giles_poilu

This topic is nothing new - see this thread from a few years ago. The fact is Leica's are built in a totally different way in many respects to how they were in the glory days of the M2/3/4.<p>They simply cannot afford to build them like that again.<p>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=002dk3">Leica M quality and pricing - don't make me laugh!</a>

<i>(that's how the M6 was achieved, by putting the battery in the self-timer housing, of the M4).</i><p>Not exactly. The self timer housing and the meter space are not quite the same.<p>BTW DAG will customise your camera if you ask nicely. For various reasons I am a big fan of the meterless M4-P but always wanted custom frames, an M3 wind lever and a self-timer. For a few hundred dollars including a CLA DAG obliged. It needed the M4-P shell swapping for an M4 one though.<p><p><center><img src="http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/monsieurpoilu/m41.JPG">

</center><p>And talking of Chinese special editions who remembers this?.<p><p><center><img src="http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/monsieurpoilu/mpz.jpg">

</center><p>

I would ship it do Don Goldberg - I used him for some major conversion/service work to my M4-P, he has always come highly recommended.

And you are a little closer to Don than myself - I live in the UK!

Thank you both for the quick replies, very helpful.

Presumably the 2/3 light loss is figured into the camera's metering algorithms? So if you were using an RT and a 630 alongside each other you would have to allow for this?

ie the 630 might give 1/250 @ F8 while in the same light the RT would indicate 1/250 @ 5.6 or F6.7? (being that it only works in 1/2 stops not 1/3)

And if using an incident meter (with say, ISO 400 film in the RT) you would need to set the meter to ISO 250?

And one more question if I may, I realise the RT does not have the PIC modes (no loss) but one web site states it does not have Programme 'shift', exposure lock or Depth modes - can anyone confirm this - seems odd to me?

Any more experience of the RT gratefully received - especially from M users.

Hello, as a big fan of the EOS 600/630 (I have two) I am also

considering an original model EOS RT.

Being a big Leica M user but occasionally missing the framing

accuracy and certain functions of an SLR that the M does not offer, I

figure the 'no black out' and minimal shutter lag RT might work

nicely for me.

Does anyone use the Leica M and RT as above? - how do you like the RT?

Looking on the Net I read there is a metering arm (or AF?) that

swings in on the RT? (sound a bit like a Leica M5?!) - can anyone

explain this?

Is it possible to change a focussing screen (grid) from the 600 to

the RT without the correct tool? - someone advised tweezers?!?

Any opinions on the RT as an everyday SLR would be most welcome.

Many thanks.

Re: 28-70 Mk I & II + 28-80 Mk I

Hello, I am looking for one of the above older EOS lenses as a cheap,

but reasonably solidly made alternative when I do not wish to carry a

bulkier 2.8 zoom - but a few questions please:

1. If anyone owns one of the 28-80 MkI lenses with metal

mount/distance window (early 90's) can they confirm the close

focussing distance - I have seen it noted as 0.38 metres and also as

0.5 metres. According to the Canon museum there was a NON-USM Mk I

(focuses to 0.38 m) and also a later USM Mk I(focuses to 0.5m) - is

this true? Seems strange they focus at different distances?

2. What are the practical differences between the Mk I and Mk II 28-

70? Do both have the 'retracting' front element?

3. Does the 28-80 have a rotating front element and/or the

strange 'retracting' front barrel of the 28-70?

Any reviews, links or input on the above lenses would be most welcome

especially the 28-80 Mk I - some have rated it very well indeed but

the 28-70 seems to get mixed reviews.

Please do not offer opinions on any other lenses (28-105 etc) - I am

only interested in the above three lenses...thanks everyone!

Patrick, not sure if you read the post below comparing the Canon 28-105 v's 28-135 IS? - here are my thoughts:

"Sorry to muddy the waters but I would have a look at the new(ish) Tamron 28-75 F2.8 Di etc. No bigger than the 28-105 (smaller than the 28-135), much faster and optically superior to both. The Tamron might not have a USM motor but the focussing is fast/quiet enough for me and the build is much nicer than the Canon lenses. You lose a bit at the top end compared to 105/135 but the Tamron focuses down to 33cm.

Has rave reviews all over the place, even gives the Canon 24-70 a run for it's money according to some!

Just bought one for £269 new ($500) - a give away price.

I used to own a Canon 28-105 (first model) and I was always un-impressed with it's optical performance.

I love EOS equipment and would never change but I wish Canon would make a decent 28-80 F2.8 or even F4 approaching the build and optical quality of the L's at a lower price/smaller size - their (very) semi-pro/advanced amateur zoom's just don't cut the mustard..."

Sorry to muddy the waters but I would have a look at the new(ish) Tamron 28-75 F2.8 Di etc. No bigger than the 28-105 (smaller than the 28-135), much faster and optically superior to both. The Tamron might not have a USM motor but the focussing is fast/quiet enough for me and the build is much nicer than the Canon lenses. You lose a bit at the top end compared to 105/135 but the Tamron focuses down to 33cm.

Has rave reviews all over the place, even gives the Canon 24-70 a run for it's money according to some!

Just bought one for £269 new ($500) - a give away price.

I used to own a Canon 28-105 (first model) and I was always un-impressed with it's optical performance.

I love EOS equipment and would never change but I wish Canon would make a decent 28-80 F2.8 or even F4 approaching the build and optical quality of the L's at a lower price/smaller size - their (very) semi-pro/advanced amateur zoom's just don't cut the mustard...

I am a big fan of the EOS 600 and have a couple of really nice bodies

but one is starting to show a few signs of the infamous stick shutter

problem caused by the breakdown of the foam shutter bumper.<p>Just a

few spots on the blades have appeared - I have read all the stuff

on:<p><a href="http://photonotes.org/articles/beginner-

faq/cameras.html#oily">Sticky shutter problem.</a><p>And:<p><a

href="http://photonotes.org/articles/oily-shutter/">Cleaning

shutter.</a><p>Have other users any other tips and hints? Here in

the UK I was given the same cleaning advice by 'Fixation', a superb

EOS service centre in London; they do not repair 600's anymore nor do

Canon UK - no shutters available. I believe the foam bumper that

causes the problem is also no longer available.<p>A nice clean 600

can be picked up for £50 ($100) on eBay so there is little point in

spending £150 fitting a new shutter!

Simply copy and fill in the following text (BUT REMOVE ALL X's) as required and post as HTML.

DESCRIPTIVE TEXT GOES HERE:<XXXp><XXXcenter>

<XXXimg src="http://www.PICTURE URL GOES HERE.jpg"><XXXp><XXX/center>MORE TEXT HERE IF REQUIRED

Some interesting thoughts by Mr Eastland but regarding his comments on Leica sales - where do most Leics's go? I would have thought Japan and the US, not Germany.

Lucien/Eliot?

Sanford, I have two M's currently - an M2 and an M4-P. The difference in feel is astounding. I think this is partly due to the closer tolerances and fit and materials used in the M2 and partly due to the fact that the M4-P has been very lightly used whereas the M2 is a real old beater and prehaps pretty worn inside!

I have never had it serviced and I have no idea when it was last looked at but everything is sooo smoooooth compared to the M4-P or M6's I have tried, they really are like chalk and cheese. I have had four other M4-2/P's and an M6 and all felt not exactly rough but nothing like the 'hot knife through butter' feel an M2 gives.

If the MP really feels like an M2 or M3 I will be surprised.

Hmmm..."bore us to death"?

So; your shutter has locked up twice, the button has frozen and now the VF is all steamed up - sounds like a glowing endorsement?!?

:)

Steve, I have no real problem with the M7 (lighten up) but I do have a problem with Leica not making a fully mechanical M - that has all changed now with the introduction of the MP. What I find strange is so many people complaining about the MP when they now have a choice of an M7, an MP, an M6TTL (plenty still new on the shelves) or one of the thousands of barely used second hand M's on any dealers shelf across the globe.

Jay, you must have filled some real rotten teeth lately - what is it with the amount of doom and gloom postings you have made recently regarding (as you see it) Leica's business thinking and the imminent death of film!

But when you say:

<<<I still have an M6TTL and an M4 but rarely use them, and only as backup.>>>

I answer: Well, that is the problem with the M7 - with my M2 or M4-P I have *never* felt the need to carry a back-up.

When I can afford an MP I will never envisage needing a back-up for that either. That is the achilles heel of the ill thought out M7. Rather than being a sensible blend of electronics and mechanics I think it is the worst of both worlds...

But, for the millionth time...we now have a choice.

Yes, it would be bulky. A seperate VF is of course needed with any 24 on the Leica but as the lens would only have to switch between two masks (as opposed to three in the current lens) that would make it a little easier. Leaving the 24 VF permenantly mounted would mean (virtually) never having to switch lenses or fiddle with VF's again.<p>The current 28-35-50 is too long in the wide end and too sloooooowww...<p>You never know - how many of us predicted the MP?<p>Perhaps Leica are getting a bit groovy and adventurous in their old age?<p>Hey, anything is possible:<p><center>

<img src="http://www.monpoilu.icom43.net/tri.jpg">

</center><p>

"I'm looking for that Leica font"<p><p>

Sorry, but Chip was right I had far too much time this afternoon - take the C I N and A out of 'Leica Camera Germany' and play around with the 'R' to make an H...turn the '6' in 'M6' upside down, bit of cloning etc...<p><p>

..or maybe it was a Japanese/Chinese hostile takeover bid...?:<p><center>

<img src="http://www.monpoilu.icom43.net/mpz.jpg">

</center><p>

Lucien, perhaps the MP7 is not the only big news about to come from Leica:<p><center>

<img src="http://www.monpoilu.icom43.net/mpc.jpg">

</center><p>