mark_rogers

Framing without a mat is less expensive, and less archival since over the long run the print will eventually get stuck to the glass. For those just selling less expensive decorative artwork this is fine. There are no rules for framing but there are some guidelines. In general the idea behind the original gallery style framing for photography is a simple black frame and white mat with decent borders. This was especially true with black and white photography. The idea being you want the frame to separate the image from the wall but not distract from it. However this is a very contemporary look and does not go well in a household with something like a western decor. When thinking about framing you have to consider where will it be displayed and for what purpose? For a gallery exhibit it is typically a good idea to have a theme and not to have the frames detract from the theme. Framed images being sold to go into someones house is a totally different ball game. When custom framing a single image for display in a house you want to select a frame that works with the image and works with the decor...this is where custom framers earn their money.

I happen to be the owner but have you considered Frame Destination? If you only want the frame and no contents they can ship the frame unassembled (need to contact them). That will at least save on the shipping cost.

<p>Tim, UV radiation can be present in indoor lighting as well, but not to the degree it is in sunlight. Overall light intensity is very important also. Mark McCormick-Goodhart of Aardenburg Imaging & Archives had told me that a picture behind UV glass in one location can fade faster than a picture behind regular glass in another location due to light intensity differences. <br>

In the case of advertising prints and out door signage, that is almost never going to be dye or pigment based inkjet prints. Instead it will actually be printed on a UV printer which uses UV radiation to cure the ink. In that cases, UV-radiation is good for the print. </p>

<p>Tim, the fading of the OBA over time will take several years and it just means it will not convert UV-radiation as well. It will just be a possible minor color shift where there is ink, and where there is not, the brightest whites may not be as bright. It may be difficult to notice without doing a side by side comparison. In the case of your own prints, it is a non issue since your digital copies will not be fading. It is generally more of an issue for someone that is paying good money for a fine-art print where they cant just reprint it, but might want to pass it on to their children. For most the issue I am bringing up is not a big deal since most are not concerned about archival framing. I did have a customer that accidentally bought UV-filter acrylic and was disappointed at the effect it had on his print which is what caused me to investigate this issue.<br>

<br />Frame shops are often held liable for the print degrading over time so they will tend towards archival framing which means UV filter glass or acrylic. In the case of framing something like a newspaper article which is guaranteed to fade in a short amount of time they will suggest photographing the news paper article and framing the copy while keeping the original in the dark.</p>

<p>Yes, it is just a temporary filter effect. However, the optical brightener agents are subject to fading over time. As the OBAs fade you will get the yellow effect on a permanent basis so it is useful to keep the print in the dark.</p>

<p>There are some great inkjet papers that are really bright such as Epson’s Exhibition Fiber paper. Unfortunately, the bright papers are using optical brighteners and optical brighteners rely on UV radiation to make them bright. I recently tested 8 different types of glass and acrylic with different levels of UV-filtration on this paper. You can see the results here:<br>

http://blog.framedestination.com/glazing/oba-inkjet-paper-and-framing-glass-choices/</p>

<p>I live in TX and own an online frame supply company. My company has to charge everyone that lives in TX sales tax unless they are exempt and file an exemption form with my company. When my company purchases online from a company that does not charge sales tax (usually because they are outside of Texas) we file with the state indicating that we made the purchase and we pay sales tax directly to the state. Individuals and businesses are supposed to do this, however, as many have said most individuals do not. However, most businesses do. People do not because most people don't even know they are supposed to and you are not likely to be audited by the state (I have never heard of it, but cant say it never happens). As a business owner I have to register with the state and I have to file with the state on regular basis for sales tax. Worse yet, I have been audited by the state and yes they verified that we were paying sales tax on all our purchases both in state and out of state. They also verified that customers we did not charge sales tax were either exempt or resided out of state. Even though the state found us 100% compliant it was still a painful process that cost a lot of time and money in staff overtime and accountant fees.</p>

<p>As the owner, I am biased but as a photographer printing 13x19 prints many years ago I decided to found <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/">Frame Destination, Inc.</a> just for this reason. 13x19 as well as other 3/2 aspect ratio sizes such 12x18, 16x24, and 8x12 are all standard sizes.</p>

<p>Printing on paper that is the same size as the frame does eliminate the need for mounting but with the obvious drawback of wasted paper. Simply hinging the photo to the back of the mat is pretty easy if you want to save paper. Also, as someone mentioned standard off the shelf mats usually mask 1/4 inch on all 4 sides of the image which is a lot of photo for a 5x7 so you may want to print your image 4-3/4 x 6-3/4 so that only 1/8 inch is masked. There is info about mounting options such as hinging on this web page:<br>

http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frame_mounting.html</p>

<p>Press release to announce a contest to give away special industrial quality <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/frame.aspx?id=gallery_art_frame_bubble_wrap_video">bubble bags</a> for transporting photo gear, photos in picture frames, and canvas gallery wraps with less risk of damage: <a href="http://www.prlog.org/11044886-frame-destination-inc-announces-contest-to-celebrate-the-first-year-anniversary-of-gallerypouch.html">GalleryPouch Press Release</a></p>

<p>I like 8x12 prints and I just use 11x14 paper. My frame company sells 8x12 frames and mats. Our standard sizes for 8x12 artwork are <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frames_help_2.html">12x16 and 16x20</a>. The 16x20 is useful for people selling matted prints since their customers can then buy an inexpensive off the shelf 16x20 frame. </p>

 

<p>Frame Destination is helping to sponsor Aardenburg Imaging & Archives to help increase membership of AaI&A in effort to support their unbiased consumer orientated testing:<br>

<a href="http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/">http://www.aardenburg-imaging.com/</a></p>

<p> </p>

<p>--Bob Prichard wrote: "...Also, the bars are poorly designed with just a small round bead in the front..."</p>

<p>Frame Destination has added some additional <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/Canvas_Stretcher_Bar_Frames.html">stretcher bars</a> that have a larger bead allowing for a higher riser. We now have some with a medium riser and one with a full 1/2 inch riser. The 1/2 inch riser stretcher bar even has a rabbet on the back to allow adding a foamcore backing to help close off the gallery wrap and provide a place to mount an artist statement.<br /> Cheers, Mark</p>

<p>Bob Prichard wrote:<br>

"Thank you for your response, but the bars you recommend pre-assembled into frames and the biggest is only 28x40, not nearly big enough. Also, the bars are poorly designed with just a small round bead in the front. "</p>

<p>Hi Bob, I am the owner of Frame Destination. I understand your issue with the size being too small, and although we do custom sizes that are larger shipping costs will probably be prohibitive. I am not familiar with the issue of the bead being too small. This style is what many custom frame shops use and it is the dominant style available from leading framing distributors such as Larson Juhl. Can you site any reference material on this topic? I would very much like to look into this. Neither traditional stretcher bars nor our stretcher frames are perfect for every need but I like to understand the tradeoffs and in the future I hope to offer additional stretcher bar options to better help our customers.<br>

Cheers,<br />Mark</p>

<p>If you want one color for B&W and Color then a white mat with black frame is the safest. You can go with single white, double white, or less common alternative is an 8-ply white mat. The mats should have white cores. If you are going to do more custom framing then you can start considering white and black mats, and black cores. Having a different color core color is like a small double mat so in general you are likely to create problems combining them. The bottom mat, or a different color core can be used to provide a frame within a frame with B&W or it can be used to highlight a more subtle color in the print to help it pop more. In the case of a B&W print the following picture is an example of black mat with a white core being used on a low key B&W.<br>

<a href="http://www.framedestination.com/graphics/metal_picture_frame_1s.jpg">pic of black mat with white core</a><br>

You can use a white mat with black core for the same effect on a hi-key print shown in the pic:<br>

<a href="http://www.framedestination.com/graphics/wood_picture_frame_1s.jpg">pic of white mat with black core</a><br>

You can also use a double mat to achieve the same effect. As you can imagine techniques like this are very specific to the print. If you are doing this for resell then it is recommended to just keep it simple so that your framing tastes do not turn off your customer and if you are using the same mats for everything you can get volume discounts. If you are doing it for display then you will also need to consider the frame and décor of the room where the frame will be displayed.</p>

 

<p>Brad Wrote: "Still don't understand the notion of putting a 13x19 print into a 13x19 frame. Without a mat your print is not protected as it's pressed against the glass."</p>

<p>You are correct. For archival framing, the print must not touch the glass. You can either use a spacer or mat. A mat has the added advantage of keeping the print away from the wood in a wood frame, and providing a more pleasing gallery look. A great gallery look is a 13x19 print with an 8-Ply mat with 4 inch borders resulting in a 21x27 inch frame. To make sure the print lasts for generations, include Bainbridge Artcare Foamboard and some UV filter acrylic or water white UV glass. Such a frame would provide a beautiful gallery presentation and protect the print for generations but cost well over $90 at frame wholesalers and hundreds more at a custom frame shop. Not every one has those needs. They may not have room for large frames created by large mat borders and since they can reprint the print for a few bucks they don’t care about archival. Since they may have also just spent $2K on their digital camera they might prefer to just buy a simple black metal frame with no mat for under $20.</p>

<p>Cheers,<br /><a href="http://www.framedestination.com/">Mark</a></p>

<p>Thomas Burke wrote >...She said that she preferred that I order on the web.<br>

Thomas, I greatly appreciate you letting me know about this. That is not our policy. We are training a new person and this will be easy for us to correct. We are happy to take phone orders especially from new customers that are not use to our website or new to the framing process so that we can catch errors before the order is placed.<br />Cheers,<br /><a href="http://www.framedestination.com/">Mark</a></p>

<p>>Has it perhaps occured to you, that you don't get it? There is no market for people<br />>wandering around with a 13x19 print looking to frame it without a mat.</p>

<p>Yes there is and I founded Frame Destination on that size. My company sells metal and wood frames in 13x19 and we have mats that take 13x19 up to frame sizes of 17x23, 18x24, and 20x26. It is just not a big market and offering lots of different sizes causes inventory problems for the retail stores so you will never see many other size options on the store shelves.<br>

<a href="http://www.framedestination.com">Mark</a></p>

<p >It is a question of what your time is worth. If you have your prints custom framed at a local shop they do all of the design and final assembly work for you. Your framing time will just be your time to deliver and pickup your work. You will probably have to wait a couple weeks since custom frame shops typically don’t stock the material and do not have production equipment. If you do all the work yourself you can get piece framed as soon as you decided to do it, but it will take a lot of time. You will need to buy equipment and you will need to go through some scrap material while you learn the trade which also takes time. You can also buy some or all of the frame components from online wholesalers. This will cost a little more, but save you a significant amount of time. For example, Bainbridge Alphamat mat board typically costs at least $8 a sheet but you buy precut 18x24’s in qty of 25 for about $5 each. So if you cut the mat yourself you will save about $1 per mat since you can only get two 18x24s out of one sheet. If you keep the material in stock then you can put the frames together as you need them, but even if you have all of the material, you will still have significant time in final assembly. Personally, even though I own a picture frame company, I have never hand cut a mat and never will. I have many more valuable things to do with my time such as taking more pictures. I bought precut mats until my company was able to bring production computerized mat cutters in house. Also, it is very difficult to get hand cut mats produced and consistently meet my company’s quality levels.</p>

<p > </p>

<p ><a href="http://www.framedestination.com/">Mark</a></p>

<p>Oh, and Michael since you are new to framing I have posted a lot about <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frame_info.html">picture framing, matting, and mounting photos here</a>. Also, feel free to call Frame Destination and ask for Mark if you still have framing questions. </p>

 

<p>As an amateur photographer I was thrilled when the Epson 2200 came out. I was able to escape the restrictions of the photo labs and create un-cropped 3:2 prints. I quickly discovered the issue of no 13x19, 12x18, or 8x12 frames. To correct this problem and help out other photographers, I started <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/">Frame Destination</a>. Since then I have realized the need for square and 4:3 print sizes such as 9x12, 10x13, and 12x16.</p>

<p>The reason there are only a handful of standard frame sizes such as 11x14, 16x20, and 18x24 is that inexpensive frames are mostly imported from places like China in high volume. Keeping the selection of sizes limited helps keep individual store inventories down, while keeping the overall volume high which lowers manufacturing and transportation costs.</p>

<p>I did a blog post about<a href="http://framedestination.blogspot.com/2007/05/inkjet-print-sizes-for-picture-framing.html"> inkjet paper sizes and frame sizes</a> that goes over some of the options for matted and unmated framing. In general if you don’t want to crop your image and you want to use the least expensive off the shelf frames you need to use a mat. Also, if you are selling matted only work you want to make sure that your frame size is standard so you don’t force your customers to go to a custom frame shop. You can either buy equipment and learn to cut mats yourself, or buy them in bulk from online wholesale companies such as mine or others mentioned in this thread. In general, you very large discounts in you can order 10 or 25 at a time.</p>

<p>Cheers, Mark</p>

<p>Standard acrylic is the most optically pure. It is more optically pure than glass also since glass has green tint. UV-fitler acryic or glass has a yellow filter which causes a minor warming effect. This effect is not as bad as the green tint effect in regular glass. Non-glare acrylic has an etched surface on one side. Cheap versions of this can create a hazing effect but higher quality versions just cause a minor loss in sharpness that is hard to notice as standard viewing distances but will be detectable by the creator of the photograph upon closer inspection. This loss of sharpness gets worse with distance making non-glare acylic unusable for shadow box framing. I have not checked lately but I believe American Frame uses the Cyro non-glare acrylic like my company which is a very high quality framing grade acrylic. The best option is proper lighting because then you can use less expensive acrylic, and not have any reflections or loss of sharpness.

 

<blockquote> MODERATOR NOTE: You can find the link to Mark's website by clicking on his name. Mark, no self promotion links are allowed on photo.net. People can click on your name for contact information</blockquote>

3:4 ratio is another ratio the framing industry ignores so my company added 9x12, 10x13, and 12x16. The framing industry just doesn`t change. 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, 18x24 have been the standard for years. You are unlikely to see any change because the cheap ready-made frames are manufactured overseas. You have to bring them in by the container load and you have to stock them at levels high enough to last a couple months since that is how long it takes to get the next supply in. For that reason, the size options on the ready-mades will always be limited.

 

Cheers,

Mark

Frame Destination has over <a href="http://www.framedestination.com/picture_frames_help_2.html">80 sizes</a> including 8x12, 12x18, and 13x19 matted to standard frame sizes and also some pano's and square format.

That is why I founded Frame Destination, Inc. 4 years ago. Lack of 2/3 frames. Even though I own a picture frame company, I have never hand cut a mat and never will, but I hear Login mat cutters are fairly decent in that price range.

 

Cheers,

Mark