ivan_i._singer1

Many people in this thread have sung the praises of Agfa Ultra 50 and I beg to differ. Sure, it has tight grain, but at 16x20 from 2-1/4 negs what decent film wouldn't? I have printed my own 6x9 negs from this film and cannot stand to print it. The color pack leans too red and produces very strange results on either Ultra II and Supra II. The color saturates, but at the cost of natural tones. I prefer any Fuji 100 film over this one any day of the week.

I would tell you more about this camera, but it is easier to just do a search of this website for my name: Ivan. I tend to write voluminous amounts of info about this beloved camera.

This posting generated some great responses. In my book, there is no reason not to use both 35mm and 2-1/4" for different purposes. I'll add my reasons for riding the fence:

 

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1) Portability- You can find cameras of both formats that are easily portable. I use a Kiev 60 for 6x6 that is not much larger than an N90s. I pocket my handheld Gossen meter to get the proper exposures.

 

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2)Automation- You either love it or hate it. I hate it and don't need it. If you love it, you need to be on another web site like http://db.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=photo%2enet for 35mm.

 

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3) Big Enlargements- You need to know how to make sharp negs, first off. That is an art and science in and of itself. I have printed color 8x10's that are sharp and nicely composed from either format. Today's films hide grain better than ver, so it really depends on how big you go, how much you crop, what quality of lens you use.

 

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4) Speed of use- This is a matter of style. I like to compose fast and don't like the Hassleblah and it's 2 cranks, darkslide and awkward handling for handheld. That is just me. I can shoot the same way with amy of my cameras. I also have a Fuji 6x9 Rangefinder for when I want a quantum leap in image quality.

 

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5) Price- Need I say more. Take a stab at the F5 with the full range of fixed focal length lenses (20, 35, 55, 85, 180, 300) and tell me that it is roughly the same wound size to your wallet as a Mamiya 7 with its three lenses (50, 75, 180). Film processing considerations aside, you are in for a penny in for a pound. Personally, I buy used, outdated manual bodies and like-new lenses and I can't complain about price.

 

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Just my emphatic 2 cents

 

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Ivan

John,

I have to agree with the last poster who said that the "portrait" lens is a misnomer, considering the many commercial applications that the standard 100mm lens has. I use a 100 and 180mm lens for my 6x9 camera and have used them both for "portrait"-type applications. Unlike 35mm, MF does not suffer the severe cropping limitations placed on the negative image area. What this means for you is: if you wanted to crop down to a 24mm x 36mm image area on your square format negative, you can just to get the 100mm short tele effect. On the other hand, by judicious use of camera angle, background, and tonal range, you can create any desired effect to yield a pleasing portrait with your 100 mm lens. If anything, you'll appreciate the extras your 100mm lens gives you over a 100mm lens for 35mm, namely, sharper image, greater depth of field (full frame), and less grain. In MF, can do more with less.

 

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-Ivan

I fell in love with MF from my first day out with a rented Fuji GSW690II. The lens quality and the lightweight, yet positive feel of the camera pushed me to take pictures that I could never achieve in 35mm or even in square format. I shoot lots of industrial landscapes and city scapes and depend on the Fuji optics to be able to reproduce the finest details, like individual rivets and shadow details, with extreme accuracy. Because I wanted a metal bodied camera with interchangeable lenses, I bought a used Fujica G690BL with 100/3.5 and later a 180/5.6 (I probably would choose two different fixed lens bodies now that I have had some time with one body and two lenses). These lenses despite being non-multi-coated are just as sharp and contrasty as I would want, although I suspect that the newer EBC coated lenses have better contrast. On the other hand, there is no problem with the B setting closing after the shutter is released, and no built-in lens hood to cause vignetting.

 

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Just my opinion added to the fray,

 

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Ivan

I'll just add my 2 cents:

 

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IMHO, Going from 35mm to MF does not require too much of leap of faith. The photographic principals are the same, the price is roughly the same (I assume that you are willing to buy used MF vs. new 35mm), and the choice of film is roughly the same (except if you are a true Kodachrome fan). Where MF differs is in the following major ways:

 

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1) Lenses- because the size of the negative allows more cropping options, you don't need as many lenses. I would be more concerned with buying a system with excellent lenses than I would with variety. The price of the average MF lens would prevent anyone from buying more than the bare bones.

 

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2) Format- Here you have many choices, but luckily you will find that your choice of camera system will dictate your format consideration. In other words, the camera and its shooting style will often dictate whether you want to go hiking with it or leave it permanently welded to you tripod at home. There is not much difference between 6x6 and 6x9 as far as image quality goes, but volumes can be said between shooting a wedding with a hasselblad vs. a Fuji RF; it all depends on your shooting style. Fuji 6x9 RF's are great for landscape, industrial, etc. but forget about close focus. Stick to any good square format SLR for that. I own both a Kiev 60 6x6 and a Fuji G690 6x9, and I use them for different things. When I go out shooting people and objects, I prefer the Kiev 60 because it handles more like a regular SLR. The negative area is smaller giving you two printing options: square, full neg (or tilted for vertical correction), or 2:3 aspect ratio usually as a way to acheive a rising front, like a view camera. Personally, I don't like 6x4.5, it is not enough of a jump from 35mm to be worth switching over.

 

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3) Depth of field- There is less of it for equivalent f-stops. Count on needing more light or faster film. Don't worry too much about grain. Worry more about contrast, saturation, and color balance.

 

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4) Weight and bulk- I love carrying my compact 35mm manual camera with all of the super sharp optics (I shoot a Nikon FM2n with 20, 55 Macro, and 180 lenses) I own, but when it comes to my Fuji with 100 and 180 lenses, I've got to make some choices. The primary one being: how far will I be from your subject. Choose your lens according to that criteria alone.

 

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5) Film- You have fewer exposures so your film choices are likely to be less dictated by what is in your camera, than what you brought with you. In MF, happiness is always having the right film for the job; know thy film, then go forth and shoot.

 

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6) Lack of automation- If you are accustomed to using all of your 35mm automation (motor drive, predictive autofocus, matrix metering, Zoom lenses) forget about MF for now. MF requires that you know how to use a handheld meter, period. Don't let the manufacturers fool you into thinking that MF automation is the only way to go. Why spend $3500 on a Mamiya 7 outfit just to get the built-in center-weighted light meter? My first $100 35mm camera had the same center-weighted meter, and you know what? I still had to learn to use a handheld meter to get the quality of light that I wanted on film.

 

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Enough said, hope this helps.

 

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-Ivan

Sure Hasselblad would have you believe that their system is on par with large format, if you use crappy view lenses and a rickety bellows. Whats the point of even discussing it? You want a MF system that's on par with 4x5, in terms of clarity and resolution? Try a Fuji 6x9 with Ektar 25.

I use my G690BL 100/3.5 and 180/5.6 for industrial landscapes and like it very much. The extreme lens sharpness, the overall feel handheld and ease of use make it a joy to use. For tripod use, it needs the tripod mount adaptor shoe to give it extra stability from slight panning movements. The viewfinder/parallax frame window is a little off, but nothing a little compensation could not solve. I like the 180mm viewer that came with my 180mm lens for framing, it is very bright and clear. Perfect for low light and detail spotting. The only practical problem I find is that the internal light absorption fabric is black felt, which tends to attract stray dust and hairs. Usually, a little preemptive masking tape run along the bottom of the frame helps here. Write back if you want to know more.

I cannot compare the other lenses of the line, but the Volna 80/2.8 MC is rather sharp at f8 or smaller. I tend to agree with others that it is not so sharp at larger apertures. Considering the larger negative size, I find that my micro-nikkor 55/2.8 is much sharper at the same large f-stops. The difference is that with faster speed films, I have more cropping options that do not produce objectionable grain. Try vertically cropping a horizonatal 35mm and watch your grain size grow like wild grass. For this purpose, I find shooting the kiev square 6x6 a better option when I don't know how I plan to print the image in the lab. Horizontal, vertical or square. I'd be happier with the Volna 80/2.8 if it was perhaps not as fast and just a little wider like 65mm. I guess I should be looking at the Flektogon 50/4 instead.

I have tested out the Fuji rangefinders and own one myself and can wholeheartedly say that the Fujinon 90/3.5, 100/3.5, and 180/5.6 lenses are superior to the Mamiya Sekor equivalents. The Fujinon lenses are basically CAM mounted view lenses, for which sharpness Fujinon is known for. I have printed 30x40 mural prints direct from the 100/3.5 of the G690BL handheld at 1/250s, f/5.6 and can see incredible detail and contrast in the print. I'd be surprised if the Mamiya lenses can match their resolving power at the same f-stop. The Fujinon bodies are rugged, easy to handle, and in the case of the new Fuji RF, lightweight. You don't have the interchangeable lens benefit, but for the price of another lens, you get a body thrown in. On the couple of occasions that I have used Mamiya RB67's, I have found them awkward, very heavy, and not all that quick. Between shutter recocks, film advance, and focus, you need to be a weightlifting octopus to handhold this beast. Just my $.02.

I tend to agree with the last commentator (paganoa@msn.com), who says to ignore the stress. You can't avoid the stress of having to make all of the shots come out right the first time. The best thing you can do is:

1) Always hire a good assistant. A good assistant (I find women to be better at soothing and coaxing nervous people into more relaxed dispositions) is always going to make it possible for you to focus on the real sellers; your unique compositions and timing. She will also be able to organize your group shots easier than the bride will. Sometimes she can sense who the real "important" people might be, like the ones who show up late after the ceremony, look and feel out of place until the drinks kick in. She can also help you to gather the info you need on the bride while you are busy shooting the groom.

 

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2) An advance verbal roadmap of the families involved. Sense if there will be conflicts (like the bride and groom not being able to see each other, ex-inlaws, old girlfriends, and other such faux-pas that don't sell too well). Don't be afraid to pry (albeit gently) into their lives. Remember, for the afternoon/evening/whatever, you are their family's personal chronicler of that date. Even if you never see them again after you deliver the album, they will remember you everytime they look at their wedding album. It helps your business if those memories are good.

 

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3) A timeline. Find out from the caterer, the band, the bride and groom what the timeline for the event will be. Do they have to rush out of the church or can they meander over? Always be two steps ahead of the crowd and be ready to catch them as they move from place to place.

 

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4) Visit the location(s) before the date. Scout out locations and lighting for group shots, romantic portraits, etc. Talk to the management, get friendly even, they can help you to clear or reserve areas for your setups.

 

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5) Have Fun! Try to relate to everyone you see in a light way. Treat them with respect and they will pay you back with personality in your shots.

 

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Hope this helps!

 

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Ivan

Sounds like you want a multi-purpose camera; a camera that can shoot portraits and turn around and be lugged through the countryside. Seven years ago I was in the same decision-making process, went 6x9, and would not trade it for anything else. I use a Fujica G690 w/100mm and 180mm lenses and use it to do headshots, weddings, industrial, landscape, everything! With 6x9 you start off with the largest image size and you get extreme sharpness at even the smallest format . Headshots could be cropped to 35mm sized neg areas with better quality than a full frame 35mm camera. Panoramas are easy to print full out to 90mm. Group shots can even be handheld at 1/125sec w/o blur. Don't settle for 645, it is not that different from 35mm.

 

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Because it is a leaf shutter design, flash sync ghosting is not an issue.

Thanks for the great, detailed responses! I especially appreciate the usage comments! I'm glad to hear that the 30mm has no vignetting. It'd be a shame to lose the film real estate over the corners!

I just thought of two other tips to getting even frame spacing. The cameras red dot to line up the film leader seems to throw of the frames about 3/4 of an inch too early. Advancing the film about 1 inch in a complete wind past the dot seems to give consistent results. That brings me to tip number two: Complete winds only. If you try to load the film in short strokes or by winding the take-up spool by hand, bad things happen. The sprocket gear seems to trip up, creating a grinding sound when you try to release the wind lever. You will get it to come back to the prewind position, at some cost to your sanity and a frame or so. It is a sound I never want to hear a camera make again!

In general, I would say that a good handheld lightmeter is worth its weight in gold over any MF TTL prism. Why spend hundreds of dollars to get a TTL prism when a good digital handheld flash/incidence meter would cost you about $250? The TTL can't give you flash readings, incident readings(!), nor long exposure timings. A good digital can improve upon the capabilities of TTL by being able to "dial-in" filter settings and other EV compensations, plus give you reflected meter readings from any part of the frame. I find that if I use my meter once or twice on the key lighting ratios and ranges (my Gossen Luna Star F can give me EV ranges by scanning the entire scene and an average EV in one reading), I can use that setting for many similar exposures.

I am considering buying a Zodiak 30mm fisheye lens for the Kiev 60. I see that Kalimex is selling the lens for about $200. I have read Bob Shell's comments on it in Shutterbug and although they are informal, he seems to like it. Any other comments?

 

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Email me at ivansinger@sprintmail.com

I just got a Kiev 60, TTL Prism, 80/2.8 lens, WLF, and carrying case as a gift. It is a 1988 vintage and seems to be fine optically and mechanically. For all intents and purposes, this camera is a GREAT bargain system. It is, like many used and older cameras, not perrfect though. The wind mechanism has a VERY tempermental wind lever. It has fooled me and overlapped frmaes when I have not been paying attention to the tiny click that it gives just beyond the end of the stop. Cocking the shutter until this click is heard seems to work consistently to give even frames. The TTL meter has not been tested, but the case is large enough to fit a couple of rolls of film and my Gossen Luna Star F. Why use a questionable TTL when a good handheld meter does the job so much better?

The problem of mood is an individual choice. I personally do not trust incandescent light for key portrait lighting. In a pinch, like at a wedding for a grabshot, I will use a fast shutter speed, handheld, with off-angle (not directed up, but up and off to the side) bounce flash to approximate any ambient lighting. If I need the ambience of candlelighting and highly intimate mood, I'd just slow up the shutter speed to 1/8 or 1/4 for f5.6 or f8, respectively. At least, you'd get the flame and a little of the warmth without losing the shot altogether, due to blur.

 

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The outdoor shot is a tougher scenario. It is like a nighttime shot with fill-flash. I'd place the subject in a part of the frame with a large darkened area, like in front of an empty section of wall. This will create a light balance (you don't want that empty wall in there anyway) and prevent any movement blur from haloing the subject. If they move, it may not show up, provided you keep the flash exposure at least 1.5 stops brighter than ambient. I'd buy a good flash meter like the Gossen Luna Star F2, to give you your mix ratio at all shutter speeds. Use tripod on this shot too (you might need as much as two seconds at f11 or f16, ASA 400) as far back as possible (to increase DOF spread and capture the building).

 

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Just my two cents,

Ivan

ivansinger@sprintmail.com

Actually, Douglas, I'm curious about the 65/f8 lens and the 150/5.6. You don't often see these lenses for sale in the states.

 

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I have the 180/5.6 and think that the images I get are the sharpest I've ever seen at that focal length, any format. What do you think of the edge-to-edge sharpness of the 65? Have you shot any chromes with it?

 

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Also, do you find much opportunity to use the 150/5.6? I would bet that it tightens up the frame of the 100/3.5 a bit, but with a 2 meter minimum focal distance, your image size would probably look smaller than the same image on your 100/3.5. Tell us what you think.

 

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Ivan

Despite what many people have said on this site, I still think that you can handhold virtually MF SLR or RF camera down to 1/30 sec, as long as you mind three things: weight, grip, and cold.

 

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A heavy camera like the RZ67 might not be a problem, but how strong are you? Can you curl 50 lbs in your sleep? If you are like most of us, you'd prefer to be able to lug more/larger lenses, than worry about the weight of the body. If the camera is too heavy, you will shake from tension and the camera will swing in your arms; good for babies, not for cameras.

 

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Grip. If you can steady the beast you can ride it anywhere! You probably know: the best way to hold a camera steady is to hold breath and brace your arms against your chest or on bent knee. SLR designs and rangefinders are great for this reason, but most have virtually no place to grip well. Only MF camera I know has a grip worth its salt: Pentax 6x7. (the Pentax 645 has a grip, but why use 645 format when 6x7 is so much sweeter?) If you don't like the price of a Pentax 6x7 outfit, you might look at older SLR designs, like the kiev 60 (6x6) or Norita Graflex (6x6), based on the look and feel of the Nikon F. I have a Kiev 60 and have tried the Norita, but 6x6 is a surprisingly limited frame size. I still would opt for a rangefinder design. Try out the Fuji rangefinders and you might like them. You can grip them like a picture frame if you need it real steady. Don't let the fixed focal length dissuade you, you can crop 6x9 to almost any size you want without loss in quality. Mamiya 7 looks like a great solution to all of the above problems, but right now, they will cost you your first born to buy the body and lenses new. I like my first born too much to compromise his college education.

 

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Lastly, the cold. The weather being what it is, you don't want to miss a shot due to cold weather, or shivering and shaking your handheld camera. Try a tripod in cold weather when possible.

 

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You have some real solutions to the weight problem.

Fujica Rangefinders (6x7 and 6x9). The new ones are made of tough plastic and have excellent optics. Best of all they weigh about 2-3 pounds!!! You won't believe how light they are. My first show featured a 4'x6' print made from a rented GSW690II (fixed 90mm lens) that I carried around on a bicycle on a bitter cold morning in March in Baltimore. I shot handheld (with leather driving gloves) at 1/60th of a second. At that size the shake is slight (it is slightly softer than I would have liked), but the print is beautiful! I could not repeat the lighting I got on that day, but am glad that I got the shot I wanted. I tried with my own Fujica G690, a 4.5 lb metal bodied camera with 100/3.5 interchangeable lenses, but what I gained in sharpness at 1/125s or 1/250s, I lost in timing. Sometimes you gotta go with what you got...

 

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I have used these Fujica 6x9 RF cameras for commercial, wedding and portraiture with great success. For wedding work, the spontanaeity and visibility of the image throughout the exposure, have allowed me to know when I have pulled off my shot better than a Polaroid back. If I miss, just two quick strokes and I am back in business. You might wait longer for you strobe to recycle indoors at f16 than to cock the shutter.

 

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If you have any other questions, write me back at ivansinger@sprintmail.com.

I bought a Norita outfit (non-TTL prism, 80/2.0) about 4 yeats ago on a brisk, wintery day in NYC. It worked fine in the shop, but when I took it outdoors (it was about 20 degrees F or lower), the mirror would stick in the up position. It would eventually fall back down upon brief warming. In those years, I was too broke to keep a camera that I couldn't trust. I still loved the feel and wished they had one to exchange. Instead, I returned it. Am I a fool? What could have been happening?

 

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Please Email me: Ivansinger@sprintmail.com

I can't really comment on any of the price issues or on the last year made, but I can say this: Wouldn't trade it for the world!

 

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I purchased a 690BL with 100/3.5 in 1991 for $425 in Ex condition. There were no marks on the lens and the metal body had some dings and worn spots. My guess is that the body was built in 1973-5, because the manual that came with it was copyright 1972.

 

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The best thing about this camera is the lens quality. They are superb! I have had Hassy and Mamiya RB owners look at my transparencies and say: I can't believe how sharp they are! I used to depend on this sharpness to satisfy commerical customers, who often change their minds about cropping after the fact. You just have to remember to take a step back; you won't lose the extra clarity by taking in a few more things on the periphery.

 

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Other things of import: The handling. Because it is a RF design, you won't have to adjust your shooting style for the camera when switching

from 35mm to 6x9. It is heavy though (like 3.5 pounds) and lacks a comfortable grip for the right hand. I hook a finger around the large neckstrap post, which helps. This camera is not for the weak or small handed.

 

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Lens assortment: As someone else has said, you are limited to 4 lenses: 65/5.6, 100/3.5, 150/5.6, and 180/5.6. True enough, they are a limited lot and the minimum focus distance will practically prevent you from using anything closer than 1.5 meters for the 100/3.5. I also own a mint condition 180/5.6 (I paid $550 for this one last year)which has a 2.5 meter mfd. I use it strictly outdoors to pull in far away landscapes and do street photography. Not much else. Its damn sharp though, edge to edge like the 100/3.5.

 

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Bugs: Its only flaw in the design is that you can overadvance and lose unexposed frames if you don't fully advance the film to the end of the throw on the first wind. This is because the leaf shutter reset is coupled to the body by a simple lever and can needs to be fully thrown before it will fire. There is a useful workaround, if you misfire. First, leave the film advance alone. Next is to close the cloth shutter, remove the lens, fire the leaf shutter by hand, and throw

the metal prong clockwise to cock the shutter. There is a handy switch on the back that was designed for sheetfilm use that allows you to trip the shutter at will (there is a lock on the button otherwise). I usually keep this setting on sheet film.

 

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Another bug is the felt that is used for light absorption. It tends to pick up little stray hairs and things that will be apparent mostly as blurred strands on the top of the frame. I use a piece of scotch tape to remove them occasionally. Todays Fujicas use matte black paint and don't have this problem.

 

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I have made many prints from the negatives and can stare endlessly at them marvelling at the clarity of a tight weave cotton fabric or individual strands of hair of a waist-high portrait.

 

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Email me if you have any other questions.

ivansinger@sprintmail.com

I have been using my 60CT1 for 7 years and love it! I am a tall person and don't mind its size or the external battery pack. Considering that you probably want to use this monster with a rotating bracket, like the Stroboframe, you are going to be weighed down anyway with gear, why not have the big power and fast recycle time, too? I am a great believer in bounced lighting sources and I find many times that I use it with 200 ASA film in a room with 8-10 foot ceilings gives me a comfortable F8 or F5.6 for non-overhead bounce. Recycle time is usually not more than 5-7 seconds at full power. The ability to add another head on to the pack is a bonus. I also have the remote flash adaptor and rely on its accuracy at all times. I don't think that thew 45 series uses the same adaptor, but I may be wrong.

 

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Just my 2 cents!