john_sack

One of the comments in this thread suggested that photographers should take up a position and stick to it (i.e., that moving around may be more distracting than staying still). I like that thought.

I'm about to shoot two friends' wedding and have done lots of event photography (where I move around a lot). Where would experienced wedding shooters suggest is the right place to be at certain points in the ceremony? Obvious answer: "not in the way", but I'd like something a little more specific...:)

John

Katie,

That cord is rediculously short, isn't it? I assume somebody designed it so it would be only long enough to hand hold the flash in one hand extended from the body, and the camera in the other at one's eye, or something like that.

I have heard -- but not verified myself -- that the off shoe cord can be chained with another off-shoe cord to effectively double the length, and that it works fine.

Maybe go to a camera shop and try it out there before you pay for a second cord?

I'm within about a week of completing a project to convert my detached

garage (20 feet by 20 feet, 9-12 foot ceiling, northwest wall of

windows, skylight...) to a room that will be used for multiple

purposes including a photography studio and an art studio (and maybe

an exercise room).

Because there are multiple uses, and more than just me to please, I

don't see it as practical ('survivable' might be a better word :) to

paint the walls and ceiling a neutral grey color -- much less black!

-- and have window/door coverings in that color. The floor will be a

brown/tan color (the color of particle board), much like a gym floor

color.

For photography, I mostly want a place to learn and then do

portraiture. But with natural light as well as studio lights (there

is an 8' door space that will open to let in light as well).

It is time for me to pick the wall/ceiling colors. I know that they

need to be neutral so that the bounced light will be neutral. How do

you know, among the dozens of "white" colors that any paint store

carries, which ones are "neutral"? Is there any standard that paint

stores follow (like Pantone colors?).

Any advice and comment welcome and appreciated.

John

I know it is impolite to argue with people who are trying to provide information. But I want to be sure I understand what the problem is with fluorescents.

I raised the problem of flicker with the electrical contractor, and he said that the information about flicker at 60 cycles/sec is very very old, and that modern electronic ballasts flicker at 15,000 times/second. So he wondered how that could be a problem.

He said that using natural color bulbs (the 6280K and 94.5 CRI -- about the same color temp as my WhiteLightning strobes) would, he thought, deal with the color issue of mixing color temps.

So the question I'm left with is whether modern fluorescents that are color balanced to natural light are ok to use in a studio? I wouldn't use them in place of natural light.

The advantage to them is that they are cool and energy efficient and would be good for the other uses the studio will be put to. (The lights themselves are cheaper, and the fixtures are cheaper too than track lighting and such.)

Thanks to folks for giving me more info so I understand the problem I would be getting into.

John

Thanks for these responses. I had forgotten about the 60-120 cycles/sec!

When you suggest "halogen spots" what did you mean specifically?

I was imagining something like wall-mounted can lights that could be pointed up (to the ceiling and bounce) or down (for task lighting).

I am doing a garage conversion (20feet square garage, peaked ceiling)

and have a choice of installing flourescent lights in coves/chases on

two of the four walls, or installing incandescent lights that will be

pointed up and bounce off the ceiling.

I would have picked incandescent normally, but the flourescent will

provide more light, even light, lower temp, lower cost, etc. for other

uses the studio will have (exercise, painting).

Note that I am not talking about the flourescents being the main light

in a soft box.

I understand there are now daylight balanced high fidelity flourescent

bulbs (verilux makes tubes that are 6280K and 94.5 CRI:

http://www.toolsforwellness.com/40wat48fluor.html )

Are these good enough for use in the studio?

I would probably shoot natural light as much as I can, and I have

studio lights (WL x1600) as well. But sometimes I just know I'll

shoot with the flourescents on for convenience (of course with white

balance done in digital).

Any strong negatives or positives of either approach?

I use a similar setup a lot for location work (I am not a professional, but an avid amateur, so be warned). I use a 20D, and while I have White Lightning studio lights I will take my two 580ex flashes, and an umbrella with me on any one-person or two-person shoots (for larger groups, I feel like I need more power than the flashes will give me, unless they are just fill).

My simplest setup is to use one flash as the main light, usually on a stand and umbrella, and the other flash as fill mounted on the camera. The on-camera flash is the master and the main is the slave. I can set lighting ratios from the on-camera flash. ETTL gives pretty good exposures, but I always shoot RAW (because I find that the Canon flash exposure is under-exposed for my taste).

I start by looking for the natural light, and try to augment it with my main light. So if there is a window that has good light, I'll set up the main light there. Sometimes (like when I shoot in somebody's office), there just isn't room for that and so I'll bounce the flash into the corner or on the wall (if it is a white wall) where the window is.

45 degrees off the camera axis is a good place to start; if you are shooting multiple people you need to watch for one shadowing the other so I'll usually use 30 degrees or so in that case. As for the height of the light, the common rule seems to be to be sure you don't have it so high that you lose the catchlights in the eyes and/or get 'racoon eyes'. Generally, that means the main light should be no higher than I can reach it for a standing person (I'm short).

I am still experimenting with what mode to use. Manual seems to be what others say you should use. But if you want the window light to dominate then you are just using flash as fill so Av seems ok (like I say, I'm experimenting). If I'm moving around a lot with the camera (esp. when shooting kids), then I will use P, which makes sure the shutter speed doesn't drop below 1/60 and uses natural light as much as possible. I think this depends a lot of what you want as a look: dramatic lighting needs Manual mode, so you cut out the natural light.

Fresh batteries are pretty important to keep recycle time down.

Always glad to hear other ideas and critique!

John

I bought the WL radio slaves and found them very useful as I was learning lighting. Unlike the PocketWizard, the WL radio kit lets you adjust the lights without having the climb up and bend down to reach the light heads. That made it relatively easy to experiment, without getting physically exhausted.

On the other hand, I've found they need fresh batteries to work reliably. At least I think that is the source of unreliability I had this past weekend (I was using the lights to bounce off the ceiling of a church hall so I could take photos of kids playing fast moving games). My camera was 20-80 feet from any one of three lights, and sometimes 0 or 1 or 2 or 3 of the lights wouldn't fire. When I got the kit home, I found that everything was fine as long as I was 10-15 feet from the lights, but when I moved about 30-50 feet away they didn't reliably fire. (The manual says they will work 80-1600 feet depending on conditions; I would think an empty church hall would be 'good conditions'.) I am putting all new batteries in tonight to see if they do now fire reliably. If so, I will have learned my lesson.

The on/off switch on the receivers is bad design. If you put the receivers in your kit bag, the switch will slide from off to on at some point and the batteries will be dead when you return to them. The "low batt" light doesn't tell me that a battery is low.

All that griping aside, it is handy to have the ability to control light output remotely. I suspect if I were a professional who shot the same setup over and over again I'd not find that very useful because I'd just dial in what I need and be done with it. But I'm far from that!

I hope fresh batteries is all I need.

I finally bought a flash bracket, after learning (a beginner's amound

about) studio lighting and becoming more critical about light

direction and such.

My bracket allows me to mount the flash off center (i.e., to the left

or right of the center of the lens). I was thinking that, if the

flash is the main light, it would be good to mount it off center since

that would give a little more modeling (like a key light at 45

degrees, but this would be about 3 degrees!). But if the flash was

fill, it might not work out so well to have it off center (though it

might be acceptable if there was at least some ambient fill).

But if this were such a good idea, presumably everybody would do it,

and I can't think I've ever seen a pro shooting a wedding with a flash

off center on the bracket!

Comments/Advice?

John

Thanks for the suggestion on Marathon Press. Unfortuanately it looks like they are glossy brochures available in quantity of 100-500...:)

I spent about two hours pawing through google looking for examples of written materials. I found maybe a dozen examples. Most were about clothing (I think there are some "questions to think about so the photographer will know what you want out of your portrait", but I didn't see any examples of that), and most were for senior (student) portraits.

But here's what I found, for anybody else interested in this topic:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,285328,00.html

http://www.sadiesonline.com/faq.php

http://www.craftyeyephoto.com/dynamic/SessionGuide/SeniorSession.php

http://yourbestimagepid.com/photo_image_services.htm#preshoot

http://www.seniorphotog.com/wear.html

http://www.moonshotphoto.com/senior-pages/senior-planning-print.html

http://www.snappyphotoinc.com/index.asp?p=1620

http://www.snappyphotoinc.com/index.asp?p=1619

http://www.picturethiswindom.com/csseniorpage.htm

http://www.houseofphotography.com/Family%20Portrait%20Price%20List.pdf

http://www.yetiphoto.ca/portraits/session.php

http://www.dcmag.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/184/v/1/sp/332309698329342683348

http://www.jpclimbingguide.com/photo/seniors.htm

If others have suggestions/additions, please post. (I realize this is a bit OffTopic for lighting! So I posted this thread over in the portrait forum for followup.)

John

I spent about two hours pawing through google looking for examples of written materials. I found maybe a dozen examples. Most were about clothing (I think there are some "questions to think about so the photographer will know what you want out of your portrait", but I didn't see any examples of that), and most were for senior (student) portraits.

But here's what I found, for anybody else interested in this topic:

http://www.entrepreneur.com/article/0,4621,285328,00.html

http://www.sadiesonline.com/faq.php

http://www.craftyeyephoto.com/dynamic/SessionGuide/SeniorSession.php

http://yourbestimagepid.com/photo_image_services.htm#preshoot

http://www.seniorphotog.com/wear.html

http://www.moonshotphoto.com/senior-pages/senior-planning-print.html

http://www.snappyphotoinc.com/index.asp?p=1620

http://www.snappyphotoinc.com/index.asp?p=1619

http://www.picturethiswindom.com/csseniorpage.htm

http://www.houseofphotography.com/Family%20Portrait%20Price%20List.pdf

http://www.yetiphoto.ca/portraits/session.php

http://www.dcmag.co.uk/news/article/mps/UAN/184/v/1/sp/332309698329342683348

http://www.jpclimbingguide.com/photo/seniors.htm

If others have suggestions/additions, please post.

John

Ralph,

Thanks. This is the kind of thing I was looking for, though I was thinking more about family and group photos that weren't focused on a baby. But this is the kind of thing. I would have thought most pros who had been in business longer than a few years would have some written materials. (Is it that people don't have them online, or don't want to share them, perhaps? the latter seems unlikely, in that people seem to share all sorts of tips and such these days.)

Any other examples out there? This kind of thing is hard to search for on the net; I can't think of the search terms!

John

(I posted this in the lighting forum, and now realize that it may be

better posted over here. Apologies for duplication to those like me

who read both forums.)

A couple of the books on group and portrait photography I've read

have mentioned having some written materials to give to clients to

read/review before the shoot. These materials might include some

basic advice on how to dress, what to bring (if not in the home;

clothing, props of special significance), etc. But also some of the

questions that it seems would help the photographer if the clients

thought about before hand (e.g., what is the purpose of the

photograph(s), who are they for, will they be hung? where? what size

and orientation?; what are special things a person or group want to

convey in a portrait?; particular personal features to show or hide;

etc.). And of course practical things about how the session will

proceed so people know what to expect.

I would think these kinds of things might personalize/individualize

a session, taking it away from the generic stuff in a shopping mall

(but I'll bet even shopping-mall studios have tip sheets they give

clients before a shoot). Yet the contents of these materials would

be pretty common across photographers (though someone who

specializes in executive photography might have a few different

items than someone who specializes in child photography).

So are there some online examples of this kind of material, so I

don't have to develop my own?

I can't find any materials like the above online (I'll admit that it

is awfully hard to search for them; I went to a bunch of

photographers sites and found no materials). I thought I'd ask

whether people on this site have seen such material and can point me

to it, or would have something to share with others.

I'm trying to avoid developing such materials myself, since I am a

beginner, and also am doing this as a hobby to support local non-

profits.

And if these kinds of materials are useless (I'm just learning, so

something that seems like a good idea to me might be a waste of

time), let me know!

John

PS: here is the set of responses I received over in the lighting

forum:

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00AfEG

Suggestions were:

- a short questionnaire (sounds good! anybody have one to share?)

- in person meetings with wardrobe in tow

- a site that sells such materials pre-fab

http://www.marathonpress.com/ , but only in quantity of 100-500...

A couple of the books on group and portrait photography I've read

have mentioned having some written materials to give to clients to

read/review before the shoot. These materials might include some

basic advice on how to dress, what to bring (if not in the home;

clothing, props of special significance), etc. But also some of the

questions that it seems would help the photographer if the clients

thought about before hand (e.g., what is the purpose of the

photograph(s), who are they for, will they be hung? where? what size

and orientation?; what are special things a person or group want to

convey in a portrait?; particular personal features to show or hide;

etc.). And of course practical things about how the session will

proceed so people know what to expect.

I would think these kinds of things might personalize/individualize

a session, taking it away from the generic stuff in a shopping mall

(but I'll bet even shopping-mall studios have tip sheets they give

clients before a shoot). Yet the contents of these materials would

be pretty common across photographers (though someone who

specializes in executive photography might have a few different

items than someone who specializes in child photography).

So are there some online examples of this kind of material, so I

don't have to develop my own?

I can't find any materials like the above online (I'll admit that it

is awfully hard to search for them; I went to a bunch of

photographers sites and found no materials). I thought I'd ask

whether people on this site have seen such material and can point me

to it, or would have something to share with others.

And if these kinds of materials are useless (I'm just learning, so

something that seems like a good idea to me might be a waste of

time), let me know!

John

One of the responses to my question about how to substitute for a background light when you don't have enough lights suggested that you really don't need a hair light all the time.

A hair light is pretty subtle from what I've seen in the photos I've taken (I'm a beginner in portrait work), but it does seem remarkable in its effect. Almost like subtle stage lights.

Are there some general rules for when you need it and when you don't? (OK, no hair light for bald men. I've got that one!)

John

I'm just getting started in studio lighting (my 3-light White

Lightning set just arrived), and I wondered if there is a good low-

cost substitute for a background light for portrait work.

I am sure I won't be using all three lights (main, fill, hair) all

the time (especially since I don't even know I can handle one light

yet...:), but in cases where all three are in use, is there a simple

(i.e., inexpensive, controllable) way to put appropriate light on

the background?

I've seen small slaves in the store, and I assume these would be

good for that kind of purpose. Is that correct? How are they

controlled (in terms of intensity), are there some models that are

much better than others (and yet still inexpensive), or some

important features for this kind of use, etc.?

John

One thing I've wondered: when using multiple different eTTL flashes (I have a 580ex and a 420ex and am thinking of adding one more), when you use the ratio functions on the flash or on an ST-e2, I wonder if it is just a sliding, uncalibrated scale. That is, does the camera have any knowledge of the power of each flash? Or does it just asking each flash to fire at partial power given the ratio set, and the photographer has to figure out where to set the ratio to look good?

Put another way: a ratio of 1:1 for a 580ex and a 420ex isn't actually going to *look* like 1:1 on the photo, even if the flashes were both the same distance from the subject.

Do I have that right?

I don't want to assume that the ratio setting is a true photographic ratio when it isn't.

John

Clarification: these are monolights, not a powerpack. So the 600w/s is per light, not split on a pack.

Thanks for the thought on modeling light evaluation, esp. in environmental circumstances. It is a halogen light, and I thought they would be brighter than a 150w incandescent "light bulb" as with the White Lightning set. I know my 50w halogen lights at home are damned bright.

John

My photo store saw that I was doing an 8-weekend rental of a Visatec

3-head (600w/s) kit (with reflectors, grid set, soft box, umbrella;

no stands). The rental would have cost me $400; it is for a class

I'm taking in commercial lighting. (I'm a beginner with lighting,

and am mostly interested in lifestyle portraits.)

They have one kit that just came back reconditioned from the

manufacturer and has a 6-month warranty. They will sell me the kit

for $1200 (retail is something like $2400 or so).

Is this a good deal? I'll rent it for a weekend to try it out. But

since I'm a beginner I don't have much judgement.

I've looked at the Visatec site and specs. The modeling light is

halogent 150W. 3 stop continuous adjustment. Otherwise seems

pretty typical.

How easy is Visatec to fit to non-Visatec light modifiers? Easily

available speed rings and such?

Is there anything special I should ask about or ask for in the deal

since it is used?

Is there any way to battery power this kind of setup. I assume

not? If not, I'll use my Canon 580ex and 420ex when I need battery

portability.

Thanks for advice, folks. Much obliged to this group.

Well, my name is John Sack, but I shoot Canon and have an ST-E2 transmitter...:))

Original post:

jon sak , dec 14, 2004; 02:47 p.m.

I have a nikon 8700 and a couple of slave triggers (plus 2 vivitar 283's. I don't want to buy a IR transmitter or a SB series flash for it. I was told that I could use developed slide film as a way to block visable light and still trigger the slave flashes. I am sure it will work, but I threw away all my ruined slides, my question is will negative film work also or something else?

Nadine,

By "non people" situations I meant some "commercial" lighting in which I might be doing a still life, an interior, etc. Generally that isn't what I do, but I'd like to at least know how.

It sounds like the advice on auto exposure with multiple strobes is not to expect it to work, and that metering is quick anyway. I sure hope the course I take on this gets me through the cookbook "here's how you boil water" stage so I can feel good about that.

As for why not stick with my current auto exposure setup (Canon 20d, 580ex, 420ex, ST-E2, umbrellas, etc.), I have been told (the course instructor) that it is not powerful enough to do much more than fill in flash. So I assumed I needed to get to something significantly more powerful (and expensive). And there is probably something to learn there. Auto exposure seems to be the training wheels for lighting.

I guess even with something more powerful I still want portability and easy setup. It may be that that is not possible with strobes and I just need to get over it.

John

I am new to lighting -- taking a few steps beyond on camera flash

and reflectors -- and I may be confused about exposure control when

using studio lights. (I'm investigating White Lightning and

Lumedyne lights right now, for a class in commercial lighting I'll

be taking.) I've gotten helpful advice before from this bboard, so

I thought I'd return and ask some more questions...

Since lighting heads and power packs seem to be systems (like

cameras and lenses, I mean) I thought I'd better understand my

options before I spend much money. I use a Canon 20d, and for

lighting now I have a 580ex, 420ex, ST-E2, and umbrellas, stands,

etc.

My shooting situations so far have been those requiring portability

and pretty quick set up (impatient subjects, on their locations).

So I'm concerned about investing in lighting equipment that will

have me take much more time with a subject than I do now. However, I

hope to get equipment that will let me grow (for an advanced

hobbist) into some non-people shots.

I'm attracted by the idea of auto exposure (whether eTTL or other

AUTO modes) because it would seem to eliminate a lot of the time

that would otherwise go into measuring/metering and taking test

shots, while people wait impatiently for me to get it right.

In the Lumedyne product family there is something called an "auto

exposure module":

http://www.lumedyne.com/auto.html

which seems like it would do just what I'd like.

I don't see anything like that in the White Lightning line and I'm

wondering why not (I also don't see it in other product lines). So

either that function is provided some other way in other systems

that I haven't figured out yet, or it is pretty useless. How do

other people who have the need to move quickly from setup to setup

manage exposure if not with an auto module such as this?

Can someone help me figure that out?

John

I'm experimenting and trying to learn by trying different things and

seeing what effects I like, all in informal portrait work.

Three questions for the experienced folks here:

1. When I bring in my fill light -- usually located close to the

camera lens -- I find I am getting a second catchlight in the eyes.

It looks weird that way, and I'm wondering how to avoid this. Do I

need more diffusion (bigger umbrella than the main? what other

approach?) on the catchlight than the main light? Closer to

subject? less power?

2. As I try various effects, I've added a hair light (which I have

to say is amazing) and a background light (also pretty interesting

if the background is a plain one); also tried rim lighting (cool).

But I've done my experimenting by taking my fill light

and "repurposing" it. I'd like to avoid buying two more lights --

I'm using Canon flash units as my lights now, with umbrellas -- and

wonder if the more modest/subtle (right?) power requirements for

background, hair and rim lights can be handled by simple household

lights (with daylight bulbs) of various wattages, or whether that is

going to fail because the flash will wipe them out making them

invisible.

3. When lighting couples (which in my case can be two men or two

women as well as man/woman) do you do hairlights on both people?

I have to find several willing volunteers to undertake this

experiment, so I thought I might save a step and just ask!

John

A week ago I was a raw newbie. Now there is some light, after

following some advice from people on this forum. But I have more

questions and find that all the books I've read on the topic are not

applying to my situation, or are contradictory (a studio should shut

out the light; a studio should have plenty of natural light...), or

I misunderstand.

I'd appreciate some more help.

Background: I volunteered (i.e., I'm not being paid) to take family

photos of immigrant families (what our California governor likes to

call "illegal aliens") so they can send photos home to loved ones at

Christmas. But I want to do a decent job, and learn from the

experience to get better technique and equipment maybe in a year.

Typically I will be taking a picture of 2-4, up to 6 people, in a

family.

Goal: Portability, easy set up and tear down, quick to use (these

folks will gather for 5 minutes for a portrait, but not 10-15),

outdoor and indoor use (no electricity).

Equipment: 20d, 580ex flash, 420ex flash, ST-E2, off shoe cord, 32"

umbrella, light stand, 6-in-one reflector, diffuser, sto-fen

diffusers for both flashes, lumiquest mini soft box velcro'd to

flash. Note that I have no flash meter; I'm not sure what I would

do with it since the flashes are eTTL-II, and there is no manual

mode for the 420ex that I can see.

Questions:

1. positioning lights for families: If two light: Is it best to put

one light on each side of the camera (like a poor mans light bank),

above the camera (say 30 degrees above) to spread the light out for

the family width? If so how far apart? Or is it better to put one

light above the camera as the main light, and one light close to

camera level as the fill light? (There will be ambient light, but

usually not enough of it.)

1a. If one light, what should it be and where should it be?

2. positioning lights for couples: should couples be lighted as if

they were one person, or a small group?

3. positioning lights, distance: how far/near should the flashes be

from the people? since eTTL is doing the exposure, I assume there

is some optimal distance for effect. I gather than close is good

because the light source is large if it is an umbrella. so 4-5 feet?

4. light modifiers: is it better to use the umbrella on one flash

(the 580?) and the sto-fen diffuser on the other (420ex), or to rig

them similarly (e.g., both umbrellas, or both diffusers)? Is a sto-

fen diffuser on both flashes "good enough" for simple work?

5. light power: the ST-E2 makes it very easy to set light ratios.

But of course there are piles of other variables (different flash

power, different diffusion/reflection, ambient light might not be

even). Is there some way to understand the effect of reflecting off

an umbrella, vs. direct flash, vs. sto-fen diffusion vs. 580 to

420ex flash power? Too many variables for a newbie, I'm afraid.

6. equipment: what will a flash meter do for me, given eTTL?

7. basic exposure: I think I've misunderstood something about flash

exposure. I understand why you control flash via aperture. But I

also want to control aperture for blurring the background (in many

situations, I'll have a lousy background to deal with, like a

playground, a church hall, a crowded family living room...). How do

I deal with both at once?

8. new equipment: maybe in a year I'll want to invest in portable

lighting. I've seen both Lumedyne and White Lightning recommended;

the latter seem much less expensive for a simple two-head setup,

almost half the cost. What might I be missing? Is W.L. really half

the cost? Do you get something less?

I'll be very happy to get advice on any or the above. 'Tis the

season, and I want to do a good job for these folks, and learn

something while doing it.

Thank you all, and Happy Thanksgiving.

Thanks to the respondents for both specific pointers (Lumedyne) and general suggestions.

Here's what I think I'm going to do:

1. I looked into Lumedyne at my photo store, and it looks like even a simple setup (a single light and a battery) will be about $1500 (and then there are the stands, etc.). So that is beyond where I'm ready to go now but it is my target.

2. So I want to get equipment that will get me experience that will carry over to Lumedyne when I get there (probably next year this time...).

3. I'll add a second Canon flash. Alternatives:

3a. Probably the 580ex, which can trigger my 420ex. I'll get an off shoe cord (looks like 1-3 feet) to put the 580 a bit off and above camera for fill, and the 420 will be off to the other side for the key light (though I suspect my use of this term isn't quite right; there should be reasonable ambient light if I'm working outdoors mid afternoon, so the lights will not be the only source).

OR

3b. Get another 420ex and a Canon ST-E2 on camera trigger that can fire both 420ex's. Cost is about the same for a 420+STE2 and a 580. Advantage of this is that both lights would be untethered allowing more experimentation. Disadvantage is that neither flash would be powerful and there might be some problems with varying the power of the two 420's differentially (need to see if the STE2 does that, since the 420 doesn't have those controls).

Advice on which of the above is "better" would be appreciated.

4. I'll try shooting both flashes through a StoFen straight on. A friend (who also works at my local photo store) said he's found that this is very quick and portable, and while not perfect it really is acceptable.

4a. I was thinking that when I was indoors I would use ceiling-bounce for the flash, but I read in a book (which otherwise seems a good instruction book for my level: "Portrait Photographer's Handbook" by Bill Hurter) that ceiling bounce is just like overhead sunlight and should be avoided, and that wall bounce is better. Any comment on that? Everybody else says to ceiling bounce, so this advice was a surprise to me!

5. I'll buy an umbrella and stand for at least one of the flashes, and probably mount the other flash to an extra tripod and fire it straight on through the StoFen. If you think that this would be a bad idea, please let me know that.

6. I'll buy a 5 (or 6) in one reflector set, and try to use it first. Since I'll be working alone (or worse, with my dog "helping"), are there ways of using an extra tripod (I seem to have several...) to position and hold a reflector, or do you really need something designed for that purpose?

7. I won't buy a pocket wizard (yet). I'll try and see if the Canon IR works well enough. I am not sure that ETTL-II works through the pocket wizard, and given the way I think I will need to set up and tear down stuff quickly, I'd at least like the option of ETTL-II as I'm learning more about light positions (and once I learn the positions, I will be ready for the Lumidynes).

Basically, the idea is to get enough compatible but varied equipment (two light sources, umbrella, reflector) that I can try a variety of things and learn. It will add up to about $1000.

Any feedback and further advice is much appreciated. Thanks again for the encouragement and advice so far.

John