t._n._williams

Jacques,

Sorry for stealing your words. I was typing while you must have been posting. Slow as usual.

tn

Shawn, don't be so pessimistic. It could happen. The squeaky wheel and all. I hold out hope that if enough good ideas are tossed out maybe one or two might stick.

Having flunked computer programming way back in the dark ages. I have a great deal of respect to those here who put the site together. I know it is something I wouldn't want to have to do. Then if you add in the armchair critics who will bash anything they do. I can't help but understand their reluctance to put in the effort.

If mate rating and hate rating is so rampant.......... well their may be more of "them" than us. So if their was a secret ballot we could loose. People only make noise if they are complaining. No one is going to set a thread on fire by praising those who make this site possible.

Sorry Jacques,

Didn't mean to take a side trip. I really do like your ideas and insights. I think it could be a wonderful thing. I also think you've nailed some very basic human behaviors. Including mine, I'm sorry to say. I sometimes rate without comment out of laziness. A lot of time I just hit NEXT. Because there is not instant inspiration of words. I am also basically new to this artistic genre and have a lot to learn.

Hope you don't mind my ramble too much.

tn

Sorry about the identity theft really wasn't intentional. I am lazy and theresa takes too long to type.

When I think of portrait I think of it in the traditional sense of an image contracted by the subject, or the family of the subject. Keeping in mind that the subject had to sit for hours when portraits used to be sketched, or painted.

I do think there is a kind of "art snobbery" lending itself to the school of thought that blindly believes only B&W qualifies as art. On the other hand only and airbrush and overdone color count as fashion.

As for chilling. I live at the base of a glacier, can't get a whole lot cooler than that.

tn(better?)

Originality is a hard one to rate. And many will not agree. You know what you feel is original, go with that. You will never please everyone here. And rating are your opinion, good/bad indifferent. Asking others how to rate is along the same lines as asking someone else to tell you your opinion. There are many who would like to tell you what to think. Don't go down that road be true to yourself.

t

That general statement was prefaced with the words "I think" making it my opinion not a general statement. You choose to turn down portrait work. That is your personal choice. But do you honestly consider your personal choice to be what most are looking for? The question asked for preference. That is what I offered. It asked for reasoning, I also provided that. I am very sorry this is so offensive to you. Truly this was not my intention. I personally do not see anything to be gained by shooting ugly pictures of people. But I would never tell you that you were wrong for your preference. Just as I firmly feel that I am entitled to my opinion, I also believe in your right to have and express yours.

t

If you are going to buy used be sure the seller is reputable. Otherwise you will be spending all that money for junk with no warranty. If you are unable to afford repair work, which often exceeds the cost of a new camera. You are left with nothing to shoot with at all. So check out seller before you buy. There are no lemon laws that I am aware of on cameras.

t

I was of course speaking of portraits of me and that was clear. Yes, I have a right to want portraits of me to be forgiving. I think as a general rule of thumb given a choice, most subjects want a flattering portrait. Not street photo, not candid, not something meant to be "artsy" but a comissioned portrait. Honestly how many people want to send less than flattering pictures of themselves to family and friends??

t

I think that B&W are better typically for portraits. Reason being, B&W are more forgiving. Facial blemishes are less noticable in B&W. Wrinkles, dark circles are harder to distinguish in grey tones than in color.

I know that I prefer B&W of myself. And that is because it is more forgiving. I don't look like I belong on the slab of a morgue like I do in color. I am not one for heavy airbrushing so for me it is B&W all the way.

t

"I admit that I am guilty of leaving an unhelpful comment, but this was before I discovered that this is a problem."

Maybe that is the problem. You and others are expecting everyone else to make thoughtful comments. Why should someone else do something you are unwilling to do yourself.

As for knee jerk ratings........ maybe they are someone's honest opinion. Sometimes the knee jerk is the gut feeling. Or are you assuming that it is in response to how you rated their work. It could be that neither one of you can honestly appreciate each other's vision. Or it could be that you both uploaded bad pictures and those are the ones you saw. There isn't always a conspiracy.

As for choosing the right or wrong profession. If your belief in yourself is so easily shaken....... maybe you have. This is art, that means it is subjective. Each person has their own personal tastes. There are those blind sheep that follow "the crowd", and like what they are told to like. And there are those who know their own mind and stay true to it. Those are the ones you "need to watch out for". They will love or hate your work based on how it relates to their vision of the world and life. Or you could just land flat and invoke no emotional resonse at all. That is the way of all creative expression. Just like not all people love horror movies, or "chick flicks", not everyone will love your work. If you are looking for a sheep........ start a cult.

t.

Louis

I have read through many comments on photos where the artist is participating in a discussion or answering questions posed about an image. To limit the photographer to only one question could deprive the rest of us of learning more about their technique or how they see things.

Often times one leaves a comment that they would like a reply to. Not everyone wants to have an email exchange/discussion with a stranger. With your solution that is what would have to take place to get a response from the photgrapher. So do you leave no comment at all? Or do you leave a comment start a correspondance with the artist. Then the artist may have to field many such conversations because your comment made everyone curious and since the artist can only make one comment.......... well each person has to be answered individually instead of collectively.

I also must say that your attempt to look at my tonsils by calling me negative is more than a little silly. Considering for over a week now we here have all got to enjoy your daily tirade about 10 ratings. And of course my personal favorite... the updates on whether or not the top photo page has been updated.

You wanted to know if your opinion struck a chord. It did with me. And this is the chord. This is what I felt inspired to day. When you set out to strike a chord, or motivate someone to speak out. You can't pick and choose which people are inspired. You also can't choose their thoughts or ideas. Even the greatest motivators in history have had detractors. And even the biggest monsters had those who agreed with them. It is all wrapped up in that whole "free will" thing. No matter what political system you live under you still got that.

As for how many comment/rates one has made of hasn't made......... it isn't about quantity it is about quality. Are those comments all of value? Do they support as well as critique? For a beginner do you choose to inspire instead of teach, at least some of the time??

When I refered to changing ones own behavior I was also refering to one's own attitude. Myself, I know that I am not going to make it on the top pages anytime soon. That is ok with me. I am just entering this foray. I don't submit one let alone multiple images everyday expecting critiques. I don't need that validation. I don't consider being on the top pages here as a spring board for personal marketing. I am content with my recognition or lack there of. I read a lot more than I post. I look a lot more than I rate. And when I leave this site I am just as content, if not more so, than when I entered. If you aren't feeling that. You need to examine your attitude, and that is what I meant.

t

And if all those comments were about how to correct a less than ideal picture?? What if half the comments or more were responses to other comments by the photographer him/herself?? A computer program can't really sort those things out. Surely you are not proposing that someone read through all the comments on every picture everyday???

The rating system may be less than ideal. But that is because of human nature, not the programming. If all those who complain were to take a look at their own rating practices and implement positive changes in theire own behavior............. I think we all would be happily surprised at the result.

If you don't like the rating system start by controlling the one component you have any power over, yourself. Or take the next few decades to write a software program that will think and anticipate then address every conceivable complaint. Until then.......... you get the point and if you don't you never will.

t.

That is not an issue that I have ever had to deal with. But I do have a couple of ideas. You may have already tried them, but I will toss them out there in case you haven't.

Since you are talking about state facilities, call better yet email, your local Congressperson. They are often willing to help make things happen for those in their district. Might know who to talk to.

Is there a ranger station of some sort in the park itself??? If so see if you can talk to the supervisor, that person may be willing to let you post a request for a guide on an employee bulletin board. Or have another suggestion on how to make this happen.

My final thought is find your local tourist promo group. They may be willing to help you get the fees paid and that for pictures to include in their promotional materials on the area.

Just some thoughts.

t

Carl - I like that idea. A lot of times when I go through the gallery I find myself clicking on the pic to see what the photographer had in mind. Because I look at some images and at first glance they appear pointless to me. I know that there are those who would say an image needs no explaination, or if it does it was done wrong. But I would counter that I do not know every genre of art, nor do I know how to visualize other forms.... A little explaination could help to broaden my horizons which could lead to experimentation in other areas for me. I could also better understand the comments that are made by others. I think...........

t

I have to say this is the best "ratings" idea I have read.

It could put a new perspective on an image as well. It could lead to a more realistic view of how an individual see their own work. And would prevent others from starting a feeding frenzy on the photog right out of the gate.

The biggest reason I say this is the best that I have read is......... it actually is a fully formed idea. Not a concept without form. Nor a complaint without a solution. And yet it addresses some of those very complaints. If someone is rating your work "low" and they say their own work, which you happen to love, sucks. Then would it really matter as much if they were tough on you? Then again those who self rate highly with thin vapid reasoning, well they are showing their true colors and are doing all the commenting for you. And for everyone else it will give understanding what an individual values, and what they do not care for. And isn't understanding and empathy a worthy goal for any art form?

t

Natural Photography-

I have read that term in a few posts here. And for me that brings to mind something a little different than "nature photography". For me the first focus for natural photography would be to close down your photoshop program for a while. Take the picture in it's natural state and don't mess with it, or if you must stick to a pair of scissors.

It doesn't matter where you took the picture at if after you take it you airbrush all the natural "flaws" away. Just like people have blemishes, so do animals. I personally get tired of photos of "perfect" animals. They are unnatural to me, more unnatural than a critter in the zoo.

Of course I have the luxury of having spent years in a state where wildlife often wanders into suburbia. I can say that these critters don't look the same in the magazine as they do in person.

Just my views. 2lbs of crap or 2lbs of gold is still 2lbs

t

There are many categories that are not represented with a label. Which is really too bad, it makes it hard to actually rate some pictures. The lack of categories also makes it hard to avoid some photos that I would rather not see.

As to the numbers given that can be tough. I have only been here a short time. But I have seen a lot of those bad ratings and comments about such. I must admit I only rate those that I like. I don't touch those I don't like. Even if it is a genre I regularly favor. Mostly because I cannot find a nice way to say boring or over digitized, which is something that I personally don't like unless that is the intent of the picture not the photo itself. Personally I think flaws can be beautiful, but I see a lot of comments here suggesting that pictures should be PS'd to perfection.

Because I personally do not subscribe to that theory, does that mean that I should slam those that do?? I don't think so. But I wonder if I am the only one.

I am very new and extremely green, so my perceptions could be tainted by lack of experience.