robert_fleming

:^)))

INDEED JAQUES! <p> Wakin'up ghosts...

Thanks Brian... I understand now... When a picture desappears the comment do remain but not the rating then. This was not that clear for me as I am not counting everyday (but I had done over 1800 ratings then I realized that this number went under 1800 yesterday...). <p> BTW destroying comments would make sense and also space in you base I guess...

I ve been away few days and back to my workspace I then realized

that the number of pictured I've rated so far came down. Not being a

retaliator, nor a mate rater, nor rating any 1/1 nor 1/2 and rarely

a 7/7, nor having received any specific complain... I wonder what's

happenned. Can you enlight me... private e-mail is fine too

<p>Thanks

Have a just quick look at those little comments in a <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005pZe">previous thread</a>...

Nestor you may find some clues in the similar question I ve raised few weeks ago... <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005QkA">who are they</a>. And by the way, congratulation for being selected POW, your talent deserved it.

Christian this is indeed an interesting idea and I am with Carl answer on Brian comments. <p> To be able to track abuse or put in evidence mate-rating, I would suggest to just make clear the names of people whose sum of Aesthetic and Originality rates is equal or below 3 (that is 1/1 or 1/2) and equal or above 13 (that is 7/7 or 6/7).If that is possible, I would like that to implemented asap.

rude, there are 2 interesting points in the thread you first mentionned. I see 2 kind of 'abuses' (although F words dont appear): a light one >>> people keep commenting and questionning on other people rating abilities instead of commenting the image itself, and a less light one >>> that photographer over-react to bad or simply less good comments.<p> such behavior should be more controlled by individuals for the benefit of the whole site. But it is like fighting terrorism or guerilla, you get wounded and people are fighting... human nature! Sometime it is good to not care, the best answer is no answer to such comment, to stop unfertile discussion. Then people cant keep talking alone.

Dear anno,

I was not addressing your post in particular, if so I would have put comment in it. It is more a general conclusion after months of observation and participitation in multiples threads along with some threads afficionados.... <p>

POW is working as any others pictures here.<p>You said <i>"Patrons have already proven to be objective, and already have proven to have some knowlege about the art of photography"</i>. I dont think so, Patrons have just proven they can pay 25USD per year to support this site, which is good, that is a fact but that is their only common point.

<p>

Many people complain about Critique gallery, but lets not forget that it is run by all of us basically under very simple rules. To get the maximum participation rules have to be simple, so are the rating rules (no feedback is necessary), to get the quality is everybody's problem in rating and commenting and be a good citizen of PNet...

Dear PNet Managers and Moderators,<p>I've been away for few weeks,

but still I can see, reading some threads, that nothing has

fundamentaly changed in the rating/comment infinite debate. <p> Top

Photos quality remains more-less same level as before with quite a

similar high variance in quality (IMO); but new names appeared and I

think that is very positive. So now, even with help of friends, it is

hard to keep on the top pages now, it is a good news. <p> That said,

I would suggest to Brian, Bob and other PNet managers to place a

disclaimer in the front page regarding THE infinite debate.

<p>

Concerning rating: Some people here will NEVER understand why their

pictures received a 3 or a 2 and will make a long thread about it,

[whilst they never question why they ve been granted a 6 or a 7] or

why their average is far lower than another similar picture. There

are injustice, paranoid or self-assured people in the world, so in

PNet. In fact, except POWs, rating are generally quite meaningless

IMO, it's a question of chance: posting a picture at a right moment

where many people where connected and were looking at the requests'

pages, being yourself an active (so-knowed/and therefore visited)

member of the site in rating, commenting or posting, having an

efficient network of friend or ennemy,... I would personnally

consider that below 20-30 ratings, rating average value is quite

meaningless.

<p>

Comments: that is the 'sherry on the cake'. I think that everybody

here is dreaming of constructive comments done by pros or semi-pros.

It requires time rather than real ability IMO. But here again, some

are not ready for it, they will always argue about the ability of the

commentators, especially for those who dont post any pictures, whilst

some others wont accept the negative part of a comment.

<p>

That being said, I suggest an obvious disclaimer saying that

basically, people posting image here in public place have to be ready

to be rated and commented by others, if not, better to keep away. If

one person estimates, using rating or comment, that your picture is

bad, respect his/her opinion/taste, that is one view among others

about your post. And the best way to receive numerous (so more

valuable in average) ratings and comments is to be an ACTIVE member.

If abuse of language or obvious retaliation is observed, try first to

discuss it directly and privately by e-mail with the person, if no

success that way, report it, but dont pollute un-necessarily the site

with threads on specific issue. [A comment saying 'very bad picture'

or a '1' in rating are not necessarily an abuse as they are

authorized].<p>

My 2 cents

Sorry Nude.... my fault... I went on holidays... but I promise that when I come back mid-august... I ll keep on my rating-mania!!! Till then hang on please! AZ~help us!! <p> :^)))

Haha!! let's think about that, you mean that could also explain some other front page winners who get in few hours over 40 7-6 ratings... interesting!!<p>

... and I dont forget about your BigMc Sandy :-))!)

Links in commented portfolios does not work. If I want to check the

portofolio on which some Pnetter made a comment it leads me nowhere...

yes Peter apparently working...

Hi

Is there any special problem today in log-in... I must permanently

login each time I change page today?...

dont feel offended Anthony. My comment "case 1: you can bear it so try to analyse why, case 2: you cannot bear but you can forget it and think next, case 3:you cannot forget it then better not retaliate and quit the game than get in a bad loop" was quite general I think.

If you can handle it then you are in case 1 or at least 2. That was my 20cts.<p>

Personally when I get a 2/2 (that happened to <a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/ratings_breakdown?photo_id=1601287">this one</a> for instance). I try either to find out a logical reason: picture of non animated/ un-moveable thing such as wall/painting, frescoe/scuplture are generally seen as poor in originality whilst aesthetic doesnt seem to belong to the photographer. {I dont systematically share this point of view as I expressed and developped in a comment in that picture page].<p> when I dont see other justification than just retaliation rating from one comment, one rating I have made in the past to that rater,... I just forget it and go next. We are here to progress not to regress. <p> In the case of the picture you mentionned earlier I think you can clearly analyse why you get a 2/2 from some people.

Please read :

"If you can bear it, try to analyse it; if you cant bear it, just forget it; if you cant forget it, dont retaliate and but quit the game."<p>

instead of

"If you can bear it, try to analyse with you get it; (...) and but quit the game."

Sorry..

I cant agree more with Brian comments. The imperfection of rating system is inherent to the system itself and the interpretation any user/receiver make of it. <p>I would like to imagine that if I get a 1 or a 2 on one of my picture it is the expression of a photography taste of somebody (not the result of his human behavior to an individual). <p>If you can bear it, try to analyse with you get it; if you cant bear it, just forget it; if you cant forget it, dont retaliate and but quit the game.<p> I dont use 1 and very very rarely 2, but I do think we have to keep it although giving a 3 would be considered as very bad (which is not the case).<p>

I also partly agree with Keith that comment is quite more important than rating. But I would also add that: <p>(1) I see so many useless comments that sometime rating appears clearer (especially if you dont limit yourself to 6/7), <p>(2) rating is technically easier to input in the system and you can assess more picture, <p>(3) to be able to follow comment/responses is not very easy (more search/alert option are necessary). <p>(4) If you look for instance to the <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=005T5A">benchmark of rating</a> recently proposed by Doug, which is quite a reasonable one to be accepted as a standard, then you have plenty of information behind the rating.

Both Carl and nude advices are very interesting. <p>

Since we (almost) all agree that there is an inflation over recent months in rating, I would suggest to Brian 2 things:

- to get historical not 'up to today', but 'to past date', lets say not the last 3 months, since 1 year, 3years, but let say the 1000 best ratings in 2002, 2001, 2000.

- to get the highest average photo per 500 DIFFERENT photographers over the last month, 3 months, year...

POW is not BPW (best photo of the week). It is difficult enough to work out the rating system (actually its working, some people dont accept it... a never ending issue I think) so...

<p> you can imagine if we need to decide of 10 photographers (I can read already some comments: who decide? why this photographer and not me? some people are able to decide although they dont post or they post crap pictures?...) who then choose 1 picture (I cannot list the comments here .... to long).

<p> so I think that decision made by site to choose a picture which by definition controversial is not perfect, but is working quite fine as far as you understand that it is not BPW but POW.

<p> if you feel that another picture is worth of being discussed firstly start to put a comment on it and possibly bring it to some forum to initiate a discussion.

Thanks again Patrick ... it s working. Brian Im using IE6. <p>you will definitely receive - not my 20cts as usual - but my 25$ soon (waiting from paypal number...)!! :)

I dont know how but I updated my bio and the update link is now

inserted in it and I cant access it.<p>

Can you debug if and when you have time (for a non-paying yet but

highly supporting member! :-))<p>

Thanks

Thank Patrick.. wait and see then!

I understand I need to type something like:

<p>

http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?include=all&photo_id=xxxxxx

<p>

xxxxxxx being the number of one photo of this photographer<p>

but it will be easier if it was an option in each member page.

In top rated pages, there is a very interesting option. When you

click on the photographer's name you obtain the full list of his

pictures, whatever the rating nor the number of comments.<p>

This is a VERY GOOD OPTION ..... so good that if possible, it would

great to have it systematically on each community member page instead

of only on top rated where it is quasi impossible to find a

photographer by its name or even impossible if he does not fir the

condition to appear on the top pages...

<p>

thanks