mary fran

As Ben said, the Tominon is a Tessar-type four element, which commands a premium over a three-element lens. The Tominon seems to be a very respectable performer, with sharpness that exceeds the ability of Polaroid film to record. The B&W film (especially the Fuji 100) offers a much sharper image than the color stuff, which always seems to have terrible color rendition anyway. In addition, the Seiko SLV on the 180 is a leaf shutter (and leaf aperture), much more sophisticated (and expensive) than the simple guillotine shutter found on most other Polaroid models. The Tessar lens and Seiko shutter make the 180 a classic folding camera, designed and produced at the end of the golden age of medium-format folders. And $500 for a 180 seems a bit over the market. I bought mine on the"bay" for $200, and I've seen them listed routinely for $200-$300. I'd keep shopping.

Thanks to all...John gets the prize for the right answer. I had recently applied new seals for the film door, but had the body cap in place when I did so. Upon checking out the mirror this AM, I found an errant piece of foam seal stuck to the back side of the mirror. Once I removed it, focus was back in sync. Despite reasonable precautions, Murphy always finds a way (which is what makes him Murphy, I suppose). Someone once told me that in problem solving, always look for the simplest explanation first...that was certainly the case here! Thanks again.

My R5 has developed a sudden and inexplicable focusing problem. When I focus an

object in the view finder that is, say, 20 feet away, the distance scale on the

lens will read something very different, like 5 feet. Changing the lens makes

no difference. It seems like a prism misalignment to me, but the camera has

not been dropped or jolted (that I'm aware of) and has very "low mileage".

Before I sigh deeply and send it off for an expensive look-see, has anyone

experienced anything like this??

You did the right thing Amanda. Several months ago I stumbled on one of my own shots on another site. It was one that I posted over the summer on PN,had made first or second page of TRP's in the Avian category. Looking through the persons other Avian photo's I recognized no less than a dozen stolen from PN's TRP's. A friend of mine on PN took the time to notify the photographers who filed infringement charges and the person was taken off the site. The other photographers were very appreciative. I never worried about anything I did being stolen, I'm too new to photography. Yet, when I saw this person post it as their own I was livid. Suppose they sold it to someone with exclusive rights?....not sure what would happen but could be a mess down the road sorting it out and they'd surely be gone with the money in the mean time. Imagine having to spend your time proving the shot was yours in the first place. I don't know all the ins and outs, but the sooner someone knows their work has been stolen I'd say the better. And based on the other photographers reactions, you'd be thanked three times over.

Shay, you're absolutely correct that it is misleading, but the bulk of their money comes from advertisers so "members" are secondary. A lot of folks simply leave, but there are always new folks to entice.

Takes a few months to figure out the rating system is meaningless. It's been complained about for years, last fix was to institute the anonymous ratings which just gave people the opportunity to be real idiots. Generally, the site has a negative and cynical tone, just look at the replies you got- including those from admin. Good news is there are a good number of sites that are well run with positive and helpful advice on your photography, and more of the pros are on those sites. There are also some good photographers here, but it can be very taxing to sort through the "feedback" and try to make sense of it given the current "system".

Josh, getting back to the original thread, bravo, I think that will be a change for the better.

Good point, I suspect it's possible mastering good portraits is a step many of the good photographers took before moving on. Facial expressions are quite complex, and subtle changes in angle, lighting etc really can change the whole impression one gets. I think amatuers who attempt to do nudes need to take extra care in what they are presenting publicly, and rounding up some opinions from some of the better photographers in that category behind the scenes would be a wise step. There are sites out there where anything goes, but if you look at the categories here that is only one of a very many so the community at large is not necessarily eager to see poorly done ones, obviously due to a more sensitive subject matter. And I must say they have been dominating the TRP's for a good while now, seems rare any other categories are represented in the first few pages. I'm afraid I find that a bit creepy for lack of a better word. I also will say as a female I generally don't care to even address it publicly, and I suspect there are a good many others who feel the same way. Certainly not something I want to debate with a male who is a stranger. It used to be rare to see poorly done ones here--at least in terms of tastefulness, now it's not that uncommon.

A lot has changed Biliana, and a lot of folks have left and moved to other sites, myself included. The nude representation in the TRP's is definitely a sign that the membership has changed too. I'm embarassed to have friends visit, as there are a lot of nude photographers who simply don't understand what is tasteful and what is not. There are several wonderful photographers in that category here who understand light, shape and form and present images that one would see displayed in a public art gallery, many of the others would be sent on their way at the front door, and likely would be directed to sell their wares at the nearest smut magazine. I wonder at what point the beloved advertisers who pay the bills will notice the change in the mix and also realize if folks are offeded by the nudes the clicks are going way down.

Scot -- I had an experience last fall with Steve Serota that was an absolute horror show. I sent him my Agfa Super Solinette to CLA and two Voigtlander Bessamatics to repair, prepaid to the tune of $360. It only took two months to get the Agfa back, but midway through my first roll of film, the shutter went into slow motion. Despite paying Steve $105 for a CLA, it was immediately obvious that all he'd done was the old trick of dripping a little lighter fluid into the shutter mechanism instead of a proper disassembly. The Bessamatics were even better. I started emailing Steve after two months of waiting, and he failed to answer any of them. after three months, I finally hunted down his home address and phone number through PeopleSearch. I got him on the phone and got a real song and dance about why my cameras weren't done. I called him three more times over the next three weeks before my Bessamatics were finally returned after four months. I don't think this guy is necessarily dishonest, just a major scatterbrain with a strange notion about keeping commitments. Never again...

 

Brad Loggans

Brian, they of course are helpful, but how to do you explain all the postings on a daily basis of photo's to the critique forum if people aren't here for critiques and feedback?--there are also some excellent books written on these subjects, far more detailed than what can be put in a forum. I can get a 300 page book for $25.00 on any topic in Photography. You're point is taken that some folks are here for other reasons, articles,referrals on good products, I'm referring to the folks who actually want first hand feedback on their work, and given the number of photo's submitted I'd say that constitutes a high number of members.

Dave, I quit posting months ago. There are far too many folks who can't look at a shot, for example of a bird, and assess it "as a photograph" of a bird. If you read some of the opinions expressed in these forum posts some folks can't rate a photo high unless it's in a category they favor or it blows them away--which rarely happens. So in the interim there's little feedback but lot's of anonymous 3's 4's which without suggestions are a waste of time. There absolutely are people who have no use for bird shots and wouldn't give one even a 5 no matter how solid it was. A solid one is a 3, and a snapshot poorly composed gets a 3 also. All the same to them simply because it's boring in their opinion. As soon as they see a bird they hit the 3 button. Real critiques have gone by the way side in favor of the lazy clicker who likes to dish out ratings without comments. Many people sign up here to learn and improve their photography but the site has collected too many members who just enjoy dishing out ratings and aren't here to "participate". Heaven forbid they should actually participate and offer suggestions.

 

Yes, there are snapshots, a few suggestions to someone starting out can be a big help, but once again heaven forbid someone actually take a moment to do the right thing and help someone. Then of course you need to be careful as some folks can't communicate well enough to avoid being offensive. Up until a few months ago I was very fortunate

having met some good photographers who helped me out with composition,

post processing etc. and I've improved greatly from when I started out with my "snapshots" and I thank those folks for their honest feedback and the time they took to help me. That was what I thought I had signed up to when I joined, not a rating frenzy that frequently spans 3-6 and is of no value without feedback. And of course someone is going to say don't worry about ratings, or your photo's aren't all 6's and they are missing the point. The site was designed around the rating system as your primary mechanism for feedback--critiques are few and far between--so if the rating system is meaningless what's the point of being here?

Bear in mind that 7's are limited, you can only give out a limited number in a day and if you give a 7 to a photographer they can not return it for two weeks. This means it will never impact the default used for the TRP's even if someone goes through the trouble of returning two weeks later. The high end is well controlled, the low end has no limits. Don't hold your breath for a change, it's been made clear it's not a priority.

The ads are too large, wouldn't that space better be used for member's photo's? Understand the need to sell advertising space but the size of the ads is over the top and annoying.

Gene, Julian -- Who did your Kiev repairs, and would you recommend them?? Thanks.

 

Brad Loggans

Manfred -- You must have variant model of the Ultron...I have two Ultrons, both with this thread feature, also a Septon and two Noktons with same. Go figure...

 

Brad Loggans

The outer set of knurled rings on your Ultron is actually a set of threads, and will accept a 49mm threaded metal Voigtlander hood made specifically for the Prominent. Part number is something like 3xx/49. You can probably find one on the 'Bay if you're persistent...they come up for sale now and then. They're a very nice and well made accessory, and really set off the already classy looking Prominent (JMHO).

 

Brad Loggans

I'm not seeing where you're contributing to this thread, you both seem way off track presuming it's simply about 3/3 ratings and haven't addressed any specifics. If you're happy with the rating system as is simply say so and move on. You've cast your vote and that's sufficient. Certainly appears you are more interested in being antagonistic and bordering on personally attacking people than being participative or productive here. Some folks like the concept of the ratings simply for feedback, they just want to better be able to interpret that feedback and feel some changes need to be made in order to do that. It's not whining if you're constuctively trying to help the site, it is if you're just complainig about the thread and attacking the folks who are participating constructively.

It's nice to see there are people who care enough about the site to want to invest their time and energy into it, rather than just use it.

Tim, several of the people above have had photo's in the TRP's, some regularly. Careful with assumptions and dismissing people without being thorough. Many of the complaints are from the better photographers, read the comments on photo's as well as forum threads that reference the rating system, consistently comes up as a concern. I personally took the time recently to rate at least two of your photo's and may have commented also, I believe I gave you some 7's and you've just told me I wasted my time as you don't pay any attention. This thread isn't addressing complaints about 3/3er's, it's much much broader than that.

Brian, the site offers the option to not pay and participate, so if people choose that at first it's the result of a site business decision. Surely many of those folks become paying members eventually and the site counts on that. In some countries the fee is very expensive if they have to pay in US Dollars, and we have some terribly talented folks participating from some of the poorer countries. Darius is offering some wonderfully constructive criticism for a change with some well thought out suggestions. Everytime this subject comes up it becomes a debate and no wonder the administrators are reluctant to go there--

perhaps if for once they saw a consensus from enough members they'd feel they could make some improvements with out having a major battle on their hands. I feel for them AND the members who are frustrated. It frequently takes compromise to make progress.

Applause Darius, you have addressed many of the issues and I am of the same opinion on many of the solutions. First and foremost concern being who is doing the rating--no portfolio is very suspicious and certainly lends itself to abuse accounts and there are way too many of these. Also since there are no joining requirements "anyone" can sign up. Many of these folks may not know the first thing about photography and rate just for fun. That's scary and further invalidates the rating system.

One additional area to address, more detail in the ratings tutorial.

We're all at different levels, I'm a beginner trying to get the basics down so I think the technical execution rate would be a perfect place to recognize that and provide valuable feedback.

I also recently suggested/requested a third posting submittal

category, I would like to get feedback from some pro's, and would gladly pay an extra fee for that option. I suggested a panel do the critiques, add a third membership category with an extra fee for folks who'd like to do that, and limit the number of submittals to keep it manageable for the site. For those of us who want to learn and not get caught up in the ratings antics it would be invaluable. As it stands, you really have no choice but to try to

"guesstimate" what the ratings mean. All the members in the world won't make the system credible if there are no standards, and many many members are disturbed and upset by all of it. I feel sorry for new members as they take it all to heart, and only if they stick it out do they come to understand the "culture" that has developed here.

Thanks Jin, all is ok.

I haven't been able to upload photo's to my portfolio this am--I receive the

following error message--the requeted URL can not be accessed due to a system

error on this server" I haven't seen any other remarks about it so am

wondering if the problem is on my end or if the PN server is having problems?

Thanks

Nice, but I can get pictures almost this bad with my Holga if I work at it. :-)

 

Brad Loggans

Raid -- One of my Prominents has a shutter that's a little sluggish below 1/50. Actually, I have four of them, need to sell a couple. Bought two of them on "a major auction site" because they came with Nokton lenses...got 'em each for a little over half what the Nokton alone usually goes for. One lens turned out to have cleaning marks, but the other was pristine. I love the Prominent because it's a solidly built, reliable piece of German engineering, a nice little machine. Granted, not ergonomic as someone here said, but having to take your time to take a picture ain't all bad...makes you think about what you're doing.

 

Brad Loggans

I've used Vermont Camera Works to CLA 4 old 35mm cameras, and they so far have been competent, responsive / helpful, and reasonably priced. I'm about to send them my Prominent for CLA. You can Google their website.

 

Whatever you do, avoid Camera Care / Steve Serota like the plague! I sent him 2 Bessamatics last September for CLA, and I got them back almost 4 months later only after hounding him with emails and finally with nightly calls to his home (had to hunt him down through PeopleSearch). The guy is very engaging, full of excuses, apparently extremely disorganized, and prone to promise way more than he can deliver. Only one of the cameras was fully repaired when I received them, but I was just thankful to get them back. Live and learn...

 

Brad Loggans