldn't have married..... There could be a whole host of family issues you could never know about with only a few hours interacting with them.</p>

<p>Under no circumstances should you discuss this with anyone before talking to those who signed the contract. You should also not provide any more images than you already have. It's an admission you do not want to imply.</p>

<p>Leah I didn't check your profile and if you post here often or this is a first time, but be very careful what you say here if you've used your real name. this is a public forum.</p>

<p>I would also offer to write a report on my opinion of the work if you can set up a private gallery. If you have a Gmail account, then load the images on Picasa and send them out to David above and me using the "only people with the link" viewing option. That way you control the viewers. My email is peterzack1961[at]yahoo.com (replace the [at] with @)<br /> <br />I'll reserve comment on much more of this until I see the work and we need to see every image you got, not just the "bad ones". If what you say is true, then forget the refund request, hire a lawyer and go for damages. Photographers have insurance for a reason.</p>

<p>Note to Moderators, if the OP is using her real name, it should be changed</p>

<p>Yes, that's why I said it was perfect. He's only 3-4 metres from a sign that is clear and facing him, yet he ignores it entirely. Photographers are supposed to be observers of their surroundings and "see more than the average person" but I guess not so much with a videographer. :)</p>

<p>Perfect!. Glad he's one of those hated videographers and not the highly respected photographer types. :)</p>

<p>Wayne, sorry but you are kidding right? What was launch price like around 2 years ago? What as the price at the beginning of 2012?</p>

<p>-That was rhetorical......</p>

<p>Michelle, tell us how it went.</p>

<p>Although our advice may sound conflicting, its not. 1/60th is fine when things are more or less stationary and I'm suggesting 1/100th if people are walking up or down the aisle or moving faster on the dance floor etc.</p>

<p>I will mention though that my Nikons set the shutter speed at 1/60th in iTTL mode when the camera is in "P" mode. You loose control over the camera settings and it's making the decisions on aperture for you but it will try to assess the light available and adjust according;y. Not perfect to be certain but if you are having trouble, this is still a good 'fall-back' choice to at least get the shots you might miss while shooting in manual. Flash shooting correctly takes time, practice and experience and you don't have that luxury with a wedding today.</p>

<p>Again, do whatever it takes to test shoot in both Manual and P modes to see what they do. Also, I should have been more clear and Marc is right, a diffuser limits you to about 15 feet but you said you would be using an 18-55mm lens and I'd assume that you'll be fairly close to the subjects much of the time.</p>

<p>I have no idea if the flash is iTTL or not but if it is, when in doubt, you can always use the P mode and have the flash in iTTL. Otherwise, follow Matt's advice. Shoot manually and chimp a lot. Bring plenty of memory cards and tons of batteries. Take more shots than you might normally.</p>

<p>I understand Matt's advice about shooting flash at low shutter speeds but caution against going much below 1/60th or even 1/100th if you are not familiar with the pitfalls. Flash shooting is like 2 exposures in one. The aperture controls the flash light captured by the sensor and the shutter speed controls the ambient light captured by the sensor. So if the light is decent and you use a slow shutter speed, you risk getting halos or ghost light around moving subjects because the sensor has enough light to capture ambient reflected light off a face etc. One of the reasons you would use a slow shutter speed is to keep the backgrounds as bright as possible and try to balance that with the flash on the subject. If the people are moving, keep the shutter speed at 1/100th or more.</p>

<p>If possible, velcro a white card to the flash head and point the flash upwards to diffuse the light. Power is reduced but the light is softer and doesn't produce the typical hard shadows. If you have a "tupperware" diffuser that might have come with the flash, use that if the subjects are not too far away.</p>

<p>If there is any possible chance to get inside the church tomorrow before you have to meet up with the bride, then take an hour inside the church to try testing settings and what your flash can do.</p>

<p>If not, try to finish the bridal prep shots early and get to the church early enough to take test shots of the guests walking up and down the aisle. Practice as much as possible. Check with the minister about house rules and flash shooting during the actual service. You may not be allowed. Absolutely remember that the minister sees this as a religious service first and a marriage ceremony second. They don't want a circus of your flash firing every 10 seconds or you running around disturbing things. Being respectful of the space is very important if you or other photographers want to shoot there in future. Because of inexperienced shooters, several churches in my market don't allow any photography at all once the service begins.</p>

<p>Practice at home as much as possible, flash direct, flash diffused, flash bounced. You've taken on a challenging shoot without experience. Good luck.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Dave, First look 2 is by far the better shot. It has all the elements of version one with the addition of the grooms reaction and that is key. </p>

<p>Marcus, let me clarify, if as an example, a button failed on a camera or a dial stopped working and I got that repaired, fine I have no issue using that again after authorized repair. Chances are, the repaired unit will be as good as new with replacement parts.</p>

<p>But if I dropped a camera as in the case above, on concrete and the camera checks out ok at the service depot, there's no guarantee that there isn't hidden damage. Could be a hairline crack in a circuit board. A slightly misaligned shutter or mirror mechanism. Whatever. This might not show up for a couple thousand shots just as your trying to get the first kiss. In fact you might not even know it and shoot the rest of the day with images you can't use or fix because the card reader wasn't writing to the card correctly. The same goes for a lens. There are a number of things that can happen later on with impact damage. One could be electronic failures and another could be lens delamination where 2 lenses are cemented together and the impact started them separating. Suddenly you have a lens that has decentering problems etc.</p>

<p>When they check out a dropped camera at the depot, they go over it carefully but they don't disassemble the entire unit and check each part individually. If they did, then the diagnostic cost would be 4 x the cost of a new camera. A broken solder joint or cracked circuit board might work fine while bench testing and the damage might be microscopic, thus undetectable for a normal repair check. With continued use, the crack might widen and then cause a host of problems.</p>

<p>I worked in the consumer electronics industry for 10 years (as a manufacturers rep) for some major companies like Samsung, Alpine Car stereo and so on. Trust me, the service departments do a thorough job but things like a hairline crack in a circuit board or connection joint will go undetected until it fails. If that caused the card reader/writer to fail and you lost half a wedding, have fun calling that bride. I'll take the gear write off any day.</p>

I appreciate that Nadine but I'm funny about gear. If

It gets damaged like this, I'll never use it for paid work

again. I just don't want to trust a $3000 + wedding shoot

on a suspect piece of kit.

 

I dropped a primary camera 2 years ago (actually had a wedding guest who

tripped and knocked it out of ny hands) and lens and they hit a cement floor.

Service said the camera was fine and the 70-200 needed $500 in repairs.

Once they came back, they were sold on eBay with full disclosure and a $3500 loss.

 

I just don't want to be sued or disappoint a couple because I took what I consider too much of a risk.

<p>John, very good shot, it's always tough to get a creative group shot that doesn't look like a police line-up. Nicely done!</p>

<p>Mark, nicely spotted moment and very good shot.</p>

<p>Tom, well all that was good for you and great lighting. Nice capture.</p>

<p>At this hotel reception I was looking for a different spot and found this bar down in the basement that doesn't get used anymore (you could see the outline of the bar they removed from the carpet). I was lucky enough to find the light switch and the bulbs were not all burned out :-)</p>

<p>This was shot using an off camera strobe (battery) that was CTO gelled snooted and on a narrow honeycomb to focus the light.</p><div></div>

<p>Jeff, your post should be a sticky on this forum (if they offered that feature). So when a new photographer hunting for tips and tricks to get started comes here, they have to read your post before getting inside the forum. It's long but sums up the business situation very nicely.</p>

<p>Things have changed so much since the film era days. Not sure why in the digital age, a new photographer takes so many short cuts us geezers avoided back then. Everyone I knew would apprentice, even after gaining college or university training, with an experienced pro, sit in on consultations, shoot a year or so as a second or assistant and get the hands on experience that helped avoid so many of these pitfalls. In my case, I shot as either second (12) or primary (8), 20 weddings before making a nickel. Just like the engineer or law student paying for several years of education to get started, this was the expected price of entry. I still see no reason that a new photographer should not make an investment like this in the business before advertising their professional services. IMHO it's the reason we see this same thread, month after month being posted. </p>

<p>Oh my, it's been a fun year,<br>

D7000 grip just blew apart. Door won't close, dials not working etc.<br>

Lightstand got over-tightened in a rush and broke the tightening knob and crushed the tube.<br>

Another lightstand broke the top off, caught the strobe about 15Cms from hitting a cement floor.<br>

5-6 cables including an SC29 and SC28.<br>

The worst was dropping a Tamron 28-75mm f2.8 on the pavement after a long day of shooting. It was often my go-to lens. I use a Lowepro F&S lens belt (love it) and forgot to zip one of the pouches closed. Picked the belt up out of the back of the van (in my own driveway!) to put the gear away and hear a clunk hit the ground. The lens appears fine and seems to work as it should but one of the internal lens elements is loose. Anyone want a soft focus lens? </p>

<p>Kevin, Check your inbox here on Photo net for a message.</p>

<p>Kevin, I know one I'll recommend. I'll forward this thread to him and to contact you via the sites email link.</p>

<p>Lindsay, Very sorry about that. Now I know :)</p>

<p>Again, I think you're right. Either be sure the work is of good quality and stand your ground, giving no further consideration (refunds, product, etc) or issue a full refund with a signed release and get it over with. </p>

<p>Lindsay and I don't always agree but in this case, <em>I think his post is exactly on the mark.</em> I noticed the same discrepancies in the follow up posts and would also like to point out that I can easily see a communication breakdown given the mistakes (repeated using the word 'there' for "their" as one example) in the post above where you said you were on a computer (and not the phone). Added to the missed shots could have been that you were unable to explain yourself well or give clear directions during the consultation and wedding day. People here who have a very good understanding of this business, were confused by your posts. </p>

<p>Following the wedding, your discussions with them about missed shots and the possible quality of the work has most likely confirmed with the clients that you did a poor job (regardless whether that is accurate or not), even if for a low fee.</p>

<p>While I understand the situation you are most likely in, a student, limited income and reluctant to refund the fee, you must consider the future costs you may face if you don't and put this behind you. Small claims would force a full refund anyway as well as any court costs. Then the clients have a court judgment against you to tell everyone they know and on any internet vehicle they can find, that they won a case against you for poor work.</p>

<p>There was a similar case not that long ago in England where the pictures were posted everywhere <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2132578/Are-Britains-worst-wedding-pictures-Newlyweds-devastated-photographer-failed-couple-frame-took-blurry-shots.html">(including the Daily Mail</a>) of the poor wedding photography. The names of the photographers (read the article) were posted everywhere. I'm not saying your work was this bad but once it's in the paper and on the internet, it doesn't matter. This ended their photography business.</p>

<p>What you don't realize is, the clients who want the cheapest deals are also the ones most likely to demand the most. They place little value in the photography to begin with. I would be surprised if they just take the 100 and disappear. <strong>Do not under any circumstances</strong>, give them the remaining shots. You will just prove to them that you took 750 bad photos that they will use against you. If the 150 you provided, cover everything you shot and are the best of the day, then that's all you should deliver.</p>

<p>Should be fairly easy to find from any supplier that sells backdrops. I have 6-7 that are 10 x 20' and have used them set up as 20 feet wide many times. Backdrop express (.com) sells many in this size.</p>

<p>Well this is a more complex question than it might appear on a number of levels, gear, expectations, a contract, types of venues etc.<br /> First, I'd like to know if you are doing this for family or someone else. These forums and others are replete with threads starting with "I shot a wedding and now I'm in trouble". Couples will too often, roll the dice on photography because they don't have any understanding of how difficult this is and demanding on both the photographer and gear. So a better understanding of those past weddings and this one would be a good place to start.</p>

<p>If this is family, then fine, we can leave a few issues and just talk gear. If it's people you are less connected with, regardless of the couple weddings you shot a few years ago, then there's more to discuss if you want to dive into that. Primarily, a contract with very clear expectations laid out and if either your costs are being covered or a paid fee.</p>

<p>For now, your gear. Film is great but very expensive relative to digital. Plus it has speed limits as do the older film cameras. Your A100 is almost a 7 year old design and although a decent daylight camera, it will be very hard to use well in a dark church or reception hall. ISO 800 is it's max limit for acceptable image quality (although it tops out at ISO2000, it gets very grainy beyond 800) and I would not want to use it much past ISO 400 most of the time. The 6x7 would be a wonderful camera to shoot outdoor portraits with but not a camera I want to use for faster parts of the day. I can't comment on the Minolta's, as I have no experience with any of them but again, film speed will be a consideration if this is an indoor event.</p>

<p>Flash can help in low light when you are allowed to use it, although you don't mention if you have a compatible unit. Also with your lenses, are they auto focus? At least the most important focal lengths? You may want to consider renting a camera and if needed, a flash and AF lenses that will get you through the day.</p>

<p>If you could clarify a few details, then we can comment further. </p>

<p> </p>

<p>Well lets sum up this to this point regardless of the legal discussions that may or may not be accurate (since none of us are lawyers and are only guessing).</p>

<p>To this point, everyone is in agreement that the fees* should be refunded and a release signed upon returning those fees. So I would suggest that Megan find the correct wording for a release and give the refund quickly to try and avoid further issues.</p>

<p>*Steve thinks half but the rest indicate 100%</p>

<p>Manuel, have you delivered everything you were originally contracted and paid for?</p>