steve_chan5

Sorry, that photo was absurdly large...try this one instead.<div></div>

I'm very happy with my RD-1, and happily use it.

 

Reading between the lines, it seems that the big reason for buying an M8 is peace of mind. If you experience lots of "What if this? What if that?" or if you suffer from the pervasive "But it isn't as good as a Leica." syndrome, you should definitely just spend the money for the peace of mind that the Leica would provide. And if it doesn't actually deliver that peace of mind, you can at least claim that you did the best you could as far as peace of mind was concerned.

 

On the other hand, if you just want a digital rangefinder that does its job reliably, provides images that are as big as most people really actually need and leaves you with enough extra money for a trip someplace with some novel photo opportunities, the RD-1 may just do the trick.<div></div>

<i><blockquote>Powerful but depressing photos to this Vietnam vet. Even more depressing are that nearly all the comments are hung up on camera identification, rather than the suffering.</blockquote></i>

<p>These kinds of images have swayed public opinion in the past, and have been influential in promoting real change - the interesting thing today is that professional photojournalists are being scooped by citizen photojournalists - normal people with the cameraphones and digicams that Leicanistas so often sneer at. They sometimes capture images and release them into the public sphere more effectively than the pros (look at what happened with the Abu Ghraib torture photos, and many photos from the London subway bombings).

<p>In any case, gearheads will be gearheads, and they'll be more interested in the gear and technical issues than the human issues.

 

<i><blockquote> Man is created in God's image? Great argument for atheism.</blockquote></i>

<p>Actually, it strengthens the argument that man is created in God's image, but chooses to pursue their own self-centered interests instead .

<p> I've had the Nokton MC, Cron-C and late, multicoated Rokkor-M. I've kept the Nokton MC and the Rokkor-M.

 

<p> I don't give the Cron-C any special points over the Nokton in terms of build quality, but others may feel differently. And in <a href=http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14524&page=2>my own side by side comparisons of the Rokkor and Nokton</a>, the Nokton wins on sharpness and is at least as good on bokeh. The nokton also has excellent flare control in my experience, much better than the cron-c.

 

<p>Given that the rokkor and the cron-c are identical designs, this makes the decision between the Nokton and the Cron-C a no-brainer: <b>nokton</b>

<blockquote><i>With all the sorrows in the world, fighting over camera equipment is whatever the secular word for sin is.</i></blockquote>

<p>I believe that in our rationalistic world, the secular term for sin is "irrational" or "biased".

<p>Cosina is capable of building to different specifications. The typical Cosina badged lenses are pretty junky, but the Voigtlander lenses range from merely "okay" up to lenses that, some claim, rival old school Leica lenses. They make the Nikon 45/F2.8 pancake, which is considered by many Nikon owners to be as well constructed as the old AI lenses - which were tanks. Don't be put off by anti-Cosina innuendo.

<i><blockquote>feature active noise cancellation shutters</blockquote></i>

<p>What? Here I thought it would have downloadable shutter tones, to musically express my mood when I take a photograph. When you are feeling the power of teutonic craftmanship, the shutter sound can be, from "Flight of the Valkyries", when you are getting that candid at the marriage ceremony the shutter sound can be a (muted) "Going to the Chapel", and maybe when you're at a Cathedral taking pictures of sacred spaces, maybe "Ave Maria".

 

<p>Imagine all the cool tunes that could be played while taking some nudes...yeah, baby!!!

You can compare the reviews here:<br> <a href=http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/250/cat/13> slrgear.com's 18-200 review</a> <br> <a href=http://www.slrgear.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/132/cat/13>slrgear.com's 24-120 review</a>

<br><p>I have the 18-200 and think its a really good daylight lens - stop it down 2 stops from max and I'm thoroughly satisfied with it's performance on my D200, especially with the VR on the long end.

<blockquote>I'll bet the new one's physically huge.</blockquote>

<p>If Cosina comes to market with an 25mm F2, rf coupled lens, it doesn't matter how huge it is, it will sell like hotcakes to people who have or will have digital RF's.

Here's some photos from Fuji F30's sold in Asia: <a href=http://product.pchome.net/pro2005/pro_sample_pic.php?product_id=34872>ISO comparison shots</a>

I don't see what the benefit is of a iii over anything more modern. It may be smaller, but the viewfinder and overall ergonomics are at best "retro", at worst, "sucks" compared to anything since the 1950's. If you like old world craftsmanship, its wonderful, if you want to experience the benefits of rangefinder photography without the baggage of early 20th century ergonomics, then get something newer.

 

I'm a photo-wussy: I like meters in my cameras. It used to bother me that I was so weak, but I'm over that now. So I'd recommend a used Bessa, a Hexar RF, a Leica CL or Minolta CLE. Buy any of them used and you won't lose too much when you decide to move up, or move away.

Sorry to be a twinky, but why are you bothering with 6x4.5 format if you have access to a D2X? A 6x4.5 negative isn't going to give you much over a 12mp file from the D2X, and if you really want the extra bit of resolution and wide angles, a used Kodak SLR/n or 14nx goes for about $1800 these days. Not bad for 14mp and full frame.

You actually *can* get a quiet rangefinder camera for pretty cheap. The Kodak Retina IIIs series is leaf shuttered though a little old fashioned in it's ergonomics. You can also pick up functioning Russian rangefinder cameras like a Zorki 4 from guys like Oleg Khalyavin ( http://www.okvintagecamera.com/cameras.html ) or pick up something like a Canon 7 from EBay.

 

That being said the pellicle mirror cameras are probably the most convenient for you. I can tell you that Nikon FG and N90 series have loud, LOUD mirrors!

Trevor,

Very nice shots - I think you'll come to really appreciate that Nokton. Here's a crop of a photo I took with the MC Nokton - can't remember if it was wide open or arounf F2.<div></div>

I'm surprised that you think the M-Hexanons are not comparable in construction to the current Summicrons. I have a recent chrome Summicron (with the built in hood) and while it is obviously well made, it doesn't strike me as more solid as my old 50/2 M-Hexanon.

 

My DR Cron is another story - it is a beast.

I went with a "dark horse" contender, the Ricoh R3 (now replaced by the R4). It has a 28-200 zoom and image stabilization. I was prepared to be disappointed by the ISO400 performance, but was pleasantly surprised.

 

It was actually pretty good, considering the size of the sensor, and my ex, who has the Canon S80, seemed to think it was comparable if not a little better than her Canon in that regard. The camera is really small and handy - perfect for a carry everywhere camera. Image quality wasn't jaw dropping, but neither was it bad. In my opinion, the image quality is more than good enough for the convenience of the size, price and featureset. But thats a personal call.

<p>Some folks seem to be insisting that the 35/1.2 Nokton is soft wide open. I'll back up my assertion that it, at least for my sample, it is quite sharp in comparison to other lenses. Here are 2 images, the first from a recently CLA'd DR cron, shot at F2.8 and the second from a Nokton 35/1.2 shot at F2. They were both shot from a tripod, on the same camera, RAW processed using the same parameters. The inset region on the right is a 100% crop from the center.

<br><img src=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/4455442-lg.jpg><br>The DR Cron at F2.8

<br><img src=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/4455441-lg.jpg><br>The ASPH Nokton 35 at F2.0

In case you need any more convincing about the Nokton 35, I have one and have tested it reasonably carefully against other lenses, old and new. It is not soft wide open, it is in fact sharp - at least on my R-D1, which has a cropped frame, it seems to be comparably sharp to the Nokton 50, which *nobody* says is soft wide open. Sean Reid's review basically says that it is a great lens, but not as great as the ASPH Lux ( http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/lenses/fastlensreview.shtml )

 

On an RF camera, it is a big lens, but I think it is actually slightly smaller or comparable to the Nikon 35/1.4

Strangely, I have to say that I really miss my Minolta Dimage A2. Its only shortcoming in my mind was the poor high ISO performance compared to more recent cameras.

If you are just testing the waters, and want an optical VF, I'd say see if you can pick up one of the Fuji E550's or F810's for cheap (now that they are "obsolete"). You can get a refurb E550 for $175 on Amazon, and it has excellent ISO400 performance and a lens in the right focal length and speed that you mentioned.

The fuji E900 is the replacement for the E550 and seems to be a good performer as well, but obviously more expensive.

The bokeh on that Nikon is so awful, we should convene a War Crimes Tribunal. Plus, Nikon has some of their lenses made by Cosina, so therefore all Nikon bodies are basically Japanese made Holgas.

Thanks for posting the comparisons. Given the price differential, the 50/1.2 looks likes an awfully good alternative!

To me, the main advantage of live view on a larger sensor camera is the ability to do away with the mirror box, and get a camera that is smaller, flatter and doesn't have the mirror bouncing around making noise: basically, the things that make a rangefinder camera appealing. I also think that the ability to frame a shot without raising the camera to your face can be really handy sometimes. Incidentally, the original poster forgot to mention the Sony R1, it is live view with an APS sized sensor.

 

In a similar discussion elsewhere, we discovered that the projection HD-TV manufacturers have 3 megapixel LCD panels that are about 1.3" diagonal. So you what you have a 3 megapixel display which is the same size as the image of a 35mm frame on a focusing screen. Update rates are good enough to support TV quality. And the AF indicator that works for a D70s using MF lenses would likely work just as well with live view. Plus, you could even get a real time histogram as well :-)

You could wait for the collapsible heliar (50mm f2) from Voigtlander. You have to buy an R2M/R3M as a large, bulky rear lens cap for it though, since it only comes in a kit.

<blockquote>I have the 1.2. How does the Zeiss compare to it?</blockquote>

<p>Well, hopefully Bill has the 1.2 as well, otherwise he won't be able to give you a comparison...

<p>A bunch of folks have done side by side lens tests on <a href=http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=18>this site</a>. You can see some of the VC lenses compared with some relatively old, but high quality lenses.

<p>I think that the VC Nokton 40/1.4 MC is an excellent lens in terms of color and sharpness and especially compactness if you aren't bothered by the bokeh at F1.4 and F2.0 (it has ring bokeh, like the Summicron 40/2 but it is not worse than than the cron-c).

<p>The Nokton 35/1.2 is a <b>big</b> lens, but in my experience with the Noktons (the 50/1.5, 40/1.4 and 35/1.2) it is the best of the fast VC lenses. It has the color and sharpness of the 40/1.4, but also has (imo) good bokeh. All of the Noktons have (imo) excellent flare resistance. The Nokton 50/1.5 is a very sharp lens, but I don't like the color signature as much as the other noktons - it has bokeh that is somewhere between the 40/1.4 and the 35/1.2.

<p>I liked the 25/4, and it is a great bargain and very compact.