zeos_386sx

Mr. Kaplan,

I apologise for misunderstanding your intent. I think you have made an astute suggestion. It would solve many problems and I hope Leica listens to you.

Right now, Leica is attempting to "bridge" the gap between old and new technologies. While they are attempting to embrace the new it would seem wise to continue embracing the old. It is clear that there is much money to be made in the old...

"Your average Leica M is likely to outlast film, so why carbon fiber?" - Eliot Rosen

Just because it looks so nice....

I enjoyed Mr. Kaplan's comment in another thread...

"With prices like these, and Zorkies bringing big bucks from those who don't know better, perhaps Leica's salvation would be in making black paint genuine "counterfeit" M cameras."

While that comment was made in jest there is actually some merit to it. Leica could make accurate and legitimate copies of old cameras for collectors. I believe someone in the Leica rangefinderforum had an "a la carte" IIIc/f/? made up.

If Leica were to offer reproductions of its old classics it would make Leica money while relieving the worry buyers have about authenticity.

Thank you for your very informative answers.

Another question crossed my mind after my original post. How would carbon fiber react to the inevitable perspiration/acids from a shooters hands.

There is a piece of polished carbon fiber attached to my computer

case. It is a really beautiful material. Quite a while back someone

in the Leica forum suggested its use for Leica camera bodies. Could

a camera body be made of carbon fiber?

Mr. Finney,

Given the number of fakes floating around it appears that the crooks are in a very competitive field. Given the prices being paid for some of these cameras (and the competition) I would be surprised if they didn't do their best work.

It is possible to electroplate brass with chrome. Does anyone know if a chrome body can be electroplated with brass?

I don't know if Leica ever painted a chrome body but I doubt it. To fake a painted Leica body would require filling in and smoothing the old serial number, brass plating the chrome body, re-engraving an appropriate serial number, and then painting the camera.

I can think of two ways to detect a painted fake created by using an original Leica body of the same type. First, test a small piece of the paint on the subject camera and make certain it was the same type as paint used by Leica. Two, open the camera and in an unexposed area scrape into the brass surface. If you reach chrome....well...

Don't anticipate a cloth shutter on the new digital M. CEO Cohn made it clear in an interview that Leica would be using a blade shutter. The only question is which way it will travel - vertically or horizontally.

A horizontal blade shutter would allow for current camera dimensions and, I assume, a much faster flash sync. It could also be very fast (like the horizontal, titanium blade used on the Canon high speed F1 - 14fps). However, the digital M would probably need an auxilliary power pack to hit speeds like that and use low resolutions.

If the CCD is APS sized then the shutter can be smaller than the full-frame blade used on the Canon F1. Interesting possibilities.

Pacific Rim Camera has a page about the <a href="http://www.pacificrimcamera.com/pp/leica/sm/iiig.htm" target="_blank">Leica IIIG</a>

and the production numbers. <br>

Then you get stuff like the "Leica 3G Swedish Crown Model - Beautiful !!!

Extremly rare Black Body !!!!!!" on Ebay for $7000.

That certainly looks like a made over Zorki to me.

<a href="http://www.vintagecameras.co.uk/ltd/leicab.htm" target="_blank">Vintage Cameras in the UK</a> has two BP M4's for 3000 and 4000 GBP ($5479 and $7305). <br>

<br>

A 2004 article in <a href="http://www.shutterbug.com/features/0904sb_tokyo/" target="_blank">Shutterbug</a> - "What?s Hot In The Tokyo Used Camera Biz?"- shows prices being paid in Japan for used Leicas. One item caught my eye. At the SUKIYA CAMERA shop in Tokyo "Leica M2, M3, and M4 in black paint: $2800-$9000, depending upon the condition".<br>

<br>

The prices at the Leica Store in Stockholm are representative of prices currently being paid for these cameras around the world.<br>

Mr. Phleger,

Keep you BP M4 with the knowledge that while you hold it the price will probably keep going up. You just haven't found a buyer...YET.

That is a beautiful camera...though I remain astounded that people are willing to pay that much money for it while, as Mr. Richardson noted, "Normal user M2 and M3's routinely go for around 600 dollars or so". However, I would point out to Mr. Richardson that today for that same "600 dollars or so" you can buy NEW cameras with lenses and all the bells-and-whistles.

Leicas astound me!

I'm astounded by the prices being asked for old Leica M cameras. <br>

<br>

<a href="http://www.leicastore.com/leica_m_catalogue.html"

target="_blank">The Leica Store</a>

in Stockholm, Sweden lists four "black paint" M's for sale. The

lowest price being asked is for a BP M4 at euro 4150 ($5035). The

two M2's are going for euro 4300 ($5218) and euro 4500 ($5461). The

stunner is the BP M3 with a price of euro 6750 ($8192).<br>

<br>

The prices for new Leicas are starting to sound more-and-more

reasonable.

"This is probably not a digital camera for the wedding photo crowd, but for other professional uses, it is right there with the best."

I have to ask why you wouldn't recommend the camera/DMR combo for wedding photography...

The posters at rangefinderforum seem to agree with Mr. Finney's "Any shutter will work".

The following are quotes from LFI by the last CEOs of Leica. I read these to support backward compatability.

"We thought it reasonable to inform M customers sooner, rather than later, that the Msystem

- lenses, cameras and ACCESSORIES - remains capable of development, offering further alternatives beyond analogue technology - namely digital technology." - HANNS-PETER COHN

"We want to safeguard our customers?investments." - Ralf Coenen

"People have different ways of getting into Leica. But to provide a half-hearted introductory tool is a bad idea. And just how does one trim down the component list of a purist product like the Leica M? By replacing the cloth shutter with a standard? By using an off-the-rack magnesium body rather than milling it from a solid metal block? Indeed, there are many possibilities, but in the end we wouldn?t really be looking at a real Leica." - Ralf Coenen

I realize that both of those gentlemen are doing other things now. However, it seems possible to me that given the above statements we might be looking at a horizontal shutter for the digital M.

The Leica MP/M4/M2/M3's are all 3.03"(38mm) tall.

If the viso's and goggle-lenses will not work on the M7 at .1" (2.54mm) taller and the RD1 is .45" (11.43mm) taller than any of them then I guess the viso and goggle users who buy digital M's will be out of luck - Unless Leica goes with a horizontal shutter.

Is that possible?

A thread at the Leica rangefindgerforum questioned whether a vertical

shutter would be necessary for the digital M.

I question whether a vertical shutter would involve changing the

distance of the rangefinder from the lens mount. If that happened

then some old Leica products would not work with the digital M - like

lenses with goggles and the Viso's.

Can you put a vertical shutter between the back of an M lense and a

CCD/CMOS without having to raise the rangefinder?

The Epson RD1 is .35" taller than an M7. Does anyone know if that

height difference between the cameras translates into a difference

between lens-mounts and rangefinders?

Leica Geosystems already has a Chinese plant in place. If I remember correctly they make about 20% of their yearly income in China. It wouldn't surprise me to see Leica Camera follow their lead.

I'm not certain that Leica's customer base would buy Chinese made products. I would buy a new Leica without seeing it if I knew it was made/assembled in the Solms factory. If I knew the camera was made in China I would want to see it and test it before buying it. That may be irrational but it is how I feel.

Ebay has a 12575 for sale. It's only about $10 right now. <br>

<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=30030&item=7523840084&rd=1" target="_blank">ebay - 12575 hood</a>

The 21-35mm combination is interesting. If you plan to go digital in the future I would suggest you consider the implications of the new digital M's lens factor (probably 1.37x).<br>

<br>

At that lens factor M lenses would frame as follows:<br>

21mm = 28-29mm<br>

35mm = 48mm<br>

50mm = 68.5mm<br>

75mm = 102-103mm<br>

90mm = 123mm<br>

<br>

If most of your work is wide-angle you might want to consider a 50mm.<br>

<br>

RE: Monkey C's picture...

That's Master Granovsky in disguise for shooting Canadian bears and streetwalkers. He's so cute they come right over to lick him on the cheek.