michael_wellman

I have the Wisner 8x10 and originally purchased the 8x20 conversion kit, too. I would echo George's comments. The system works well and gave me 8x20 for half the cost, but the down side was switching over. It's not difficult, just time consuming. Two years ago I decided to make the jump and had the front section built so I could have a true 8x20. It's a nice system. Good luck

Your bound to get a lot of good responses because there is so much to shoot here in the SW. My favorite place is "Big Bend National Park". You will not find anything like it. You have mountains, desert and the Rio Grande. It is very remote and with your 4WD you can get to some great places. Not too far away from there is the Guadalupe Mountains and if you continue NW you can get to White Sands, NM, but that may pushing it. They down side to July in Big Bend (or so I was told by a resident of the area) is that July tends to be their rainy month. I'm not sure how much rain they get being a desert, but you might get some great storm clouds. I hope to get out sometime this July and find out.

The jump up is not difficult if your already doing 8x10. As you and others have mentioned the biggest change will be the finacial increase.

 

As for developing, I have used rotary development and used 1L for two sheets of 8x20. I recently started with tray development and have been using 4L. 3-5 gals? are you using tank development?

 

I have had a Wisner 4x5 and currently own a Wisner 8x10 and 8x20. The camera's are superb. I've never had a problem with them and I have been very satisfied. As for customer service I have experienced both sides from great to very poor. Ten years ago he had great customer service. Recently(last two years), I would rate it as below average. It's a real shame, too. A great product which is being let down by the customer service. I'm not sure what the problem is, but I hope Ron can turn things around.

The 1:9 ratio is what John Sexton was recommending and this may be what Barnbaum is doing, too. You mix the A & B solutions together, then when it's time to use your developer you mix it 1:9 for one shot development. Where do you find this information about Barnbaum and TMax RS?

According to Gordon Hutchings, PMK is the only pyro formula that you are able to do in a rotary processor due to developer oxidation. I have taken him at his word and never tried it. I have not heard of any one using ABC Pyro in a rotary processor.

 

Rollo Pyro and ABC Plus are similar formulas, but not the same. Rollo Pyro has twice as much pyro, asorbic acid, metol, sodium bisulifte and KBr in it. It's recommened dilution is 1:2:50. ABC plus is dilution is 1:2:100. So, rollo pyro is a more concentrated version of ABC Plus, but ABC Plus is very different than ABC pyro. Some very interesting threads on this at www.michaelandpaula.com in the Azo section.

I didn't say you couldn't develop in a CPE (because you can). I was saying you were better off with a CPA or CPP processor echoing the opinion of several previous notes and my personal experience.

 

Walter, as I said before I had not heard this. Can provide a source for this statement. There are many successful photographers out there using JOBO's with great results and I have been very satisified with my JOBO. This sounds like one of those things that is based in the academic world and not the real world.

First, you will need a CPA-2 or CPP-2 processor. The CPE will not work for LF. Second, a rotary processor works fine for B&W developement. Having developed 4x5, 8x10, and 8x20 using standard B&W developers and pyro I have obtained excellent results. I have never heard that B&W films need to stand in the developer longer to obtain sharpness. All I know that I haven't had any problem and many LF photographers use JOBO processors (John Sexton, Charles Farmer)with good success. The rotary processor will provide an excellent and consistent results with no scratching.

 

The down side to rotary processor and the reason I no longer use it is two fold. One, you have more control with tray processing than rotary(develop by inspection and easier to do N+ or N- development). The other has to do with pyro and contact printing. If you contact print your best to use ABC pyro and not PMK. You can only use ABC with trays. You cant use it with rotary processors.

 

So, know what you want. If you will be enlarging I would get a JOBO, best way to process film.

Check out the July/August 2002 issue of View Camera on p47. The ad for Durst enlargers talks about using a 5K watt condenser head to enlarge on Azo. The ad doesn't talk about the exposure time required, but I recall seeing a note he posted on Michael's and Paula's web page and I think he mentioned normal exposure time were well under a minute. The ad does list an email address for him.

 

This may not be the same person who Michael Smith has been reffering to about creating a light source strong enough for Azo with an enlarger, but it does show that it can be done.

That may all be true, but Kodak is no Angel or Messiah for LF. The continue to snub their noses at LF and ULF users. The have made some of the best products out there over the years, but gave up on most of them in the 90's. Azo is only around because of the hard work Michael Smith, T-max films are made only up to 8x10 and to get any of their other films larger than 8x10 you have to put in a mega size order. I wouldn't be surprised to see Kodak out of the traditioanl film market in ten years. Meanwhile, Bergger and Ilford are doing their best to continue their support of LF and ULF users. So, don't try and tell me that Kodak is the wonderful company trying to make the world a better place for those of us who want to continue using traditional photography materials, because the proof aint in the pudding.

I shoot mostly BPF 200, but still use HP-5 occassionally. I have recently swithched over to ABC pyro and found it works much better than PMK for both films. There is an excellent thread on this topic of PMK vs ABC pyro at www.michaelandpaula.com in the Azo forum. Take a look there for a very informative discussion.

This summer at the View Camera conference Gordon Hutchings reported that if you are doing contact printing only you would be better off using ABC pyro instead of PMK (or rollo pyro). PMK is great for use with enlargers, but not for contact printers. I wasn't there but know of several people who were and have confirmed this. Having used Rollo Pyro for two years and being rather happy with it I found this hard to believe. As mentioned before there is a long thread at www.michaelandpaula.com in the Azo forum on this topic. As a result I have done some testing and found that there is more contrast offered in the ABC pyro. Hence, I am no longer using PMK/rollo pyro. Everyone I know who has jumped over to ABC has been happier with their choice.

You may want to check with Fred at the View Camera Store (www.viewcamerastore.com). I know they were keeping the ULF size in stock. Another alternative.

 

Michael

I've gone by JOBO's recommened fluid amount for my 3005 for 8x10's and never had a problem. If you only got one of your three 5x7s developed it sounds like the problem is somewhere else. I think the first responder suggestions were right on. You shouldn't have to put in 800cc to do 3 5x7's.

I'm not sure that it's here in the state's yet. I asked the US rep this summer about the rumor of a BPF 400 film. He confirmed it and said it would be out later this year, but was not pushing it because he didn't want it to depress sales on BPF200 which he feels is just starting to take off. My only complaint about BFF 200 is it's slow speed. I'd love to hear from anyone who has used the new BPF 400.

I wasn't able to up load the graph, but below is the information they provided to me. I've also included a rough reciprocity scale taken from their graph.

 

Most films do include the RF in their packet with the film. For some reason they do not include in the LF film. It is worthy information to have.

 

My IE for BPF200 with Rollo Pyro is 160, I'd love to be able to expose it at 320. I've heard of some people going the other way and exposing at 80!

 

 

BPF 200

FINE GRAIN PANCHROMATIC BLACK AND WHITE FILM

 

 

BPF 200 is a panchromatic black and white film for general outdoor and studio photography. BRF 200 is available in both 120 and 135/36 sizes, along with BPF200 sheet film in sizes from 4x5 through 20x24.

 

Outdoor daylight exposure

Automatic cameras and electronic exposure meters should be set for a speed value according to the film used (200 ASA).

Without exposure meter, it is recommended to use an exposure time of 1/250 sec with different lens openings.

Users have had good results with ASA ratings from 80 to 125.

 

Reciprocity Adjustments

 

1 sec=2 sec

5 sec=10 sec

10 sec=24 sec

15 sec=36 sec

20 sec=52 sec

25 sec=70 sec

30 sec=90 sec

 

 

Indoor exposure

BPF 200 films are sensitized particularly for indoor exposures, giving excellent results with artificial light.

 

Adjustments for long exposures

Use the following chart as a guide for corrections for reciprocity characteristics of this film.

 

 

Processing

The films BPF 200 should be handled in total darkness. After development is half completed, you can use a Kodak #3 safelight filter (dark green) with a 15-watt bulb for a few second. Keep safelight at least 3 feet from the film.

The recommended developers and developing conditions are included in the chart enclosed.

Continuous agitation of the tank is recommended in the first minute of development, then provide agitation of 5 sec. every 30 seconds for remaining development time.

Due to inherent variations in individual agitation methods and equipment, these recommendations should be used only as a starting point.

For some reason they keep that information hidden. I have emailed you the documentation they sent me earlier this year. All I ask is that you go to their web site and request that they post this information there. They told me they would do this several months ago and they still haven't done it.

There is no reason to bracket. That is a 35mm trick to CYA becaue your shooting film like a machine gun. Calibrate your equipment and you will learn how to read a scene and get the proper exposure. You have plenty of time to get things down. Your not pointing and shooting. There will be a few errors in the begining. Part of the learning process

We all hate spam, but occassionally you find something worthy of it. I haven't received anything from them, but thanks to you all I've checked their web site out and I liked what I saw. thanks

If you had exposed your negatives properly you should have some faint image on the film. The fact that it's clear leads me to believe one of two things. 1)You didn't expose your film correctly (forgot to pull the dark slide, something in your setup)or 2) you put them in the fix first. I'm betting the latter.

 

If you had loaded your film backwards you still would have gotten something on the film.

 

Tmax films have a pink cast to them if they haven't been completely fixed. These films usually need a longer fix time.

I enjoy my Wisner. It's light, good design and very functional more than a Deardorf. If price is an issue look for an old Kodak View Master 8x10. You can usually find them for $1000-$1500. They weigh about 9lbs. Well engineered and I'm told their practically industructable. Probably the camera I would get if I were to buy one today.

I tried one many years ago with similar horible results.

These are all fine films and you will good results with any of them. But, if you are going to contact print the best choice would be Bergger 200 developed in ABC Pyro and printed on Azo paper. Nothing else comes close to this technique and I have tried most of them. Do not read Gordon Hutchings book on pyro. It will taint your mind. Heed the earlier advice given and visit Michael Smith's web page (www.michaelandpaula.com) for more info on Azo, pyro and contact printing.

I enjoy Bergger so much, I've swithched completely over to them. I expose at 100 ASA and develop with rollo pyro PMK 8 minutes at 75 degree's. Since I contact print only I'm about to switch over to ABC Pyro or at least try it out for a while. Seems Gordon Hutchings has come out this summer saying that PMK is great if your enlarging, but if your contact printing you should be using ABC Pyro. I've heard others say this, but thought they were resistant to change. Seems its the other way around. If your using Bergger film you probably should be using pyro. You get a great stain from it and it really is the best developer out there.

 

I have heard people are tray developing at 68 degrees for 16 minutes for ABC. Hope that helps

I normally contact print for 8x10's. I shot some color 8x10 as a

favor for a school and now they are wanting enlagements.

Unfortuantely, in Austin, TX there are no labs that can handle 8x10

negatives. Does anybody have a lab they can recommend? thanks

You can develop by inspection with Bergger films using a dark green (Kodak #3 filter I believe)filter half way through development. I would avoid the tongs and use your hands (with gloves). Hate to sound like a broken record here, but go to M.Smith's web page. He has a series of articles on line there where he has written about all of this, including developing by inspection. Take a look at the Azo Forum, some great threads there on development of negatives.