karl_petersson

Well the two trash cans are both in shiny crome so as such they are identical, The old saying is to follow the shadow or as in this case black strips.

The strip I do believe is not a strip but a reasonably large softbox and that is what you will need to use.

Secondly is the thing that you need to be able to control the surronding so that you can decide to where to put your highlights and shadows ie building in more or simply to bring in the surronding closer.

Please note that the contrast between highlights and shadows are much greater in the shiny example and that is the thing that makes the first one looking "brushed"

Good luck

Karl

Fantastic, thank you very much for you help.

This was the info that I wanted.

Its so nice to get this kind of quick and great response.

Karl

I hope that I will be able to help you guys out some day.

Is there anybody here that has any experiences with these, I am not

looking at it for price but mainly for ease of transport and still

having a large softbox style light source.

Are they reasonably even as lightsource or are they very hot spotie

and do you lose lots or just "normal" amount of the power of the

strobe.

I am planning to get one of the AB's and maybe one of these Brolly

boxes to try out and to use as a portable small light that I dont

have to be to worried about since it comes in at such a nice price.

And then to get some more if I am happy with them.

Thanks for any help

Karl

Ha ha ha ha ha

This is a funny post, Sorry I am not disrespecting at all but please Black Swan why are you pulling pix all from the website of Americas Next topmodel and using as examples, the whole issue of copyrighted material aside wich I agree with completely, if at least you would say where you had downloaded these pix from.

None of the pix from this telly show has been anything to fall over for and are fairly standard even though in some cases they have used a couple of photographers whos has done some good work this show shure has not showed any of that.

And as another poster did say have a look at the show and you could get an idea of how some of these people works.

Otherwise I think we should do the bi-weekly Lighting theme compulsory reading before you post a question about light here.

The link ie here: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-one-category?topic_id=1824&category=Administration

And really I am saying this without being in any way ironic or trying to take the piss out of you, but if you are going to let yourself be "inspired" by other peoples light please choose some good ones.

My demi gods has been Avedon and Hiro but Demarchelier is a sweet one as well Have a good look at : http://www.demarchelier.net/home.html

They might look simple and stright forward but all of them are using the best setup for what they wish to achive, no more no less.

Karl

And please dont take my post as some form of putting you down Have a look at these photographers and see when fashion photography goes so much further then the "reality" of reality TV

Check these links out for on how to construct your own ringlight.

flash light:http://www.tapstream.com/sections/gear/diy/ringflash.html

and then for bulbs:http://www.noestudios.com/photo/ringlight/

Both are the budget versions and rather funny constructions and does not look to complicated. I've not tried myself yet but I will some day when I have the time.

Karl

I have to agree with Brooks here, the second shoot is better. Although I think the point of highlights (in the first shoot) in the milkcarton and napkin is disturbing I acctually find that the partial crop of milk and apple that I am guessing that it is is more disturbing, I dont want to ask myself what something in the picture is, an apple, a round ketchup bottle or what etc etc that is detering from the product interest. I think it is very important that even if something is obscured in the image or only gives atmosphere to the image it is important that it is clear what that is otherwise I am starting to look closer at that and forgetting the product. Maybe I am overly anal here but the less elements you work with the more importance they get.

Also if I would go for the simple stomach test and the product in the second shoot looks simply more tasty due in much to the better coating and better looking frying/browning and less disturbing elements in the image.

And a little bit of cultural heritage here (coming from the north of europe) If the projected audience is school staff or parents buying food for their children do not include ketchup in the picture as it in many camps will have the connotation of poor food culture and fast (crap) food with low health content.

But lastly thank you for raising a really interesting post that it has been a real pleasure to read, and the answers.

Karl

Thanks all of you guys, this really helped. It also opened up the financial side of things since this gives me more option to find a suitable roll film back second hand.

You need to let me know when you are thinking of getting rid of that sinar roll film back, all I know is that they are good but ooh so pricey.

Thanks all of you.

Karl

Hi everybody.

I was wondering if someone could bring me up to speed and general

knowledga on roll film backs.

I have a normal (;-)) Sinar Norma and have only used it with sheet

film, the back is the standard back (dont know the correct name but

spring loaded to hold down the film cassete)and possible to remove

or rotate with locking sliders on the sides.

Now I wanted to get myself a roll film back for it, a 6x9 and maybe

later a 6x12 preferably used so I am heading the ebay way.

I have used roll film backs a very long time ago but have forgotten

all about them and dont know about standards, fittings and such.

Could someone help me with what kinds of roll film backs I could use

on my Norma and how would I fit them.

I sort of understand that there is a slip in version (like a sheet

film cassete and some form of clipons. but are there different

clipons and different slipins.

If someone could straighten my questions marks it would be great.

Karl

I think several people here, me included but you will have to provide more info where is the reflection etc etc or better still post an image of the problem and maybe then we could help you.

Karl

I think Steve Hamley is very right about the quality about large format ie difficult to bet in regards of quality.

But if you are looking at starting out in product photography you might want to take it a bit easy on the investments. There is plenty to do in photoshop to correct things with in regards of perspective and such. There is no question about that product photography is moving more and more to digital. The prime reason why I would recomend you getting a LF is for learning and understanding the idea of movements and perspective on a truly flexible camera and once you will have a look at a correctly exposed 5x4 or 10x8 chrome it is very difficult to go back. If money is no issue you might want to look at the digital backs to fit onto a LF camera and if you only would shoot products and stuff that never moves a scanning back is acctually lover in price today. The sinar back is very nice but oboy what a price tag on it.

The good thing is that if you get yourself a modular camera ie most LF cameras but the big names Sinar Cambo Linhof Toyo etc etc etc you could easily upgrade later to a digital version of the camera.

For example a Sinar Norma will acctually take a digital back and that camera was ceased production in the 70's. And you can pick them up reasonably cheap.

Good luck

Have a look at this in regards of colormanagment http://www.digitaldog.net/tips/ This is my fave CMM guru Andrew Rodney old website now part of the Pixelgenius gang that does the Pixelgenius Photokits

Another option is to buy the Real World Color Management

by Bruce Fraser, Fred Bunting, Chris Murphy book.

There is another factor that seems no one has mentioned, longivety (I hope I spelled that right now)

I'm from sweden and there I do know some guys who are working with mainly furniture in interiors and a bit similar to IKEA (know what I mean)

They are mostly working with Profoto and Bron's simply because they last and lasts. One guys has Profoto that is almost 25 years old and they have seen daily action since purchase (except the yearly six weeks holiday when the studio is closed)

And also that you can make do with cheaper equipment but one thing that becomes very expensive when you work with very high budget jobs is the potential failure of equipment and having people with these kind of hourly rates hanging around waiting for an exchange of a flash kit might show to be to costly for your own future in the business

Thank you very much for your tips, unfortunatly I will not travel around in spain. I am only visting friends in Barcelona so Madrid is this time out of the scedule.

I will surely check out the ones at the Rambla and this Eurosimer as well I also heard about some place called Casanova in Barcelona, does anybody know anything about them?

Thank you very much for your help.

Karl

Hi everybody

I am taking of to Barcelona for just a few days and I am living in

Iceland.

The thing is that there are really no second hand camera shops here

up north and I was wondering if anybody knew of any pro second hand

shops in Barcelona.

I am looking for parts both for my RZ and my Sinar Norma so I

difinatly need a pro shop not a "normal" camera shop and also one

that does second hand gear.

Is there anyone who could help me out with some local knowledge

please.

Karl

Thanks.

I know about these people but unfortunatly they have only stuff for the 645 and nothing to the RZ.

Karl

Hi everybody

My question concerns any stuff that is made for the RZ, I have an old

RZ 1 and some lenses and stuff.

I have from some different web browsing found a number of makers for

everything from russian tilt/shift lenses for the RB and 645 and some

other asian third party makers for things like grips and other stuff

also for RB and 645 but there is very little for the RZ.

Does anybody know of someone who does stuff for the RZ I am

particulary looking for grips and if there was a russian tilt/shift

lens for I would jump of joy.

If there is other stuff could you please let me know

Gratefull for any help

Karl

There are several applications that does more and faster and probably for free then you will fins that Photoshop 2 or even 5 will do as stated by several people here.

BUT if you are interested in the history of the application you could have alook at this link "www.designbyfire.com/pdfs/history_of_photoshop.pdf "

In addition I would like to add that 2 was the version I started using

since it came out when I started to do image work on a computer at the time. This is very telling about my age, is it not?

And I do remeber when 3 came around that I had no idee for a long time what I would use layers for, I could see no rel use for them to start with, well at least I have changed my opinion about that by now.

And when you have read this history of Photoshop then you can always take this quis on the the development of it "http://www.newrecruit.org/archives/2004/may/photoshopquiz"

Then you might go as nerdy as I am

Karl

I think and I also have talked to several proffesional photographers in all walks of styles, advertising, PJ, museum advertising etc etc etc and I do have the feeling that the same thing that happened to the web is about to develop in digicams.

In the beginning all said that this will change the world and in one aspect it did but it did not kill newspapers, print-advertising, newsletters or Tv and Radio. It shure has changed but not gone away.

I have had a prosumer digicam (Eos 10D) since it came out and I am very happy with it.

But I am discovering now that I do use it only in those specific cases where it suits and in the other cases the RZ or the Sinar comes out, or even the bessa L with sharp little wideangle lenses on.

The way I use it today is as I use neg-color for when I want the conviniance of a printneg with the latitude OR when I use the Velvia for the saturated slide etc etc etc.

It is now more down to a choice of media that will suite for the job and not an answer to everything as was expressed in the beginning and still is by some.

It is like saying that a websized .jpg will work for all uses of a photograph, and that is not just about quality but more of the comparizing of a high res .psd with adjustment layers and alpha masks etc etc etc

The fact that the daily news photographer has changed their way of working monumentaly has had an enormous effect on the newspapers and they are also some of the greatest consumers of cameras, not to many other photographers are maybe doing a 500 to a 1000 exposures per day and that does take its tool on the cameras.

Ok to end of. What I am trying to say is that I think that digital photography will sink in to it's role in photography and mature and then you will find that some areas will be gone/changed and the other ones will continue to be the tool of the creative mind as well as the digital camera will be.

Despite (or because of) the great response I did get on my previous

question regarding this (original question follows below)

I was wondering if there is any source for more of these kind of hard

(L)earned tricks and private little secrets about how to create and

fake effects in the studio. Some book or something similar (except

handing over hard earned cash to an old sly studio pro who's got all

the old tricks up theres back pocket.

Great if you guys could help me out (again).

Karl

"Although strictly this does not belong in this category but lack of

a studio tips and tricks forum I post it here. I was curios about

different liquids that you can use on say bottles or soda cans to

simulate mist, droplets and similar. Also any specific teckniques

regarding food photography to intensify the feeling of freshness and

cold of products (or heat and sizzlingnes, if that word at all

exists) I have gone through an assortment of oil and sugar syrups to

test but the REAL feeling escapes me most of the time, of course very

much of this is light but some of it is texture and feel of the

liquid/formula used. Since I am fairly ok in a studio normaly but

mostly with people and in the cases of still life mostly metal

materials this is something I lack the experience in and I was

wondering if any one could shed some light for me in this area.

Gratefull for any response Karl"

Brooks and Garry

THANKS a million

You guys rock, this is exactly the information I was looking for and I am so gratefull for this. The acrylic icecubes I was aware of before, I acctually used them once a hundred years ago.

Thanks for the tip regarding icecream as well although I am not looking to "fake" food only make it more appetizing under the studio lights and give me more then seconds to shoot the stuff.

B.T.W. What is Kitchen Bouquet I am in Iceland and we do not have all those american and for that sake european food products always, are you talking about gravy color like caramelised suger as food coloring or is this another product.

Thank you again for your kind help

Karl

Although strictly this does not belong in this category but lack of a

studio tips and tricks forum I post it here.

I was curios about different liquids that you can use on say bottles

or soda cans to simulate mist, droplets and similar.

Also any specific teckniques regarding food photography to intensify

the feeling of freshness and cold of products (or heat and

sizzlingnes, if that word at all exists)

I have gone through an assortment of oil and sugar syrups to test but

the REAL feeling escapes me most of the time, of course very much of

this is light but some of it is texture and feel of the

liquid/formula used.

Since I am fairly ok in a studio normaly but mostly with people and

in the cases of still life mostly metal materials this is something I

lack the experience in and I was wondering if any one could shed some

light for me in this area.

Gratefull for any response

Karl

Are you shooting raw or jpg, this makes all the difference since the raw takes it all and depending if you use Capture One or Photoshop 7/CS to convert the image it is all up to you to alter the color at the post process stage.

The auto setting at the 10D is a well known trouble maker regarding the white balance and you should really use the daylight/tungsten or any of the other settings if they corresponds to your shooting cirkumstances.

The best is always the custom setting and then after you make one exposure at someting white and then use that to create a custom white balance don't forget to set the WB to custom white balance, a three step procedure and dont do only the two first like I once did when I had to shoot on jpg and forgot the last step, result, not very nice skintones.

If you shoot with studio strobes start at the flash setting or use the kelvin scale if youre heads are a little bit of 6500 k, they tend to go warmer the older they get. If you are using tungstens or just the old kitchen light start of at 32-3500 k.

No color portrait has been hurt by being a little bit warm for the skintones so dont be worried to go a little below your target.

That should start you off on the WB settings but do avoid auto especially indoors, that can really cause problems.

Good Luck

Karl

I would acctually like to agree with Jaques Bagios regarding that comment. You really need to feel VERY comfortable with strobe/tungsten/hmi lights before you take on that kind of work and in many cases you also work with larger formats as well although digital is making its mark also in this fields.

Shooting interior/exterior architectural shoots might look simple but please do give it a real try before you spend some money on this kind of equipment.

In general otherwise if you do need lights for these kind of stuff you will probably need fairly powerfull lights (large rooms/big depth of field = plenty of juice in your strobes) Look at (http://www.profoto.com/product.php?catId=101&productId=265) for light sources that will be able to produce a natural looking light in rooms and environment where you need to control the light.

This is simply one form (and brand)of lights for this kind of light that you might need for these kind of shoots.

And of course there is also as previously stated depending of your style you might only shoot with available light but please do remember that is acctually much more difficult to get good results compared when you have some control of the situation.

There is a story of a photographer that had to go back to a curch for 7 years before the light got right again as the first time he went in there and did not bring he's camera.

Best of luck with it and do remember that although some might disagree with me that when you shoot architecture you have to create the image and not shoot it as you might do in a more photojournalistic way

I would first like to second what Garry said in the first reply "proffesionalism"

Secondly I would like to add that there is many ways to skin a cat(a saying in my language, might not translate) but it means that there is as many ways to do one off these shoots as there are photographers doing them. And even if you might find many handy tips in books but there is a reason why one of these shoots costs a LOT of money and that has to do with several very experienced people (photographers, artdirectors, assistants etc etc etc) and some professional equipment and usually a decently large slide film in the end. Someone said that there was very good ad shoots done 30 years ago and you would be hard up to get a advertising company 30 years ago on a high profile ad shoot like the ones you are talking about that would accept anything below a 5x4 slide and really wanting a 10x8.

I would recomend you to try to find a proffesional advertising photographer in your area and get on the set as a coffe boy just to pick up some ideas what a production like this is really about.

There is only so much you can learn in books and so much more from acctually doing it.

In addition I would like to add that there has been many good ideas promoted here and the scrim above the car is one way of controling the light for the shoot and that is really the BIG secret of a succesful shoot of this kind, control and previsualisation, to know what you want(, and preferably how to acchive it ;-) )

Last but not least sorry for my poor grammar and spelling, english is not my first language and I have no spellcheck on this machine.

Karl