jimitoucan

<p>Thanks, I just save $1400! Thought it might be a typo as there was no mention of a macro feature. Here's where I found it: http://www.nikonusa.com/en/Nikon-Products/Product/Camera-Lenses/2202/AF-S-NIKKOR-70-200mm-f%252F4G-ED-VR.html#tab-ProductDetail-ProductTabs-TechSpecs</p>

<p>This post comes at an opportune time. I am looking at the new Nikon 70-200mm f4 and comparing it to the 70-200mm f2.8. The 2.8 has a MRR of .25x while the f4 is 1.36x. Does this mean the f4 focuses much closer resulting in an almost macro lens? Does the .25x mean 1/4 life size? and 1.36x mean larger than life size?<br>

On FX of course.</p>

 

<p>I'm sorry, I just picked myself up off the floor with tears in my eyes from laughter. No disrespect intended but this is the funniest thread I've read in a long time. I'm more confused about focal length, field of view, and crop now then I was about the circle of confusion when I was in college. And talk about the circle of confusion...I want in.</p>

<p>Here's a simple, to me, explanation...found in most manuals of DX cameras. Draw a rectangle the size of your MF sensor of which the lens you want to use came from. Sounds like 44x33mm? Now draw another rectangle inside that one the size of your FX DSLR 36x24 or whatever, now draw another rectangle inside that one the size of your DX format, 24x16 approx. The image you would get with MF camera doesn't change when you put the lens on the FX or DX body. You just 'crop' out some of the image area. So the bird in flight is going to be the same size, you've just cropped out some of the sky and it appears bigger.</p>

<p>If you have a D700 or D800/E (or D3/4) you can switch from FX to DX on the fly. Your 300mm lens doesn't change, you just crop out some of the image when switching to DX mode, and some of the mps. Instead of 36mp on the D800/E in FX you have 15mp in DX. Focal length is the same, image size is smaller, subject appears larger. or vice versa.</p>

<p>Okay, so the 300mm on the MF is still a 300mm but compared to 35mm it has an effective focal length somewhat shorter. You do the math. That's why a 50mm on a 35mm body is considered 'normal' focal length and on a MF (2.25x2.25) 80mm is considered normal.</p>

<p>The industry has chosen to use 35mm format as the 'standard' to which all other sizes and formats are measured. Why? I'm guessing because more people have shot with 35mm than any other format. Even when marketing point and shoot cameras they give 35mm equivalent focal lengths. When's the last time you actually 'dialed' a phone? Old habits die hard. I'm still laughing.</p>

<p>Oh yea, if you want to know what the EFFECTIVE focal length of any lens is on any camera you have to have a base line. 35mm? Then do the math or read the manual.</p>

<p>Joseph, I took a thumb drive to show the side by side on the projector. PC couldn't read it. But as we were looking at other images I can tell you that the detail just isn't enough to see the difference on the projected image.</p>

<p>Gerard, this is my first video capable DSLR and one of the reasons I needed it. It depends on what you shoot. I shot some video in nature and it is awesome. But I don't think it is any better than the nonE. If you do interviews like many multi-media photogs I would not get the E. Moire' may be minimal so far from what I've seen (but I have seen it) but as you said, once it's in video...</p>

<p>No, digital projectors, even the expensive ones with a resolution of 1920x1080 are basically the same as a computer monitor with a 1920x1080 resolution, like the one I'm looking at right now. <br>

I doubt very much that you would see much of a difference between the E and nonE on a projected image. I will be projecting on an 8 foot screen tonight. I'll take my Emerald Bay samples with me and take a look and report back.</p>

<p>After shooting the E for a little over a week (about 1000 images) and only having the D800 for 3 days, (150 images shot specifically for comparison) I will stick to my first conclusion. Viewing on a monitor directly and viewing anything on the web, is not valid for comparison purposes. You have to make prints, big prints. You will be hard pressed to see any difference in a print smaller than 20x30. Especially at normal viewing distances. Now, take the print to 40x60 get up close, I mean 8x10 print size viewing close, and the difference is apparent, but not much. And there's the rub. That 'not much' is subjective. For some pros it may be huge for their needs. For some enthusiasts it might not be noticeable at all. If you haven't seen my blog you can read more of my results here: http://stamates.blogspot.com/2012/04/face-time-with-d800e.html</p>

<p>Get the nonE and save 300 bucks and the worry of moire' or get the E if you crop really small portions of your image and make 16x20 prints OR you display huge prints(40x60), murals, or your images are used on billboards, and you don't do weddings, people outside of a controlled studio setting, or video with clothed people. </p>

<p>Moire' also seems to crop up in dark shadows that have been lightened in post. It shows up in gray subjects like rocks, tree limbs without bark, gray bird feathers (in shade) etc.</p>

<p>It seems for the most part, I'm guilty here too, that we get consumed with the illusion and not the reality. Nikon says the E is SLIGHTLY sharper because they removed (modified) the OLPF. We don't believe SLIGHTLY and expound it to be SUBSTANTIALLY. Not because it is but because we want it to be. We want to have the SHARPEST! I want my camera to be better than your camera. Unfortunately a crappy image shot with a D800E is still a crappy image and I have images to prove it!</p>

<p>Thanks Steve and others for all this info. I have tried NX2, think a mentioned that to you, just can't seem to break the LR habit. Lots to digest here and on your blog. I have some more to report too at my blog http://stamates.blogspot.com/<br>

I've been shooting lots and figuring out which settings are working for me. I'm loving the fact that I can push the fn button and switch to DX for instant 15mp crop. I wish Nikon would have given us a 12x36mm crop size. 18mp Panorama would be sweeeeet. </p>

<p>Sorry I haven't responded sooner. My next report is live at http://stamates.blogspot.com/. But I'm still shooting and am getting some surprising results vis a vis moire'.<br>

The f5 v f5.6 is operator error but the shutter speed should have compensated. The E seems to shoot darker about 1/3 stop in almost all side by side shots, even when shutter speed and aperture are exact. Not sure why. I also noticed, and that's why I did prints, that the prints are more closely matched than what goes up on the web especially in color balance. Why they are different after posting I don't know. Also Mike, in my hand there is no noise in either print. Again, a web issue? Remember, the tea house is cut from a 40x60 print! That's huge and the web images are only 72dpi.</p>

<p>I did shoot a screen door both E and nonE had moire' but the E was moire' (humor) pronounced.</p>

<p>One thing I am still testing and really don't want to give it away yet is moire' showing up in dark areas on stuff it shouldn't show up on. Is it noise? I don't know that either. Stay tuned...</p>

<p>Please keep in mind, I'm not an equipment tester, I just play one on TV... </p>

 

<p>Results of my tests are now started on my blog. I will follow up with more as I have time. Take a look, let me know what you think. </p>

<p>See it here: http://stamates.blogspot.com/2012/04/d800-or-d800e-heres-my-results.html</p>

<p>Thanks, Jim</p>

 

<p>Sneak Peak on my testing. I've really tried to get some tight bird shots but they are not cooperating this weekend. I think they know I'm testing.<br>

I shot some geese and did not see moire'. But I also shot a robin in the shade. It was dark and I adj. exp. in LR4. You can see in first image moire' I increased the vibrance in the second image to accent the moire' so you can see it easier. I will be showing more images and writing more sensible on my blog in a few days. What an exhausting weekend doing the test shots.<br>

<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-a2VMbPMh-Is/T5TpiUFPVII/AAAAAAAAEP0/WMtUKqnjRtE/s868/_E8J0122.jpg" alt="" /><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LD6B6ECsWBo/T5TpiFWsu7I/AAAAAAAAEP0/EU0S3x3h4OU/s868/_E8J0122-2.jpg" alt="" width="868" height="808" /></p>

<p>Funny you should ask Shun

<p>Let me try this again: Feather detail that Steve took. </p><div></div>

<p>I just have to post this. Steve at Leo's Camera in Klamath Falls OR opening my D800E he took it out and shot with it. Damn you Steve!<br>

<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-65lyIIx_GL8/T5GBtK-Ln-I/AAAAAAAAENs/T7SwL3jZ0Us/s500/Its+Here%212.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="379" /></p>

<p>No problem.</p>

<p>Barry C, thanks for the initial tests. Mine will arrive Friday. I will spend the weekend doing several outdoor tests and report next week. (I will be selling the one I don't keep) <br /> It is really hard to see difference in the book shots. I opened them in LR but the files are small. Talking with a colleague who got hers a couple of days ago, she is keeping the D800E and basically said there isn't much difference unless you're printing 30 inches or larger. That's what she does. Oh yea, she also shoots medium format digital and says the D800/E is about 25% less in image quality, but she says it is much easier to shoot except she can close down to f22 with her MF and about f11 with her Nikons per DoF. Her opinions of course, nothing scientific.</p>

<p>Again, each shooter needs to decide on their needs which one is best for them. I don't shoot books. Do I need to put a smiley here?</p>

<p>One thing I've read is angle of camera and distance to the subject with texture can accentuate or diminish moire' so trying to get it on purpose may take some effort. If you can tether you could see results as you shoot and move the camera each time. Just a thought.</p>

<p>You are shooting raw? </p>

<p>Thanks Barry, I'm glad someone got my humor. Chillax Zack, I wasn't responding to you other than taking a line from Groucho. I was responding to the the op and why NPS members get treated special, if you can call 6 weeks to get my lens fixed special.</p>

<p>I am a graduate of a community college, no, never went to a University, and I don't have kids but if I did they wouldn't be photographers because I'd have to support them until they where 40! More humor here in case someone missed it.</p>

<p>By the way, my major was photography and it was not fine art. City College of San Francisco had the best 2 year photography program in the country when I attended in the late sixties. When you got your AA you were ready for a position in commercial photography.<br>

To wrap this up...a photographer and a giraffe walk into a bar... </p>

<p>Okay, a couple of things. First, I would never brag about being a member to any group. I don't want anyone to think I'm special, I'm not. Not anymore than anyone else, and they aren't any more special than me.</p>

<p>But let's put the shoe on the other foot. What if you are a hard working professional and a new tool comes out that is going to help you make a better living so you can send your kids to college. You are having a hard time justifying the cost but, alas, you make the decision to get the new tool. But they're backordered. Then you see the guy down the street has one that he uses on the weekend for his hobby. You lose the next job to your competitor because he has the better tool. Your kids go to community college, marry down, and you will never be able to retire.</p>

<p>Hi All, Haven't posted in a while but I wanted to chime in. My D800 and D800E are in transit. I will most likely have them next weekend at which point I will be doing some 'real world' testing to see the difference in detail and resolution at it pertains to landscapes and wildlife including birds. <br>

I have 3 questions that I will be attempting to address between the E and non-E:<br>

How much sharper and how much more detail is the E compared to the non-E<br>

Will it be noticible in prints and what size print will it show up in?<br>

How much moire' occurs in nature images including feathers and fur?<br>

Then I will attempt to make a few images that will produce moire' and report which of the 3 most used software does the best job and is easiest to use, Lightroom 4, PS CS6 Beta (which actually uses Camera Raw for moire' removal) and NX2. I will be posting results on my blog among other places on the web and will let you know when that happens. (2 weeks)<br>

Barry, mine shipped ground, ugh, not sure why but it will arrive at my retailer Friday, D800 Wednesday. Let's compare notes.<br>

A whole new world awaits,<br>

I am doing this to determine which camera best suits my needs. Emphsis on 'my'. Every photograher has his/her own needs. </p>

<p>I also have another question that I hope to answer and maybe someone has done so in another post. Since all DSLRs have an OLPF that blurs the image slightly to prevent moire' input sharpening has been necessary on all images. Will input sharpening still be needed with the D800E? If so, as much? Will output sharpening also be required and will it be less? Will it be more likely to 'over sharpen' a D800E image and will we have a whole new learning curve to deal with? Hmm...</p>

<p>What type of boar? I use a tripod on hard bottom boats with long lenses up to 500mm. You need clam waters, even so the boat rocks but with a ball head or gimbal you should be fine. If at all possible have the guide turn off his engine when your near whales, most do. Then watch, wait, and pray.<br>

There is no telling where they'll breach. Sometimes it's once and sometimes they will keep breaching for 20 minutes or more. Hope for that. Then you can pick your position and shoot the heck out of 'em. <br>

A few tips if you're really into this. Hire your own guide and boat. Get something that is not to high as the pics look better from a lower angle. Don't hire a guide with a diesel. They're too slow. Be sure he'll do what you ask, like turn off engine, point the boat in a particular direction, back up, yep, I hired a guide that didn't have reverse!<br>

Remember...cabin and head, or something that will work.<br>

Good Luck<br>

Jim</p>

<p>All good advice. Let me add mine; chasing the light is not good, being chased by the light is wonderful. f8 and being there does not mean that f8 should be used, ever in my opinion, and being there has nothing to do with your physical presence, okay, maybe a little. It is more about the mental, emotional and spiritual state. Get 'in the rhythm' of your subject. Learn it, not by looking but by seeing, feeling, experiencing. Don't preconceive an image, it limits your potential. Go forth with the attitude 'what will I be presented today'? Sure, you've got to have an idea where you want to go, a destination, but when the urge, the inner voice, tells you to go left instead of right, follow it. <br>

Our biggest challenge is to shake off the false rhythms of our human made world and get into natural rhythms. <br>

Take the course with the pro. You don't need great weather to learn, just a great teacher.<br>

Have fun, Jim</p>

<p>I have a fancy window mount that I use occasionally, big, bulky, and heavy.<br>

What I've switched to is high density pipe insulation. About 2 bucks for 4 feet. It has a split so it fits on the window. I cut to just bigger than the width of the window opening so it fits snug and doesn't fall off. I can adjust the window for height, swing the foot for extra brace, and, as said above, always shut off the engine and strap my wife in her seat.</p>

<p>Well, you've have gotten some great responses and some of it may be hard to hear.<br>

To go forward I recommend the following:<br>

1 - Write a biz plan. No plan, no success. We plan our vacations but we forget to plan our future.<br>

2 - If you want to sell prints, do street shows. Not to make money, but as a test market to see what sells, and for how much. I know this isn't easy or cheap, but you will have more feedback in one weekend then you will in 2 years in a consigned gallery.<br>

3 - Find YOUR niche. You can shoot what sells or target clients that buy what you shoot.<br>

4 - If it's not working for you, see No. 1<br>

Here's a few more tips:<br>

You don't have to sell your art to justify its existence.<br>

You will have more fun making art than marketing and selling it.<br>

You'll probably make more money doing anything else and shooting for fun, then you will selling photography.<br>

Good luck and enjoy life.</p>

 

<p>Tim, You may have made the right move. However, it is good to see if there is another opportunity beside cash that may be available. My favorite saying is "Opportunity is not as rare as the ability to recognize it."<br>

Some non-profits do get all the food, venue, etc. for free or at a reduced rate. A little volunteerism goes a long way.</p>

<p> Before you say no to the next one, think about how it may help you in the future. Can you get other business by being there? Do they have something you need or can use for your business? Will they advertise for you for free with the rest of their promotions? Maybe a big display ad? Also, sometimes it is okay to just do it for the cause. People will remember you for contributing to the scholarships, if you let them know who you are. Don't do it if you are going to regret being there. But if you are happy and upbeat that you are helping make a difference in some unfortunates education, well, people respond to that and you get better known in your community. Sometime down the road you will be justly rewarded.<br>

You have to weigh all the options. Not every non-profit is worthy<br>

It's the commercial for profits I was referring to in my last answer. Hope this helps. There is a lot to learn and you will make mistakes as you go. You'll learn what works, what doesn't, and who and when to donate some time.<br>

Good luck.<br>

Jim</p>

<p>. </p>

<p>Negotiations are the name of the game. I have seldom not heard, we don't have a budget for photography. Of course they do. But their job is to get the image for as cheap as they can. Unfortunately, in this business the photographers just starting out don't know that so they give their image for a credit line. Useless! I have been published thousands of times and have never gotten a call because they saw one of my 'published' images. Never!</p>

<p>There will always be some photographer that will provide images cheaper. You have to know how and when to negotiate. When to hold em and when to fold em. I had a client tell me they could get an image from another local photographer for 1/5 the price, I said go ahead. A few weeks later they called back in a panic. They tried to enlarge the image for a trade show display and it wasn't sharp enough. They bought mine at my price.</p>

<p>These days there are just too many places to get images almost free. So yes, you have a big challenge. If your image is unique, and they are approaching you, there is a reason. They want your image! First thing is to ask, what is your budget? No matter what they say, their lying. There is always room to get a little, maybe a lot, more. Be tackful, explain how expensive it is to operate your offices, how you need to feed the family, what ever works, be nice, tell them you normally charge a lot more but for you...</p>

<p>It will take some time to get your spiel down, but then you will feel more comfortable negotiating and will start to see some money flowing your way. Probably not enough, though. </p>

<p>One more thing, I have a non-disclosure agreement as well, to protect my business practices, intellectual property rights, accounts, marketing strategies, etc.. I also have a clause that says anything they develop in the course of their employment is property of my business.</p>