berryl

Marc, I agree with everything you said except the part about your photos not getting any better, That my friend I find hard to believe judging from the quality of your work. And this just goes to prove my point about good photographers who are modest.

Berryl

Cayuga,

I own the vr and have use others, I also find it a little long for inside portraits, the 60 being my personal choice. It is a great lense for macro however. I like to move around alot and the vr funtion work for me. Keep in mind that when you mount it on a tripod you need to shut the vr funtion off. So depending upon your own personal style you will need to decide with details are important to you.

Good luck

Berryl

I personaly am in favor of eliminating anonymous rates but if you think about it Shawn once this is done one could simply click on anyones name and look at their work without any icons involved. And if the Icons are self given it really would not have any merit anyway. Some photographers who are really very good however also very modest could give themselves a lower icon. There are quite a few people who I presume would not want to blow their own horn so to speak. Do you see what I mean. We really would not be any better off. The idea of eliminate anonymous raters though has always held my favor and would go a long way to improve the current system.

Berryl

Shawn, Good thought on learning from unrated or poorly rated photos, but if you want icons next to peoples names designating them as amuture, beginner, or pro, well, Man you are opening up a whole new can of worms here. Who will designate who. And by what criteria. Oh Boy I would not want to be involved with that one.

Berryl

Marc, through the current rating system you may not learn much, and I argee that a critique would be wonderful, but how many of those do you see. And how much weight do you give to them. "I like it" may inspire you and has a place here for we all need incouragement but as to how informitive it is, well, not much. Like I stated before in another thread I am more interested in how many view one of my photos than any rate given. But if a more professional, "And by that I did not mean a professional" were to rate and critique with an informative hand then I would be all ears. Now would it be nessesary to pay these so called more professionals, I do not think so, why, because given the amount of good photographers we have here at PN, "Myself most suredly not included" would it be that hard to put together a team. And I mean a very large team so as not to put to much a burden on any one person. Now lets face it, this is a compatition, and if you want to play that game then lets have someone better qualified to do it. Whould you want your kids piano recital judged by a bunch of say meat cutters or construction workers. I really do not believe so. However along with the competitive side there is a learning side and who better to teach us.

That does not mean we have nothing to learn from amatures, because lets face it, maybe 95% of those who will ever look at your photo will be an amature. For me that is where the amount who view my photo is more important than the rates given. It means my photo was interesting enough for them to look at it. So everything has a place, the question is can they all be conbined to form a system that will at the least be more useful than what we have now.

Berryl

It seems to me that there are quit a few threads going on at the same time

about the rating system. What is it that we want out of our rating and

critique system. Is its purpous to see how far up the ladder our photo can go

or is it so we can recieve feedback and learn from our fellow peers. I thought

it was the later. Now I posted a soultion to this problem in a couple other

threads and recieved no comments. And at the risk of redundency this is what I

suggested. Why can we not have our current system as is and at the same time

have, as Philp suggested, a group of more professional photographers rate

also. The later of which will be the ones selected for the TRP and such. If I

am correct than this may solve the cheating problem sence if you know a more

professional group are going to rate your photo than it may be a little

embarresing to have say a 7/7 from them and a 4/4 from those better able to

rate it. I think that true photograpers, amature or not, would rather have a

learning experience from all this. If this is our objective than then why not

strive to that end. If this sound like a crazy idea, then so be it. Its the

best I can think of.

Yours Truly

Berryl

I will state what I wrote in a simular thread, Lets have two critiques and rate systems, just like the movies do. One will be by assigned professional photographers and the one as what we have now. The Oscars and the Peoples Choice Awards so to speak. This will solve some of the problems by helping us recieve benifical critiques and ratings by those who have nothing to gain other than to help produce better photographers. It may also help stop some of the abuse in the current rating system because who would want a lot of 6's and 7's when they know they may not get that from the more professional raters. It would make them look foolish. Just an idea that might work.

Berryl

Maybe they should, we have experts who rate movies and we have the peoples award. Why not have both on PN also. Is this so farfetched an idea.

Berryl

It seems to me that we are addressing multable issues here. How many nudes there are, the quality of these photos, where does one draw the line and the photo is pornography, and how much was this photo manipulated in photoshop. The photoshop issue is for another forum and quite frankly has been hashed over extensively. The quality issue should not be an issue sense the purpose of PN is to create better photographers. How many nudes there are is difficult but not impossible to control maybe by having a seperate grading critique section, I'll have to think about this one awhile. And the, "where does one draw the line" issue, well this one has been gone over alot also. I think it will have to come down to someone at photoNet being responsable to make that line no matter how abstract and adhere to it. Its not going to be easy, but sooner or later will have to be addressed. That first photo to me is creative and artistic, the one with the boobs is not. Its shows no creativity, no purpose other then to stimulate, and on top of that is not well executed which we should point out to the photographer as this is our purpose. Does it belong here? Well, not in my opinion, but that is that not yet created line to decide.

Berryl

Sorry Ray, Your right I was straying of the path, I will try and watch that in the future. As far as the thread here, as I mentioned in another thread why not make manditory critiques a policy if you are going to rate a photo. Yes, you are going to get the "great shot", "good photo", and "I like it" comments. But a least it's a start. Sometimes people have to learn how to give critiques, I for one am learning. But I think it will help a little.

Berryl

Berryl

Hi Dave, You are right in that Just saying "I like it" is not a critique, but is it helpful, Well, maybe not in a profesional sense however I think it at least builds confidence to a point. And lets face it, we all like to get compliments once in while. Maybe critique is not the best word to use as a forum heading in that it does not in itself leave any room for kudos so to speak. Its like junk food, everything in moderation is not so bad. I do agree with you though that helpful critiques done with compassion is important and the most benifical professionaly. By the way, your biography, I LIKE IT! Im sorry I could not help that. I really do like it though. And your portfolio is nice also, it looks like places I have seen before. I wonder if we live nearby. Anyway I think we both agree that helpful comments could not hurt.

Berryl

Thanks Ben, You may be a beginner however you are quit gifted. I keep oversharping my photos before uploading them. I make the same dam mistake over and over. I am new to all this at PhotoNet and it seems when you resize and post the photo looks bad. I get used to it I guess. Maybe a Help Me post on "I'm not sure which forum" will get me some answers. If you have any helpful hints let me know!

Your Friend

Berryl

Personaly I think that no photos should be rated without a critique. Why? Because it will serve to at least curtail some of the abuse and at the same time be truly helpful to the photographer and the one rating it also. For instance sometimes I will rate a photo and critiqe it. Then when others post there opinions I see things that I missed when I offered my opinion. This helps me as much as the original person who posted the photo. If the rater knows he is going to have to explain his ratings he will be a little more careful in how he does it. As I said in another thread, at this point I am more interested in how many really look at my photo than the ratings recieved because it at least shows me that the photo was interesting enought to look at. This is not perfect but that and real critiqes are the most benifical to me. The whole point of PhotoNet is to become better photographers and yes to build a commrodary between those of us who want to achieve that end. If you want to rate a photo be prepaired to explain your rating. A critique is the best way to do this. And if the photographer who posted the photo want to ask you to explain in futher detail than they can do so. This helps everyone.

Berryl

Hello Ben, Nice to here from you again. You know I accually am more interested in how many people view any one photo of mine than any ratings. To me it tells more than the ratings themself, you know what I mean. Your black and white section is something by the way. That old building reminds me of an old shed I had on my first homes property!

Berryl

I always thought it would be fun to see what would happen if a set of award winning photos from expert photographers were run through the system anonomisly. And Carl you portfolio is wonderful by the way. I really like those AA Extra Large Bunns.

Berryl

Robert, Good point and great photos, This is exactly what I mean. Even if you do not like the photo how can you give them a three for originality. UNBELIEVEABLE!

Berryl

You know there were quite a few times when I was no longer going to post anymore photos. And at some time in the future this may happen. Not because I am pissed off because some person who does not know squat about photograpy or someone who just spent less than two seconds looking at my photo just gave me 3's, no its because time is valuable and I think I would rather rate and critque someones else photos with an honest answer so maybe they could learn something than recieve rates that mean nothing. There are a few who look at ones photo and offer valuable advise and yes even praise. We as human beings require both as it would become bothersome to recieve only negitive critques no matter how informative they are without a few kind words from those I consider freinds with my best intrest at heart. This is why I decided to never rate a photo without a critque.

At first I went through and rated photos like an assembly line worker and I thought is this what PhotoNet is about. No More. If I am going to offer advise on someones photos they are going to know who I am and a chance to ask me why I said what I did. And they will at least know that I spent some time looking at there photo and not just slap a rate on it between shoving food in my mouth and watching my favorite sitcom on television. No I cannot rate as many photos this way, but it sure as hell is going to mean a lot more to the ones I do. And you know what, I am doing this as much for me as them. It makes me feel better about myself. Well, thats my two cents worth, sorry it was so long winded.

Sincerly

Berryl Bader

Wow! You know, I know that I am a little slow at times and at the risk of showing my stupidity I have to say that I had no idea that these were here. Man Photo Net just seems to have more and more. I thought this was a place for a vidio forum of some sort, and since I am a very new member I have a lot to learn. Anyway I started looking at these vidios and I think that they are just Great!. I definitly plan to view them on a regular basis. Hope you are not planing to remove them. They seem to be very informative and also just enjoyable to look at. Thanks for bringing them to my attention.

Sincerly

Berryl Bader

One of my pet ideas is structured online classes

Great Idea, I am all for it. I spend a lot of money on photo equipment. And I mean a lot! I most certainly would spend $200.oo to better learn how to use all this expensive equipment.

Berryl

Hey guys,

Would you buy this lense or the Nikon Telephoto AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8D ED-IF II AF, I am thinking that in poor lighting this would be a good long lense and in good light a teleconverter would be a great add on with it being a f/2.8 verses an f/4. Which one would you buy?

Berryl

Thanks guys, I feel kind of stupid not noticing this myself. I guess I got cought up in the excitment of a possible good buy. They have this lense on ebay for $2000.oo. It looked good anyway. And its gone in about 2 hours. I had a shot the other day of a Doe and two fawns sucking and I ran out of available light, I was using my 80-400 af vr. Thats why this lense looked so good. Thanks for your help!

Berryl

What do you think about this lense, Nikon Nikkor ED 500mm 1:4P Telephoto Lens,

I have done some searchs and came up with very little. Got some info on the

4.0 lense but not the 1.4. Does anyone know anything about this lense and its

approximate value. I would appreciate any info you have.

Thanks,

Berryl

Scott,

I am still waiting for my 18-200 and I have read so many conflicting reviews I am just going to see for myself how I like the lense. I did borrow a friends for a couple of hours and in the short time I used it it seemed to be a pretty good all around lense. I did not notice any creep. I am thinking that this lense will be a good carry around lense but for any special photos I plan to use lenses for the specific use needed. As for as grey market, I have bought some but only from reputable dealers. Be careful here or you could end up with a broken lense and no one to go back to. You most likely will end up with a second party guarente. Most of the time it is best to buy USA lenses as these are backed by Nikon. Never bought any photo equipment on Ebay, so can't help you there. Hope this helped.

Berryl

Mr. Jackson, I think those are cable remotes, I have a cable remote, and the self timer also works good when you want to fire the camera without touching it. If you want to aleave all possiblily of movement you want to use a tripod {a given}, lock up the mirror, and use a remote trigger, via wired, wireless, or the selftimer. A wireless remote would be the most handy.

Berryl