harish

I am not sure how to reply to you, but i will still try. I dont know what India deserves, or for that matter what other countries deserve. However, about Mother, I am sure she did something atleast. Most of us critics dont even bother to do anything and are content criticising.

I am not targetting you Bob. I know and I sense, that you have your own greviances with the surrounding, but then She did something for those who were just negelected, and I respect her for that.

Why dont you an do so many like us try to do something for people whereever we are. And I am sure she never bothered about remarks.

Bye

Dear Gerry,

Namaste! I am really glad that you got this discussion back to the track. Nudity?s serious treatment can be seen in the sculptures seen at the Indian temples like Ajanata and Ellora in India. I quote this particular example assuming that you have quite an idea about India.

Like you, I also have my reservation on nudity which infringes on pornography. However, I am sure that serious treatment of nudity is possible, and many photographers have and are trying to achieve that. I did go through your portfolio and saw your work. You have a style in which you prefer as you said Faces.

However, I am sure just as you prefer beautiful faces, people prefer to see beautiful bodies, though not necessarily like those of fashion models. It?s a pretty tough question to answer and really, its more about a way of expression of some facts of life.

I know I have not been able to answer your question properly, but then this is the best I could do.

Take care,

Harish.

Hi,

Thanks for contributing to the thread. I agree with you on the fact that many of the photgraphers take their own pics. I didnt mean that the photographers should as a rule take their own pics.

My meaning was that sometimes the models dont come to the expectation of the photgrapher or the audience and the photgrapher might be able to shoot the expression better if he/she does on him/herself.

I hope I have been able to provide you a satisfactory answer.

Bye

I am really amazed at your remarks. it just seems to me that you are one of those Spiritual Tourists. Why instead of remarks, dont you write something in deatils which could give me a detailed outlook of your opinon.

And I am not really happy with you, when you said "Calcutta Vulture." You can say "Fuck off," to me, but then you know its worthless. With every one of your writings, it seems that I am talking to someone who doesnt himself know what he is talking about.

Anyways, I wish you best of luck. ANd hey others! I will write soon, but for a night, I would wait for some more comments to come in.

Peace

Dear Bob,

I had visited the URL's which you have pasted on your page in Photo.net, when you first replied to me. I have seen some of your work too and was waiting for you to write about your experience.

Let me at the first instance tell you that I would not like to make any comments which would be personalized to anyone here. I would rather give this subject a generalized undertone.

You quote "India certainly has an honourable religious tradition, but that has been largely dishonoured by the divisive social systems it has spawned..." Social systems are a part of human society. No society can ever claim that it has no social system and doesnt suffer from the malices attached to it. To have a better understanding of it, I would request you to consult Max Weber's, Theory of Protestant Ethics, where he tries to deivce a Theory based on religion for the success of the European Society.

"....and which those religious beliefs perpetuate." According to my knowledge about religions, if any of the five great religions have survived till date, it is due to the fundamental strengths of the religion.

You have stayed some time in India and it would be most appropriate to ask you if you have any answers for the questions you have just asked me?

The answer to the Kargil one, according to me is Patriotism, which I am sure happens everywhere. The answer to the second one, is and I stress, that Ganesh possesion and the fanfare attached was started during the indipendence Struggle of India to weave the different religions to the Indian society. It was meant to be a festival where people from all religions could participate and enjoy, showing there brotherhood for each other. The English had long rules us based on the famous principle of "Divide and Rule," where they for their best intrests made every efforts to kep the Indian society divided in the name of Religion. And the irony is, they could do it for 200 years!However now a Ganesh possesion through a Muslim slum means a lot of trouble for the law and order of the particular city you have in your mind.

I can go on answering your questions the way I think them as appropriate, however this wont be meaningful because I would rather like to know what do you think about such acts.

The Indian society is one of the oldest in the world, having seen and accepted the confluence of so many cultures, including European in the later stages (see the "Aryan Invasion Theory"). I am talking in the same lines as the United States of America, where we are witness to the same thing, with people from various countries and cultures migrating bringing so much diversity along with them. However America, compared to India is still a new society.

I would at this instance like to ask you a simple question. Why did you come to India?

I have interview numerous foreigners who come to my country, and their remarks can be generalized into two catagories. The remarks were never about the beautiful forts or the palaces, but always about the people and our society as a whole. Many have not accepted it and I am sure they would never come back to this country again. But then there are so many others who have witnessed life here among the "naked street children" and the "improvised mother" about whom you wrote in your peice. And according to me they are the real ambassadors to the Indian society. (Dominique Lappire, "City of Joy")

I also have no reservations when I say that I have seen so many of the foreigners who really enjoyed and mocked the pain and anguish which you quote in your examples. I hope to get your acceptance in this matter.

Religion has always, be it India, be it Europe or the Middle East, been an intergral part of polity. It is no surprise when I say that Church was very powerful in the English society and at times it even misused its power for the betterment of few. Should I blame the religion for such acts. My answer will be No.

One of the most loved personality of the Modern Indian Society has been an Albanian. I am sure you know her and so does the whole world when I name Mother Teresa. Was she a Hindu, was she a Muslim? The answer is a clear No. We never even thought of her as a Christian. Did you ever think why still we love her? Did you ever see the places that she worked in? Most of the others, including Indian will feel themselves lowered even on thinking about it. However, with pure devotion to her adopted land she worked. Never to bask in the glory of a Nobel Price or anything else. In my opinion the Jury of Nobel made themselves priviledged by making her accept the Prize.

As she quotes "I choose the poverty of our poor people. But I am grateful to receive (the Nobel Prize) in the name of the hungry, the naked, the homeless, of the crippled, of the blind, of the lepers, of all those people who feel unwanted, unloved, uncared-for throughout society, people that have become a burden to the society and are shunned by everyone."

When I talk about spirituality, this is one of the aspects of it which I am talking about. Trust me, it is very easy to comment on situations, when one has never even see it. There are people much more knowledgeble and dedicated than me and you, but the answers to the social problems are not as easy as it seems.

When you talk about society as a whole, America itself suffered from a malice in the name of Racism. As Martin Luther King, Jr quotes "I look forward confidently to the day when all who work for a living will be one with no thought to their separateness as Negroes, Jews, Italians or any other distinctions. This will be the day when we bring into full realization the American dream -- a dream yet unfulfilled. A dream of equality of opportunity, of privilege and property widely distributed; a dream of a land where men will not take necessities from the many to give luxuries to the few; a dream of a land where men will not argue that the color of a man's skin determines the content of his character; a dream of a nation where all our gifts and resources are held not for ourselves alone, but as instruments of service for the rest of humanity; the dream of a country where every man will respect the dignity and worth of the human personality."

Has that dream been acheived, the answer is still a clear No. And I wonder from when did humans started to have a Race. I though we could only have Races for animals.

When you talk about Spiritual Tourists, like I said before, yes there are so many here. Most of them in their late 40's, trying to find out the reason for their existance. Osho's dream was to provide them with that. I am sure many of us, and I include myself in this doubt the ways he preached. But then there are so many who loved his ways, who even after his death still accept him as a whole. For me Spirituality lies inside me. I find my peace, which the sole motive of spirituality in helping people whom I know accept me without any tradeoff's.

I am really amazed why people from the Western world come to my country or any other country looking for Spirituality. There are so many happy people in their own country, and they didnt need to search it. They knew they had it. The bonding of a family in the Western world is so weak. Did we ever think why? I am sure we dont because we are raised in the setup and accept it. As a famous saying goes, "West has all the money, East all the peace." Ironic why peace and money cant exist at the same place. Rather than accepting and inculcating the others merits we try to pin point the demerits.

And by the way, isnt it a great experience for so many of us artists to have a display of their photgraphs or other art forms in a flashy hotel with costly wines flowing. Half drunk connesuiers of art (I am sure many dont even know the A's and B's of it) , trying to interpret the dying man, the improvised kid, or a half beaten, bullet hit person. Thw whole meaning of art takes an ugly form when we present them to people who could never really understand what it means to be the person whos pains and pity they are trying to appreciate.

I am sorry if I have hurt egos' here, but then this is what the human society is moving towards. And under human society, I have no shame to include my homeland--India.

Do you know where the real shame of the society lies. It lies not in having poor people, it lies not in having leppers and beggers. It lies in having people like me and you who though able, try to blame it rather than improve it. I am sure that when you talk about the "Danish Filmmaker," he is trying to make a porn on the society, the Human Society as a whole.

Bob, so much trouble and situations like Bihar arise because of the desire of cerain classes and people like LK Advani, to derive their own benefits at the costs of others. And when someone tries to do this, resistance has to come. Everyone cant be MK Gandhi, and where the society, Indian as well as Human is heading, people like him and Benjamin Franklin would be long forgotten if those able, like you and me, donot present the realities, in whatever way we are comfortable to the others. Instead of making a mockery of anything, it would be rather befitting if we could raise the issues and try to solve them.

I would finally like to apologize if I did hurt someone in what I wrote. I am not that good with words but I like to call a Spade a Spade.

Peace

Harish

Dear Thomas,

You asked about the other thread I had posted on the site. It was about photgraphers posing nude for themselves. The only reason I posted that thread is that many like me feel that a person can bring in the correct emotions , whats on their mind if they do it themselves.

It was just an opinion and if you go through the thread you will find two other fellow members affirming me.

I hope this answer would have been satisfactory.

Bye,

My question was meant to be a general observation, a study on the sociological and cultural aspects of the human society. It was and is never meant to mean anything other than a social discussion.

I think many of us including me have really ignored the real questions and my comments and divulged into something that I never intended to raise.

For me, photography is an art. Also in this community, if someone looks at the comments given to nude photgraphs, there has always been a stress on the line of demarcation between pornography and artistic imagary.

I am sure that noone here contributes to promote pornography. Pornography has always been common, be it Asia or the Western world. However presentations of emotions and thoughts based on nudity has still been a very less talked subject in the Asian world.

I hope that I have been able to explain myself is a way more befitting to the readers. Once again I should reinstate that the discussion which I have tried to have here stresses on the Sociological and other aspects of photgraphy and cultural differences.

Peace

Harish

"As for Indians and nudity, they have been sculpting it thousands of years longer than the West has been photographing it." Right! But then what happened now, why it is seen as a taboo is my question?

I should bring to your knowledge that in a particular Asian country, on certain occasions naked women were made to sleep on the table on which food was to be served. Imagine yourself eating something straight from a womans body. And it was accepted.

However, though accepted as a part of Art and religion, nudity has never been accepted as a part of day to day life in most of the Asian countries. Nudity has always been an artists imagination more than a matter of fact kind of thing.

Anyways thats just a thought, a healthy discussion is always welcome

peace

Harish

Dear Bob,

With all due respects, I am really amazed by the comments you have posted here. I dont see a reason why you should reach for a gun.

I would like to highlight that this is the same kind of mentality which leads to so many of the worthless and fruitless wars and rifts which have plagued the human society on the whole.

On the lighter side, you are standing on the comfortable side of the gun. Can you dare to stand when someone's pointing that same stuff on you. I have serious doubts..

Sorry if you felt bad, or if anyone else feels bad on reading this. But then certain remarks like the one which Bob gave needs to be answered and I tried to be as polite as I could.

Peace

Harish

Dear Members,

Thanks for the input you gave me. Replying to Csab, I will say that there are many Indian photgrpahers on this site and whose work never touched nudity. As Brend and Mike said, nudity and eroticism has been a powerful force in India. ANybody who has visited this country will agree with me when i say that most of the Indian temples of the earlier century had a very high nudity content in the sculptures.

However this was mostly spiritual and according to me, accepted to the society. However modern day India and Asia, are loosing there own cultural independence and creativity to Western forces. For us wh oenjoy art, its not necessary which side of the globe we are, whats necessary is that the art is being lost.

I will still stick to my stand that leaving a few, nudity and bold topics have not been touched by Asians and Indian's in most of the Art forms including Photography.

I will welcome your comments,

Peace

Harish

thank you everyone for cotributing an answer for my question. I just wanted to let you know that most of the nudes we see are not really artistic. IN the case of most of the nudes, the model just cant reflect the feel. And as many said, why only females, we should also have males doing that, if they think they are worthy enough to reflect an emotion.

Thanks again,

Peace

Harish

I have noticed that the choice of subject and the presentation style

greatly depends on the georgraphical location from where the

photographer belongs.

As an example, the Indian and Asian photographers still prefer

abstaining themselves from nudity and largely concentrate on subjects

as nature, sadness, religion, dances. On the other hand, western

photographers are quite comfortable with nudity and their presentation

is also differnt as in the choice of colors and circumstances.

I would love to hear opinions from everyone in relation to this string.

bye,

harish

Dear everyone,

I would like to share a thought of mine. I am a very recentt member

of this site and I love it dearly. I have been particularly intrested

in nudes, though not neccesarliy for nudity purpose but more on the

emotional aspects.

Most of the time, the subject fails to live to the expectations of the

photographers and really then the pic becomes lustful. My opinion is

that the photographers, specially the female ones should try to pose

nude for themselves, because they know exactly what they want from the

pic. It is not neccesary that they should have a great body, whats

necessary is that the feelings are reflected properly.

I will like to hear comments from my fellow members on this topic of mine.

peace,

Harish

Dear TIffany.

Accoring to "Marshall Goff , oct 03, 2004; 03:27 p.m., he quotes, "There is no special attention paid to ratings by people who don't post pictures. The site is built on the assumption that anyone who registers can be a photographer, a critic, or both."" Those who quote low are not really the people who like to quote low, they are the people who maybe are accepting more from you. As in my case, truthfully, I am looking for one photo which I can really say is "amazing" forever. Although I cant afford photography, still I can accept this one photgrapher who could give me that.

Why are you worried about bieng rated low, the point is that you should strive to prove that you can produce better pics, if you cant do that, well then you dont have any creativity.

peace

harish