milton_barrocas

Not only is the pin-out different but the TTL signal is the reverse

polarity. I'm currently using my SB-26 on my P67II with TTL but I had

to build an adapter to be able to mount the flash on the grip. The

adapter is real simple but if you are not the handyman then its not

worth the trouble. I faced a similar problem myself, already owning

an SB-26 which is a superior flash, why should I spend more money to

get another inferior Pentax flash?

It will not work. If I understand correctly you are wondering if the

P67 will work with high speed sync by using the normal sync signal.

The P67 generates a sync signal for any shutter speed (at least the

P67II does) but this is of no use for high speed sync (or as its

otherwise known focal plane high speed sync). The problem is that the

camera generates the normal sync signal only after the first curtain

reaches the end of travel (i.e. shutter fully open). If the shutter

speed is higher than 1/30 then by the time the first curtain stops

traveling the second curtain is already on it way (somewhere in the

frame depending on shutter speed) otherwise known as slit exposure.

This will result in a partial flash exposure (flash banding). What is

required is for a signal that occurs even before the first curtain has

left. If after this signal there is a constant flash source for longer

than 1/30 of a second then the exposure will be even at any shutter

speed. The P67 happens to have such a signal, the FP sync. Its a shame

Pentax left this feature out in the P67II. Now there is no way of

using high speed sync without modifying the camera. I've heard

comments stating that the FP sync was removed because its outdated

since its useful only with flash bulbs. Wrong! Its been prety much

usless only because pentax has not designed a high speed sync flash to

make use of it. But if you know a little about flash systems you can

adapt other high speed sync flashes to the camera. Also some high

power studio strobes have the ability to generate long flash pulses in

the order of 1/40 which could give the ability for the P67 to sync at

all shutter speed (there is also a way of modifying these strobes to

lengthen the pulse lentth). I've been tempted many times to purchase a

P67 in addition to my P67II for this reason alone. Granted the FP sync

has limited usefulness and requires making your own flash adapter not

to mention the flash exposure compensation hassles. Still there will

come a time in every camera's life when this feature is indispensable.

One reason for the banding may be that the shutter travel speed varies

as its traveling across the frame. This will likely result in

consistent banding in consistent locations in every frame. If however

the banding that you see is well defined but the location is

inconsistent from frame to frame then the problem could be lighting.

This effect is similar to using flash with a shutter speed faster than

the max sync speed. The P67's shutter allows for flash sync up to

1/30. Faster shutter speeds means a slit exposure so any varying light

sources will create exposure "bands". When you tested did you use

fluorescent lighting? Remember fluorescent lighting flickers heavily

at 60 Hz (most incandescent lights will also result in varying light

levels to a lesser degree). All shutter speeds above 1/30 will show

banding to some degree. Since the P67 has low sync speed it becomes

prone to this effect quicker than the 35mm cameras with very high sync

speed or leaf shutter lenses. Try the same test using daylight, if the

problem is still present then its likely a shutter travel problem.

I've used the P67II for a long time and never confronted this problem

so do not see it as a limitation.

For me using the leaf shutter handheld without mirror lockup has never

provided any measurable improvement over using the camera's shutter

without mirror lockup. Again I believe that hand steadiness and mirror

vibration are the limiting factors when shooting handheld (I have a

hard enough time preventing the camera from turning when the mirror

flips up let alone vibration). I have never seen the 'left side'

softness gremlin with any of my lenses (I shoot about 500 rolls a year

and have a very fine enlarging lens and regularly enlarge to 20X24). I

also regularly attempt to use mirror lock when shooting handheld

(that's another peeve with the P67II, the MUP switch could not

possibly be any harder to activate handheld, why couldn't pentax just

add a push button next to the shutter release?).

For the love of me I cant disagree with you more regarding getting

more vibration from the shutter than the mirror. What vintage of

camera do you have? Perhaps I should mention that I own a P67II. But

results are results, for me the 90LS has consistently delivered the

sharpest pictures ever since I started using the 'S' mode and I would

not trade this lens for any other Pentax lens (well maybe the 800ED).

A lot of times I use the lens for landscapes at 1/30 sacrificing the

extra angle of view and DOF that I would get from my 55mm. The same

cannot be said about the 160LS. I've owned this lens for about 2 years

and regularly shoot with it but have never noticed any difference in

sharpness when using the leaf shutter whether on tripod or handheld.

Again I believe the leaf shutter produces less vibration than the

camera's shutter but since I cant lock the mirror when using the leaf

shutter I wind up shooting with the camera's shutter and ML whenever

possible. So in my opinion the only advantage of the leaf shutter is

the high flash sync which still makes this lens more valuable than the

160F2.8.

The P67II is handholdable alright, for about 2 minutes!. Its true in terms of form and fit the P67II is exactly like a typical modern 35mm SLR, but the weight! Your street and people photography desires scream Mamiya 7. Its true the mamiya 7 is no perfect camera but for those purposes alone it beats the P67. Here's an idea, before you dish out $4k for a mamiya 7 and lens, rent a P67II and try it, its that simple.

Its certainly possible but depends on focal length and infinity focus

requirements. Plus you need a mount converter of some sort. Is it

really worth it? How many lenses do you have? I have described the

restrictions for focal length elsewhere but in case you didn't see it

here goes. I'm assuming you require infinity focus as any LF lens with

helicals is bound to be a wide angle used for landscapes. The minimum

focal length of the lens you wish to convert is restricted by the

distance between the film plane and whatever mount the lens has. In

order to achieve infinity focus this distance must at least equal the

focal length of the lens. Now consider that for the P67 the film to

lens mount distance is already 89mm or so. So this alone would

restrict the min focal length to 89mm. However you still need some

type of lens mount adapter which adds to this distance. Also depending

on lens design the "built in helicals" may be at the back of the lens

and also contribute to this distance. So probably only lenses >120mm

could be converted. On the other end the amount of helical extension

you get will affect magnification. For 1:1 magnification you need the

lens to be twice the focal length from the film plane. The helicals

will give nowhere near this kind of extension but at least you can use

extension tubes. Remember how you need wide angle bellows for wide

angle lenses in LF, and the wide angle restriction is how much you can

squeeze the bellows? Well think of the P67 body plus mount adapter as

a fixed bellows which cannot be squeezed and hence restrict wide

angles. Heck just buy an LF camera.

"One mode for flash and the other for special applications"

 

<p>

 

This is not totally correct. Both modes have the same flash

capabilities. The real difference is that the 90LS allows the leaf

shutter to be tripped any time after tripping the camera's shutter or

locking the mirror. This means that camera shutter vibration and

mirror up vibration can be totally eliminated with the lens in the 'S'

mode. It makes sense to use this mode in almost all tripod restricted

shooting. If you dont believe me check the lens manual. Pentax flat

out claims that "vibration reduction" is one of the advantages for

this lens.

As far as slow shutter speed, it is indeed possible to do what you say

but this will not help you in terms of vibration. Remember that the

leaf shutter fires almost immediately after the auto-aperture lever is

activated (on the P67 this happens as soon as the mirror flips up and

this is the reason the lens does not support mirror lock when using

the leaf shutter). On the 160 LS as soon as you bring the mirror up

the leaf shutter fires even if the camera shutter is not tripped yet

(on the P67 auto-aperture lever will activate when either the camera's

shutter is tripped or the mirror is locked). What this really means is

that mirror lock is not possible at all with this lens (in leaf

shutter mode) and hence you get the full mirror vibration effects when

the leaf shutter is tripped (so the camera's shutter vibration really

becomes irrelevant since the mirror vibration, as I'm sure we all

agree, dominates). Setting a slow shutter speed on the camera does

nothing to improve mirror vibration. Its a shame Pentax decided to

neglect the functionality of the 90LS (I use the 90LS in the S setting

probably 85% of the time, and this is probably why I think the images

from this lens are so spectacular and make this lens very valuable). I

believe they reasoned (for cost savings) that users of the 160 LS use

the lens for handheld portraiture using high shutter speed and hence

mirror lock is not practical and vibrations are not as much an issue

due to the high shutter speeds and flash freeze. I also beleive they

reasoned wrong since I only use my 160LS that way maybe 5% of the time

so I think the lack of the independent leaf shutter trip severely

limits the usefulness of the leaf shutter in this lens. Remember there

was a reason Pentax (and other manufacturers) went to the trouble of

adding an extra switch and cable release to their leaf shutter lenses.

Once you start using these lenses you soon realize its importance. And

how much could a simple switch and cable release socket add to the

price of the lens? On the 90LS, to me, they are worth 10X their weight

in gold, no...no, make that platinum. Coming to think of it Pentax

should take the old 90LS tooling modify it to increase the focal

length to 100mm and sell this lens as the "normal" lens and scrap the

105mm. This would ensure that every single P67 buyer would buy the

"normal" lens and put it to maximum use and further increase the

bang-for-the-buck the P67 system delivers.

Congratulations you've just made your first mistake by buying the 105.

If you have the dough then the 55-100 is a must. If you do macro then

you must purchase the 100mm, this is an awesome lens, sharper than any

other lens. You can never have too many LS lenses so keep an eye for a

used 90LS (this lens is superb). Now you see why I say you made a

mistake with the 105, too much focal length duplication. If you buy

any of the above three suggestions then your 105 becomes redundant,

the other lenses can be justified because they are specialties i.e.

wide angle zoom, macro, LS, but the 105 is just plain ordinary. My

first recommendation for a first lens purchase for the P67 is always a

used 90LS and never the 105. Just make sure the 90LS is in top shape,

pay a little extra (a used one in mint condition will sell for greater

than new price). Also remember that if there is any possibility of

buying the 55-100 zoom in the future then dont waste money on the

55,75,90 (unless its a 90LS). I have personally shot with both the 55

and a borrowed 55-100 and see no reason to own the 55mm if I had the

later lens. As you might be able to guess here is my lens selection if

I had to do it all over again (for <200mm).

 

<p>

 

1) 90LS

2) 55-100

3) 100 macro

4) 160LS

Before you buy beware that the 160LS does not support independent leaf

shutter like the 90LS. What this means is that not only will you still

be using the camera shutter when using the leaf shutter but you will

not be able to use mirror lockup when using the leaf shutter. Buy this

lens only if you need the high flash sync. It will do nothing to

improve shutter/mirror vibration. For that you need the 90LS.

Otherwise it is a very fine lens. By the way the 160LS goes down to

1/60 not 1/30 like the 90LS.

Depends on focal length. Remember flange to film distance on P67 is about 89mm and the helicoid min extension is 31mm if I remember correctly. Add to that 5mm for a mount adapter and it totals about 125mm. So it would not work (with infinity focus) for any lens shorter that 125mm. It would also not give you the focusing range one is accustomed to in LF, remember that the helicoid tube only extends about an inch, so for further closeups extension rings would have to be used and still would only give you mediocre magnification. I would not go out of my way to try this unless I already owned light LF lenses in the 150-210mm range and could do without the automation. The helicoid tube is a fine accessory (for the price). It is very well built and very smooth. I myself used it to convert a mamiya 500f8 to the P67. My major grief is that the helicoid focusing grip is too close to the camera body and can make focusing inconvenient with heavy lenses.

Before you proceed try another test to ensure both your flash and PC

cord is OK. Turn on your flash and connect the PC cord to it. At the

other end of the PC cord short the center pin to the outer metal

sleeve using maybe a paper clip. Your flash should fire. If it does

then its the lens. I too have though of opening my 90LS to inspect the

shutter and remove dust but taking apart lenses scares the hell out of

me. Good luck...let us known how it turned out.

It is very likely a problem with the connection. Either the PC socket

on the lens has an enlarged hole due to usage or the PC cable pin is

too thin. It is likely to be the enlarged hole but there's a

possibility its the PC cord, try a different one. I have a brand new

PC cord that does not work with the P67II's PC connector because the

pin is too thin. As already suggested try bending the pin slightly.

Also I read somewhere on the Pentax website that the only thing that

is not serviceable on the 90LS is the shutter but everything else is

still serviceable.

You say very dark frames. If you are using negative film it means overexposure. I have occasionally come across a similar problem in the past and although its probably not the same problem you are seeing I'll describe it anyways...just in case. After owning a P67II (with AE prism) for a year I would rarely get a severely overexposed frame. I ignored this problem because it was so infrequent. Then one day I was shooting a waterfall with lots of mist. In order to avoid getting mist on the lens I would compose quickly with my hand sort of shielding the lens, take a reading, and quickly put the cap back on. Then after mist died down a bit I used MUP, removed the cap, fired the shutter, and quickly put the cap back on again. Problem? When you use MUP the AE prism takes a light reading because after the mirror flips up a light reading is no longer possible. So if your lens cap is on when you use MUP the reading will be incorrect and will of course result is severe overexposure. When using MUP the exposure is taken before MUP not when you release the shutter (seems pretty obvious once you think about it). So you either have to remove the lens cap before MUP or in the P67II case use the AE lock button. It is quite possible that your subject lighting will change between the time you trigger MUP and when you release the shutter depending on how much action there is in the scene. Something to watch out for since MUP is such a big part of photographing with the P67.

If you are in the Yosemite area Mount Hoffmann is a must. It is a

short 1.2 miles hike from SR120 to Lake May. This lakes sits at about

9000 feet. You then need to climb another 2000 feet to the top of

Mount Hoffman. There is an undocumented trail that leads you from the

lake to the top but I would not suggest it because it is long, dusty,

and steep in places (I used it on my way down). Instead climb the

rocks straight up it will be faster. I did it with my P67, 4 lenses in

backpack, tripod, lunch and half gallon of water (it was challenging

but not the hardest climb I've done). When you get to the top you will

be rewarded by the most magnificent view of the lake rock formations

and the entire park including the valley! As if that weren't enough on

the opposite side you will get five more small lakes. These are

beautiful turquoise lakes. Photographing from this altitude is like

shooting fish in a barrel. The air is perfectly clear, the sky is such

deep blue that will amaze you everytime you look at it (the only

challenge may be the wind). I got lots of incredible shots. The one

that got away was a view of an eagle from the top. He was rising on a

thermal over a small beautiful lake (he was kinda surprised when he

got to the top and spotted me). How did I miss this shot? Reloading

film! Anyway I've always been interested in high altitude photography

at Yosemite but was surprised with Mount Hoffmann because it is so

accessible and definitely my favorite place, what can I say...you have

to see it.

First of all how do you know the reading is off? If you are using an

external meter are you compensating for bellows? You say the reading

is not constant which is consistent with varying bellows draw. The TTL

reading should be accurate. The way the meter works is: in AUTO mode

the lens is always at max aperture so the meter needs to use the

aperture setting that you dial on the aperture ring to calculate

exposure because the aperture will be changed to the "taking" aperture

when the picture is taken (this is done so that the lens is always

wide open to aid focusing and only closes down when the picture is

taken). So in AUTO mode the meter needs to know aperture setting. In

MANUAL mode the meter does not need aperture info because it just

measures the current light level (in MANUAL mode the "viewing"

aperture is the same as the "taking aperture". Indeed your setup is

like MANUAL mode and is the same situation as when using extension

tubes. The TTL meter still works when using extension tubes even

though there is no aperture coupling provided you set the lens to MAN

when you take the TTL reading. If you really want to make sure here is

what you need to do: your bellows thing can be used like a regular

pentax lens that is set to MAN mode. When you put the lens in MAN mode

the TTL meter ignores aperture coupling and just uses the light

reading it gets because it assumes that the current "viewing" aperture

is the "taking" aperture which is true for the enlarger lens (i'm

assuming your enlarger lens sets actual aperture as it is dialed like

most other enlarger lenses). So how do you tell the camera the lens

you are using is in MAN mode? If you take a pentax lens looking at the

mount and press the MAN lever you will see a little pin on the lens

mount moving (this is what tells the camera that the lens is in MAN

mode. What you need to do is to modify your mount to simulate this

operation, i'll leave the details to you...much luck

Great news. I got perfect TTL flash exposures. Even with the leaf

shutter in special mode to my surprise. It's a miracle the special

shutter mode even works (I only tried it with a coupe of seconds

delay). Actually to use the special mode you have to pull the TIME

switch and when you fire the camera's shutter the camera actually

turns off the flash indicator (indicating flash is no longer being

used??) but the TTL quench is still there after the leaf shutter fires

the flash.

Bill if you are interested in adding this functionality to your setup

let me know and I can suggest something or I can even build you

something at cost. I guess the first thing one has to decide is what

kind of flash and where the flash will be. For me I use an SB25 flash

on occasions when I must travel light or shoot fast. To mount the

flash I use the flash handle with the adapter. I'm afraid that this is

the best way to mount a flash (I got tired of messing around with

flash brackets and such) also I suspect the AE prism locking mechanism

is not strong enough to support any substantial flash. For high power

strobes I use a radio setup with a transmitter that again mounts on

the flash handle (I've been thinking of building a transmitter small

enough to fit and be supported by the 5-pin connector) The other

option which I don't use is the flash cable to use the flash off

camera. The last option is probably the easiest but of limited use.

I was talking about a long shutter delay, remember that with the

90F2.8LS the leaf shutter can be fired independently of the camera so

the leaf shutter delay can be much longer than normal depending on

when you decide to trip it. Funny you replied now because I'm going to

shoot some slides up at yosemite this weekend and will report my

findings next week with some more details, again I'm quite sure it

will give me good exposures but we'll soon see...

(for this weekend since I'm traveling light I will be using a nikon

SB25. I made a shoe adapter machined out of ABS plastic (about 1 cubic

inch) that adapts the pentax shoe to a nikon. This adapter has a tiny

switch that allows me to turn off the sync signal from the camera. The

SB25 lets me fire the flash through the PC sync connector in TTL mode.

So I connect the adapter to the P67II's flash handle then I mount the

flash to the adapter. Then I connect a PC sync cord from the LS sync

directly to the SB25 flash's PC sync. I flick the sync switch on the

adapter to OFF and away we go... my setup is more complex because I'm

not only adding LS TTL functionality but also using a nikon flash,

there's no way I'm going to buy a wimpy AF330FTZ flash when I already

own a beautiful and expensive SB25, it just isn't right)

Don't worry about mirror induced vibration. If you will shoot handheld

then the main source of vibration will be your hands. Also if you try

a P67 to see how the mirror behaves remember that most of the "slap"

that many people object to occurs when the mirror drops not when it

flips up (try it using mirror lock). When the mirror drops the

exposure is over and this "slap" has no affect other than to scare

your subject. The camera probably has some dampening when it flips up

but not down. I shoot handheld all the time and am very pleased with

exposures all the way down to 1/30th of a second (I have a very steady

hand and have always thought that the limit to sharpness when shooting

handheld is hand steadiness). Also I think the bigger limitation is

the weight of the beast. Even if you have a death grip you will not be

able to hold the camera single handed continuously for more than 15

minutes (forget the P67 and buy the P67II, its much more

handholdable). You will hear many people claiming that the P67 is not

suitable for handheld but most people just have too high expectations.

Remember that 6x7 SLR cameras are big, the shutter and mirror are 4x

the area of 35mm so there will definitely be more vibrations

regardless of what camera you use. I find that a good compromise is to

use faster film. You will still see picture improvements over 35mm.

The other alternative is a rangefinder or an old TLR but I suspect

that you crave the SLR flexibility otherwise you wouldn't even

consider a P67 for handheld shooting (nobody does just street

shooting). If you have reasonable expectations then the P67 is fine.

I too have wondered about this. If one assumes that the vibrations

start immediately after the shutter opens and dies down with time then

the longer the exposure the more "recording" occurs when the vibration

dies down and hence a sharper picture for a longer exposure. Here is

my reasoning for the contradiction (pure speculation). When it comes

to shutter vibration most of the vibration occurs when the shutter is

stopped (as opposed to when it is released and when it is traveling).

When the shutter is stopped, the energy must be dissipated by a

dampening system or this energy will be transmitted onto the camera

body where it may cause vibration (when the shutter is released the

only vibration would come from the release mechanism and this would be

insignificant relative to stopping the shutter). So if we assume that

the bulk of the vibration occurs when the shutter is stopped then at

high shutter speeds with slit exposure only the last slit will be

affected by this vibration and hence most of the image will be

sharper. During exposures of 1/30 or longer there is no slit exposure

and hence the whole picture "receives" the "shutter stopping"

vibration effect.

OK I'm using a 500f8 lens on my P67II and having problems focusing

using the standard microprism screen (BA61) . I see a lot of focus

screen grain and the microprism is very dark and not usable (kinda of

what it looks like when using an f2.8 lens). I realize that pentax

makes focus screens dedicated to telephoto lenses. They warn of

exposure errors when using regular focus screens with telephotos (I

wonder if these screens also help focusing or just correct exposure

errors). My question is assuming I buy one (and I most likely will)

should I opt for the microprism (BA81) or the split field (BB81)? I

suspect the microprism will be harder to focus at f8 based on what I

observed but I prefer this type. Anyone have any experience with these

screens with telephoto lens?

Great minds think alike. I have come across this idea myself some time

ago and will give it a try soon. The concept is simple enough just

have the leaf shutter provide the sync and the camera provide the

quench.This is simple to try by splicing a couple of sync cords there

are many ways to identify which signals are which in the sync cords

(my setup is a custom radio remote so I already figured out all the

signals). I have no doubt that this will work fine in the usual mode

of leaf shutter operation with maybe a slight hit in accuracy (its not

likely that the P67II flash meter is that accurate anyway). In the

special mode of leaf shutter operation this might not work because the

metering systems usually integrate the signal coming from the metering

cell. This means that background noise accumulates with time so if the

meter is just sitting there waiting for you to release the leaf

shutter eventually the background noise will build up and cause the

quench signal to trip. FYI here's the P67II hot shoe pinout and some

signal info tidbits. It's too bad you don't like the handle, I rather

like it.

 

<p>

 

o <--data link

O <-- trigger

o o <-- ready

^

|--------------quench

 

<p>

 

trigger - active low

quench - active high

ready - active high

 

<p>

 

Here is what typical triger,quech waveforms look like

 

<p>

 

trigger ------- ----------------

|_____________|

 

<p>

 

quench ------- -------------------------

|_______|

 

<p>

 

Interestingly the quench signal is the reverse polarity from many

other flash systems such as Nikon. A simple inverter can be built to

adapt a Nikon TTL flash to a Pentax camera. I have more info if anyone

is interested. It is very nice to know all the details of the flash

system. It has allowed me to build many TTL radio remotes very

inexpensively and to have just one type of flash for several camera

systems by buildind adapters. I've been wanting to add the leasf

shutter functinality for a while and always been quite certain it

would work.

I wasn't trying to endorse B&H. I simply meant that if you find any

price in NY lower than B&H you will likely get the run around, so the

B&H price is a good indicator. I personally have had a couple of not

so good experiences with B&H like film tied with rubber bands instead

of a film box but overall no hassles. I have also dealt with Adorama

and Focus camera with good experience but their prices are just like

B&H. In every case that I tried dealing with the other hooligans to

try to save a few bucks I got shafted. Nowadays whenever I think I

need something I look up the price at B&H. If its too high then I cant

afford it and wont buy it. Actually if you are unfortunate enough to

live in California even B&H prices seem unrealistically low. There is

only one outfit in my area serving millions of people with no

competition for 50 miles. Their prices are outrageous so I buy

everything mail order. Over the years I have been bitten a lot of

times before learning the golden rule so now I just save myself the

hassle and put out a few more dollars. I have always wanted to drop by

NY and visit some of these outfits to look face to face at the con

artists...maybe in the future.

Make shure you check out the LIGHTWARE MF series. Compared to LIGHTWARE everything else is

crap. They are expensive but you only have to buy once as opposed to fooling around with other bags. I

bought a photo treker AW my god what garbage. The divider system is a joke, there is no stiffness

whatsoever and even the material they use on the inside sheds endless amounts of lint. The

LIGHTWARE backpak is several thousand light-years ahead. Its too bad I did not have a chance to

look at LIGHTWARE until I happen to bump onto it in my local store. It would have saved me a lot of

money and aggravation. Good luck.

Be very careful when you pull the taped end of the film from the backing as this may cause electrostatic discharge which may cause steaks on the film, happened to me twice; now I use scissors to cut the film off. Good luck...

The best way to conduct the test is to use Bulb and a long cable release. First bring the mirror up, wait for the water to settle then trip and hold the shutter release then observe the water. This will give you the vibration results for the first curtain. After you release the shutter the results are meaningless because of the mirror return. Like was mentioned previously the vibrations you observed are meaningless because they may not be present at the time of exposure. While it is true that better tripod/head will improve sharpness if you really want to see how badly shutter vibration affects your image quality then I suggest you rent the 90F2.8 and 90F2.8LS (if you can find one). Then using the same setup take shots with both lenses for the various shutter speeds. Have the images carefully enlarged and compare them. I have personally found that if I mix the 20X24 prints at random and then inspect, I'm almost sure I can Identify the lenses but when I check I find that I'm wrong half the time, a classic case of paranoia.