stevensimages

Mine is just three pages of readable 12 point type. There are various clauses about cheerful cooperation, pre-wedding consultation, number of proofs and enlargements to be provided, the rules of the wedding venue, etc., but all of that matters not in comparison to the one clause that does matter. The clause limiting my liability to the amount of money paid me. In other words, if photos don't turn out the way they want, even if it is totally my fault, I am not liable in a monetary way for their emotional pain and suffering, but I will, at most, give them all their money back.

Also, the synch cord I refer to is to my bracket mounted TTL flash, not to off camera, manually set lights.

Erik,

 

I'mn sorry I confused the issue. Naturally, it's not a problem when I'm metering manually, which is what I do about 60-70% of the time. But the problem is with the TTL flash metering for those fast moving situations when hand metering is less practical and I switch over to program.

Lately, I've been having a problem with the flash metering on my

F100. For the first year at least, the flash metering was spookily

dead on. Really, really good. I even touted it loudly in forums like

this.

Now, I'm getting underexposures by one to 2.5 stops, especially at

distances over 15 feet.

Let me lay out what the problem isn't, first. This is with an SB80DX

and a backup flash, as well as with several different lenses, so I'm

reasonably sure that the problem is with the camera. I know that the

SB80DX is good for distances well beyond those giving me problems,

even at f5.6, which is the default f-stop for program shooting. I am

reasonably sure that it isn't my flash sych cord, because I got a

new one and the problem persists.

It isn't a terrible problem, because I usually hand meter and shoot

manual, but in certain situations, I need to be able to rely on the

camera's metering, which used to be, ironically, so reliable.

Anyone who can point out any potential problems I may be overlooking

would be greatly appreciated.

I won't speculate about the accuracy of the initial post's source, but as far as the whole matter of "10 MP is just not enough," that sort of statement is clear evidence of being "full of it."

 

First off, megapixels are not the only thing that matters. Unless you routinely enlarge above 16X20, or are shooting for stock agencies, which have very high resolution standards, 6 megapixels is plenty, provided you have good glass and are exposing correctly. Remember, just three or four years ago, no one was over 10 MP, except extremely high end medium format digi-backs. When the Kodak DCS came out at 14 MP, did everyone flock to buy one? NO, because features and functionality sometimes matter more than raw MP power.

 

Just because 12 MP cameras are now available does not mean that they are absolutely necessary. Lots of working pros are shooting sports, weddings, portraits, etc. with the D1X, D100, D2H, etc. which are all less than 6.5 MP, with fantastic results, I might add. In any event, if you don't have good glass, all the MP in the world won't help.

I've been asked to do the same thing, by some friends who knew that I was a neophyte pro, but wanted a more seasoned professional for their daughter's very elaborate (and expensive) wedding. The pro they chose was a friend of mine. I let her know what I was doing, and I stayed as far away as possible from her and her assistant at all times. Further, I did not bring my photos to the family until after they had received their pro's package and ordered their reprints. I told the hired pro this as well, so that she did not need to worry about my shots interfering with her reprint sales.

 

When all was said and done, the pro (with whom I am still friends, and who I occasionally assist) delivered a set of exquisite photographs that would have satisfied just about any client. And when I brought a small album as a post wedding gift, they were thrilled with my shots.

 

Why? Because, as they said, "Her (the hired pro's)pictures were fantastic, but so were yours, and it seems like you got all the shots that she missed." So, if handled delicately and with respect for the position of the hired pro, it can be a win-win situation for everyone. If a pro has a problem with someone who does what I did, that pro probably has a personal ego problem, and would never get a reccomendation from me.

The whole advice thing springs from the fact that people are a bit jealous of the photographer, which, despite being a really grueling and sometimes thankless job, is at least a little bit glamorous. As a photographer and a musician, I get this sort of thing in both circumstances.

 

As the photographer, you are sort of the center of attention when setting up your shots, you have (most of us, anyway) an impressive collection of technology in your hands, and an expertise that is a bit of a mystery to most of the guests. It's kind of glamorous, to a lot of people. SO, there is a certain type of person who hates to admit (even to themselves) that someone else knows more than they do about anything. So, they give advice.

 

For me, it just goes into the category of "things I can't change about people who I'll probably never see again." That makes it easier to smile and say, "thanks", perhaps followed by a (very) brief explanation of why I am doing things the way I have chosen to do them.

Steve has the right idea. It really is about reading the group dynamic. And it can be excruciating when you've got a group of stiffs, but you'll get through it. The thing is, you need to have, not one thing that you say to get people to smile, but a whole bunch of things. One for each separate occasion.

One thing. Even when they are a loose and fun group, any making fun (other than the lightest of possible teasing) of the group is usually a bad idea. Only one person has to take you the worng way and get their feelings hurt to mess up the groove of the session.

It helps if you are naturally funny. If you're not a natural comedian, then effervescent and brilliantly cheerful works almost as well. The key is to be effervescent and brilliantly cheerful when you feel like crap.

Also, don't say "crap." Profanity, even the mildest, is a very bad idea. I'm sure you already know that it would be horribly unprofessional to use bad language, but, if you're like me (sometimes a potty mouth) it can be a chore to remember to keep it clean.

Anyway, it's a lot like acting. Find the character that you think will work for a group and stay in character the whole time.

Nadine is correct. Please ignore anyone who tell you to set fill flash at a higher setting than the ambient light. It doesn't matter whether they are in shade or direct sunlight. Outdoor flash should only be to fill in shadows subtly. Otherwise, you lose the natural quality of the outdoor light and you may as well shoot everything indoors. Also, if you don't have a meter, get one. Incident readings are much more valuable than reflected in most cases. A little Polaris will cost you a bit over a hundred dollars and will so everything you need to do in almost any normal situation.

It is times like these that I am happy that I have a punctuality and cheerful cooperation clause that gives me some legal basis to stand on in case the late folks were to object to a low shot count.

Fortunately, the weddings I've had where I felt rushed because of lateness of teh wedding and wedding party, they clients were blessedly very happy with their photographs, and I was left breathing a sigh of relief, feeling like I'd just dodged a bullet.

Like someone said upthread, there is a reason for the existence of top of the line, but a smart photographer knows what that difference is, and what it's worth. I shoot with a Nikon F100 and a D100. Is a F5 (or the new F6) a better camera than an F100? All other things being equal, yes it is, but not to the point that it becomes worth the price, which is nearly double. When I made my decision, three things helped me choose a the less expensive, but still completely professional quality F100.

1) Price. Plain and simple.

2) Features that I would use. Although there is a slightly faster film advance and focus technology, as well as a slightly superior in camera meter on the F5 and F6, the differences are subtle and you pay extra for several bells and whistles that I would never use. Another factor is that I don't use the in camera meter all that much, anymore, preferring to hand meter most of my shots. Additionally, part of the higher price for the top of the line cameras is in their extremely rugged construction, which would matter if I were shooting while hiking over mountains and streams or sailing the seven seas for National Geographic, but are less important when shooting in a church or hotel ballroom.

3) Ease of use. the aforementioned bells and whistles make the F5 & F6 less user friendly than the F100 when adjustments need to be made on the fly.

 

Most of those same arguements apply equally to the digital side with the D100 stacking up against a D2H or a D2X, except that the price differential is even steeper between the middle and top end.

 

So, consider what you need, what you want and what the camera offers, rather than plunking down top dollar just on principle. However, lenses are another matter entirely. Good glass matters and it doesn't come cheap.

Just one more person here to say that I have zero problems with my Alien Bees, whcih are the first studio lights I've ever purchased. Honestly, the only reason I can think of to get something more expensive is if I need more power. The White Lightnings and ABs are rated using the same standards, but the ABs only go up to 1600s. The White Lightnings have a 3200WS model.

Otherwise, I just can't imagine having any use for any features not available on the ABs. I meter the lights, I shoot a series of photos and when I get my negs back from the lab, they have plus or minus exposure values printed on the negative sleeves. Consistent to within a third of a stop, which is more than sufficient for anything I will ever do as a photographer. Anyone who does normal wedding and portraiture work who kvetches about ABs (calls them cheap, or "not really pro equipment)is just being an equipment snob.

Great lights, reasonable price.

Yeah, I'm down with beating thieves. I'm betting if they got their heads banged a bit, they might reconsider their career choices. :o)

Someone mentioned that their pro lab was cheap because of the volume they do. Mine is definitely not cheap. Their work is superb, but proofing film is roughly triple what I would pay at a Costco or Walmart (not that I would ever trust my pro work to them). I am curious. What do you guys pay for the labs that do good work? And when I say good work, I mean they use quality paper, they pull you out of the fire if you have a poorly exposed shot (don't lie, it happens to all of us at least once in a while), they color correct for good skin tones and they have roll and frame numbers clearly printed on the back.

Nicola gets it! Derek, not so much! :o)

 

Derek, I'm happy for you that shooting is a stress free experience, and while I would never say or imply that you don't care about your clients' reactions to your work, I do feel that when I get stressed, it is because I am seriously concerned about doing the best possible job for my clients, and up to a point, a little nervousness is good for the creative energy. But don't get the idea that I am a hyperserious type on the job. The clients and guests never know that I am stressed, because during the formals, I'm constantly joking, cajoling, directing, adjusting and firing away. Then, after the formals, I'm a ghost on the sidelines.

Thanks to everyone for their responses. Good points were made by all. Actually, EJ, you convinced me not to put the policy as I stated it in writing for the customer. The policy will still exist in my head, basically that, like Mark, I would prefer to shoot for about 30 minutes max, which basically puts us at about a 15 pose limit. Then, if they want more, we can discuss the effects of a really long list. I'm still inclined to draw a firm line if they aren't willing to allow sufficient time to cover their list properly.

Fortunately, my contract already covers me in case photos are missed due to failures of punctuality or cooperation on the part of the wedding party and other photographees.

 

Again, thanks for your input, everybody! :o)

" . . .we let the B&G decide how many they would like, and give them a guidline as to how much time it will take. We average around 30 different groupings."

 

You hit the nail on the head about giving them a guideline. Communication is the heart of any successful relationship, whether it's with your spouse or a customer. But. What do you do when they want 30 groupings in a time frame that doesn't realistically allow it?

That is true, the customer's opinion is important, but most of the time, they do not have (and cannot have) 1.5 hours built into the schedule for formals. If I can get them to schedule that much time, then it's fine. That gives you an average of just over 2 minutes per pose, which, in my experience is just enough to get folks in place and sqeeze off 3 or 4 frames.

So, how do you handle it when they want to do a long list of photos between the wedding and the reception, and they don't want to keep the guests waiting too long at the reception, so they want to schedule no more than 30 minutes?

Don't misunderstand me, by the way. If a couple gives me a list of 50 shots, I'm not going to just say "No way, forget it!" I'm going to let them know that X number of photos will take Y minutes to shoot and if they only have Y-45 minutes, we're going to need to trim something somewhere. I do think that having a set policy and telling couples up front what that policy is, is the best way to go.

I know that some photographers sem to give their clients a list of dos and don'ts a mile long and expect the customer to conform to them. I'm not like that, but I do think that some guidelines make sense and it's more about telling the customer what they can realistically expect than about giving them a laundry list of stuff that I don't or won't do.

I do believe that the customer is the most important thing, but sometimes, the best thing you can do for a customer is to tell them that perhaps another photographer would be more suited to their needs. I mean what do you do if you're a PJ type shooter and a customer says, "your pictures are great, but at my wedding, I don't want all these shots of people not looking at the camera. It's like they're not even posed at all!" I feel the same way about people who want 50 plus formals and they only have 45 minutes to do it.

So, this is going to be a policy of mine, and I'm curious if others have gone about this in a particular way that is customer friendly.

I'm curious how other photographers handle the question of how many

wedding day formals is too many. I have been very flexible about this

up until now, but I've had two weddings in a row that wanted well

over 30 different group shots. Fortunately, I tend to work fairly

quickly, but I find that having that many poses, some of which

include 10 or even 20 people, end up creating a time crunch.

That time crunch in turn makes everybody more tense, and increases

the chances of my making a mistake with exposure values, not to

mention that small details (bra straps showing, ties that need

straightening, jackets that bunch up unattractively, etc.) tend to

get overlooked in the rush. This ratchets up my stress level

immensely.

Prior to now, I have been giving clients a list of typical shots and

I encourage them to give me a list of groups or other shots (the

rings, the cake, the bouquets, etc.) that they want to make sure that

I get.

As far as all the reception shots, there's no problem, but with the

formal poses, like I said, it becomes problematic when they want too

many different combinations and poses. Thus, I am seriously

considering putting a hard limit on how many formals I'm willing to

do.

I'm primarily a PJ style shooter, but I understand that formals are

also important to most couples and I take the quality of those

formals very seriously.

SO, do any of the rest of you put hard limits on the number of posed

formals you're willing to do and how do you extablish this with your

clients so there is no misunderstanding or disappointment on their

part?

It's like, hey, you're goth, that's really cool! Oh wait. It's 2005!

I just use humor constantly. That way, even if they're not big smilers, they at least have a pleasantly amused expression. That is, if I'm on my game.

I'm having a hard time thinking of particular lines, because I'm constantly talking and sometimes it's a bit stream of consciousness, but I do often ask things like, "Could I get the ugly bridesmaids, oh, sorry, groomsmen, to lean in a bit and turn your chin this way."

General flattery is also good. For instance, I sometimes remind people that the reason I am such a good photographer is that I have a strict policy that I don't take pictures of ugly people. This blends humor,flattery and self promotion in one fell swoop.

It can be tricky, because no matter how funny you are (and, believe me, I'm funny) there will always be humorless people, or, people who just don't have the same sort of sense of humor you do. Then, you have to sense that vibe and try a more traditional approach. It also helps to work fast, because impatience is the biggest smile killer I can think of.

One other thing, you really have to pay attention and suss out the sort of people you are shooting in terms of what they might perceive as being "in bad taste." Naturally, you would never want to do things that are unprofessional, or genuinely in bad taste (no fart jokes) but if the folks seem to be particularly conservative, you have to really watch yourself. For instance, if a crowd is very religious, they might be put off by jokes about drinking, for instance, while a looser crowd may respond very positively to those sorts of comments. It's all about paying attention and going with what works.

I thought these statements could stand to be reiterated. Well said, gentlemen.

 

<p><i>Marc Williams - "So, I get invited to a lavish party where emotions run the gamut, am paid to do what I used to do for free anyway. Get to buy cool gear that I couldn't justify previously. Get to share a milestone day with a young couple just starting out. Get to exercise and expand my creative horizons on a regular basis. So what's not to like?" </p>

<p>David Duffy - "Taking pictures that will last a lifetime and put a smile on my client's face every time they glance at it is a priceless feeling."</p>

<p>Ben Rubenstein - "There is something about getting the phone call after giving the pictures and hearing how delighted the couple/family are with your pictures, you really feel that you are getting job satisfaction!" </i></p>

 

<p>I agree wholeheartedly with all those statements. Additionally, I enjoy the creative challenge of finding the better shot, the original pose, the perfect expression, the touching moment, that the subject never knew you caught on film (or chip) until the moment when their jaw drops and they overflow with smiles. And, getting paid for it all is a blessing. </p>

I think Brooks is absolutely right that flash is perceived as a mark of a high end photographer. To me, that's the deciding factor. As it stands, I am not (yet :o)) a high end photographer, so if I use flash at all, it will be on the entry page only. But when I see it, I do get the impression, "hey, here's someone who is on the higher end of the business." That doesn't mean that an html site makes me think "low rent." An elegant, well designed site (and, hopefully, some great photos) will speak for itself in any format.

 

Thanks to everyone who contributed opinions. I appreciate the input and it's clear to me that there are some sharp individuals around here with valuable insights. Thanks again!

Mark and Bruce make excellent points. Might I ask your favorite souce for used equipment. We have a couple of good local camera shops here in Houston that sell lots of used gear, but their prices are not encouraging. I've caught them trying to sell used equipment (albeit in excellent condition) for prices higher than for the same models brand new from Tri-State, B & H or other online of mail order retailers.

I guess what I'm curious about is whether you prefer working with dealers or going through the ever popular ebay.

Also, thanks, Marc, for the compliment on my wife (terrible photo BTW, the only one I had in digital form on the computer I was on). Seriously, half the reason I'm pursuing the photography on the side is to buy her more jewelry. Plus, I get an excellent portfolio model into the bargain.

Can some of you guys have a chat with my wife? I see the logic of what you're saying, but she's having touble with me buying lenses instead of anniversary jewelry. :o)