stefan_dalibor1

April 19, 2002

I fully agree with Andrey - the spotmeter manufacturers either have to make their products comply with published specs, or change the specs to describe their products accurately.

This would mean that the Ultraspot's sensivity has to be listed as EV3-21, and the Spotmeter F has to be described as 3 degree meter (and the viewfinder indicator circle enlarged appropriately!). For both meters, a detachable IR blocking filter (w/ description how to adapt the meter readout when the filter is applied!) should be packaged together with the meter.

The way these products are delivered now make them IMHO amateur equipment... you can get some approximation of your subject's contrast range for many subjects, but you can't rely on the meter as a professional tool.

Considered the $$$ that you have to pay for a spotmeter (mind you, for the official resale price of an Ultraspot you can buy a comlete 35mm or digital camera w/ lens!), this is annoying, to put it mildly.

April 18, 2002

Oops, forgot to insert URL to Walter's original tests (sorry, Walter :) in the

lenghty treatise above

<a

href="http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=006QsE">here</a>

it is.

Stefan

April 18, 2002

O.K., here are my »spotmeter tests« - I don't claim them to be

of scientific quality, but think they do have real-world relevance...

after ruining 8 Velvia Quickloads (hopelessly under-exposed) and a probably

unique opportunity because I trusted the Ultraspot's results in a brickworks

(with a rather high level of IR radiation due to large heaps of red-glowing

bricks), I repeated Walter's tests (see

)

with the Ultraspot, and switched it for a Minolta Spotmeter F after

recalibration by Gossen didn't improve the meter's deficiencies.

For all experiments, I put the meter on a tripod and repeated them in

in daylight and artificial light.

<ul>

<li>Low-light linearity - you need ND filters (I used two Hoya NDx4 and

a no-name NDx2):

<ol>

<li>Measure your grey card in bright light (EV 10 or similar).

</li>Under the same lighting conditions, measure the grey card through your

ND filter. Memorize the difference (e.g. EV -1).

<li>Look for a place with dim lighting, just enough to make your grey

card readout add up the low light sensivity level as spec'ed by

the meter maker plus the ND filter factor determined above

(e.g. EV 1.3 + EV 1 = EV 2.3).

</li>

<li>Repeat the measurement from above: do you get a reliable readout (the

Ultraspot tended to show an underflow)? How much light does the

ND filter hold back now, according to the meter?

</li>

</ol>

</li>

<li>Infrared sensivity - you need a kitchen stove (and permission by your

wife to operate it until an element starts to glow red w/o having a

pot on it - anyway, keep a pot full of water at hand to cool down the

stove element if you are done with the experiments :), and a TV remote

control (the latter preferredly loaded with a fresh set of batteries):

<ol>

<li>Measure the cold stove element in dim lighting (should read something

like EV2-3).

</li>

<li>Turn on the stove, repeat measurements every minute.

</li>

<li>With my stove (30 years old Brown Boveri, element approx. 1.5kW),

both the Ultraspot and Spotmeter F started to read contiously

increasing EVs after ca. 3-4 minutes, up to EV+3 (Spotmeter F) /

EV+4.5 (Ultraspot) before the stove element even started

glowing (you should check this by switching off the lights regularly

and stop the experiment once the red glow become noticeable - don't

ruin your stove!).

</li>

<li>Fix the TV remote control in front of the spotmeter, so that

the 1 degree circle points to the IR diode in the remote control's

tip - if you don't want to dismantle the remote control's housing

(most have an opaque plastic cap over the IR diode), you might

have to try for a while to find out the exact location of the

diode. The distance between the diode and the spotmeter should

be chosen so that the diode fills the 1 degree circle in the

spotmeter's viewfinder.

</li>

<li>Make measurement with the remote control switched off, memorize

the spotmeter readout.

</li>

<li>Repeat measurement while operating the remote control - you'll

probably have to make several (like 5 to 10) measurements here,

because the remote controls I know send an oscillating signal.

But if measured while on, my remote control made the Ultraspot and

Spotmeter F really freak out (EV+5-7!!).

If you think this has no practical relevance, try to get reliable

measurements in a room where computers communicate via IRDA interfaces

- I tried, and the Ultraspot's results where so ridiculous that even

I noticed before burning film and switched to an incident meter.

</li>

</ol>

<li>Flare - you need a piece of cardboard (grey, about 40x40cm) and a strong

light source in an otherwise evenly lit room. I measured

<ol>

<li>outside the window on an overcast day for daylight

</li>

<li>a strong electric bulb (100W, opaque glass) inside for artificial

light

</li>

</ol>

<ul>

<li>Point the spotmeter to the light source so that it fills the 1 degree

circle indicator, make measurement and memorize readout.

</li>

<li>Now put the cardboard between the spotmeter and the light source;

minimum distance to the meter should be approx. 1m (to exclude the

possibility of vignetting the meter's optical system).

</li>

<li>Cut a hole in the cardboard where the spotmeter's 1 degree circle

indicator points to - the hole should be just a bit larger than the

circle in the viewfinder (i.e. you should see the light source in the

viewfinder only through the middle of the circle indicator).

<li>Repeat measurement - do you get the same reading as the first time?

IMHO you should... for me, the ability to meter a small spot - and

only a small spot - is the point about using a <it>spot</it>

meter in the first place.

</li>

<li>If you don't get the same readout through the cardboard, and are

patient, you can try to enlarge the hole incrementally until you

get the same readout as w/o cardboard.

This way, I found out that the Ultraspot works really »on the

spot« (i.e. same readout within EV0.2 with a hole just large

enough for the circle indicator), while the Spotmeter F should really

be flagged as »2-3 degree meter« - the sensitive area

in the viewfinder seems to be roughly the double size (area-wise) of

the circle indicator.

</li>

</ul>

</li>

</ul>

April 17, 2002

I'm shopping for a spotmeter (a real 1 degree meter, useable down to EV1 -

so please, no suggestions for Sekonics [345]* or Gossen Starlite).

So far, I have tested the Gossen Ultraspot 2 and the Minolta Spotmeter F,

but am not satisfied: Both are rather sensitive for infrared light (hot

stove element +3EV, IR diodes like in TV remote controls or IRDA computer

interfaces +5-6EV!); the Ultraspot is non-linear below EV 2.5 (checked

with ND filters), while the Minolta (though being linear within 0.3EV

over the complete sensivity range down to EV1) has internal flare problems

(i.e. is sensitive to light sources quite a bit outside the marked 1

degree circle in the viewfinder).

Now it's clear to me that it's probably not a beginners exercise in

opto-electronics to construct and produce a precise spotmeter for

photographic purposes, but given the amount of money these devices cost

and the experience that the manufacturers have, I had expected them to

perform far better!

Is it really necessary to buy a Zone IV modified meter in order to get

something that delivers reproducible measurements instead of approximations

and reason for guesswork (what amount of IR radiation might this subject

contain, am I measuring far enough from distinct bright spots, can I rely

on the meters results if the light level is this low)?

What are the downsides of the Zone IV modified meters? I suppose you have

to pay for better filtering and baffling by decreased sensivity... down

to which EV value are they working reliably, and are they useable for slide

film? Or is the spectral sensivity matched to BW film in a way that makes

them less useful than an unmodified Pentax meter for shooting slides?

Has anybody checked the Seconics 778 regarding IR sensivity, baffling,

linearity and spectral sensivity?

March 26, 2002

Meanwhile, I checked with ToHo (the H was no typo, contrary to the `b' instead of `br' tag - sorry for the blaring :). Unfortunately, currently there seems to be no german or european distributor... after ready Kerry's review, that's a pity!

March 26, 2002

Does anybody know about distributors of the Toho cameras in Germany (or at least Europe)?

I'm interested in the FC-45X... in Kerry's review of the camera, he mentions Robert White selling them, but I couldn't find any reference to Toho in the web store. In addition, I'd like to see the camera before shelling out the money, so I'd prefer a distributor within driving range...

March 23, 2002

I too own an Arca F-line C w/ microorbix and the leather wide angle bellows - I can confirm that this bellows works fine down to about 1m with a 210mm Sironar S (albeit w/o much movements, and of course the 30cm extension rail).

IMHO, this is truly a fine camera with an enormous range of absolutely yaw-free movements (you get up to 10cm front rise w/o any accessory, some studio monorails I know offer less here!), and rather easy to transport and set up, though not exactly light (I use a the medium size Tamrac rucksack).

The few things that could be better are a more durable finish (in my experience, it wears off rather fast at stressed edges, the Linhofs I saw looked more rugged to me), and a bit stiffer standard posts (IMHO these are just a tad too much on the lightweight side, though I experienced no real problems while using the camera).

If you prefer to work with direct movements and on-axis tilts, please consider that the orbix tilts on-axis only if no front rise is applied (but this can be overcome conviently by using indirect rise, using the base tilts).

March 2, 2002

If I stretch my leather WA bellows, I can focus a 210mm Sironar S to about 1.2m - of course w/o much movements.

With the synthetic WA bellows, almost no movements are possible with the Sironar.

Regarding the sensivity of leather bellows: I treat mine like expensive shoes, applying a (very thin) layer of `green' (i.e. not containing chemical thinners) shoe wax if the leather feels dry.

In my experience and with this kind of maintenance, my leather shoes tend to get a lot older, and in much better shape than plastic shoes...

February 24, 2002

I second the Fuji 6x9 suggestion - before starting LF, I used a GW690 II exclusively for 3 years.

The camera is so simple that you can start making really fine pictures at once, and with a bit of practise the results ref. image quality are really outstanding! On my wall are enlargements up to 60x40cm from the Fuji, next to 70x56cm from LF (both from Velvia transparencies, and of course a tripod was used with the Fuji too), and I can't see any difference in sharpness or tonality (perspective and subject control being an entirely different matter :).

Compared to LF and many makes of MF gear, the Fuji is a point and shoot toy - I took it with me while mountaineering and skiing in the Alpes w/o problems, and it's so unobtrusive that you even can bring it to many places (museums, exhibitions etc.) where only consumer photo equipment is allowed.

Though the shutter of the Fuji is IMHO one of its weaknesses (at least compared to a current Copal) and rather vibration-prone, hand held shooting down to 1/60th works fine. With a monopod (a really advisable accessory to the Fuji), even 1/15th becomes manageable.

When I had my first ground glass experience, I was really tempted to sell the Fuji, but now I think that would have been a huge mistake - for me, it seems like an ideal compliment to an LF camera!

February 18, 2002

Of course you can use geared front rise/fall with the micrometric orbix (as others noted, the orbix is an add-on that can be applied to all F-line front standarts).

But keep in mind that the lens will only rotate around its nodal point if the standart is in the lowest position - as soon as you apply direct front rise, the lens nodal point an the virtual axis of the orbix don't coincide any more. >

In my experience, using the orbix means applying indirect rise, i.e. 1. pointing the camera to your subject, 2. leveling the standarts (using base tilt) and then 3. applying on-axis tilt with the orbix.

This is not a bad thing - the camera is much more rigid the standarts are not rised - but it's a bit more work than just leveling the camera and rising the front standart until the desired composition is framed (you have to fiddle with the base tilts of both standarts).

January 28, 2002

Can't comment on the bino, but I use the Arca viewing bellows w/ rubber eyecap for almost every shot - it's a nice piece of equipment, but please keep in mind that you'll have to support it with one hand (or it will sag down).

I have some vague plans about seaming flexible wires into the bellows to make it self-supporting, but haven't found the time to work this out.

The Linhof viewing bellows is pleated with foam and self-supporting, but it's only mono and probably won't fit an Arca. I'm under the impression the viewing bellows could be designed better by Arca, but probably they sell so many bino viewers (even Linhof seems to make an adapter for the Arca 6x9 bino viewer for their M679!) that they don't bother...

January 20, 2002

I also have a F-line 4x5 metric w/ micro-orbis

It's really precise, and nice to handle - the only thing lacking about it I found until now is that the orbix tilt doesn't have a scale for the amount of tilt you dial (I tend to use the scale on the axis tilt a lot with a Rodenstock calculator).

also, keep in mind that the orbix tilts only in the optical axis of the lens if no direct front rise is applied, i.e. if you need front rise and want on-axis tilt, you have to use indirect movements (but hey, this way you almost get a sinar-style asymmetric tilt axis or/and the variable tilt axis found on some of the horseman studio cameras ;).

In my experience, a small amount of refocussing needs to be done if the orbix tilt is used... I guess the true optical center of most lenses deviates a bit from where they are attached to the lensboard.

January 4, 2002

I recently aquired a Spotmaster 2, but this is my first spotmeter (so I can't offer real comparisons)... in my experience, it seems to be a well thought out device:<ul><li>The user interface, while probably more complex than that of most other spotmeters, is IMHO easy enough to be learnt by playing around with the meter for 5 minutes (I still don't have the manual). But I have to admit that I'm an IT professional, so maybe I'm biased in favour of computerized interfaces...

<li>the program modes seem quite useful to my - the way the measured values are displayed and can be ``shifted'' really facilitate contrast evaluation<li>Metering accuracy seems to be at least as good as that of my Profisix (i.e. the Spotmaster gives the same readings)<li>The viewfinder/display is easy to read</ul>

Things about the Spotmaster I don't like so far:<ul><li>The user interface feels a bit sluggish - after activating a control for switching modes or shifting values (not when measuring!), it takes appr. half a second until the resp. command is executed. I find this a bit nerving sometimes, e.g. when I want to switch over several values<li>Averaging over 10 measurments is not possible in f-stop mode (only in time or zone mode)... but as the zone mode is probably the most useful anyway it's not that important<li>In zone mode, you have to measure from dark to light (i.e. determine the lowest zone first)</ul>

Things that might make me swap the Spotmaster for another meter (if only the Zone IV wasn't so expensive!): I tried the stove test Walter described, and can confirm that the Spotmaster measures a hot stove element 2 stops higher than if it's cold, so the Gossen seems to be quite sensitive to infrared light. I'll try to get a response from Gossen about this behaviour (inquiry is pending).

I'll try to measure linearity as soon as I can get hold of some ND filters...

December 5, 2001

I can confirm Bob's suggestions - the Rodenstock calculator is really useful if you prefer a methodic, analytical approach - and for a beginner, the results calculated referring depth of field or amounts of standart angles for Scheimpflug applications can be quite instructive (or surprising :)!

Please note that your camera should have precise scales for extension as well as swing and tilt if you want to employ the calculator to its fullest potential. A small ruler for measuring image distances on the groundglass eases the use of the Rodenstock tool further.

December 5, 2001

Arca Swiss F Line C - can be packaged with lens mounted, setup work is reduced to decollapsing the rail (if very short lenses are used, even this could be omitted).

When it comes to using the camera, this is a full featured, very stable and versatile monorail with excellent ergonomics.

On the downside is only the (compared to Ebony cameras) higher weight... this is the price for the IMHO higher rigidity of the Arca.

November 2, 2001

As far as I can tell (as owner of an Arca F basic), the differences between the ``basis'' and ``classic'' model are:

<ul><li>the basic has a 40cm rail that comes as one piece, where the classic has the telescoping rail (2 rails where the standarts are attached to, connected by another rail that slides in the tripod socket)</li>

<li>for the basic, the horizontal shifts are locked by screws, where the classic uses a spring-loaded clamp</li></ul>

While the non-collapsing monorail really tends to get into the way when packing the camera (I switched mine against the collapsable rail of the ``C'' version very soon), I actually prefer the screw locks over the clamps (but this is just a matter of personal taste).

I heard rumours about the F-line basic not being available anymore (backed up by the latest pricelist I have, where this models doesn't seem to appear anymore).

I can recommend the F-line basic - it's a really fine camera

October 26, 2001

I've seen offers for Linhof MTs `Black Edition'... can anybody explain the difference between this model an the regular MT?

How is the black finish achieved? Some kind of anodization, or just paint? If paint, how resistant against scratch&wear, compared to the standard MT?

As prices for the black MTs are lower than for the standard model, what is the disadvantage of the black model? Is it feature-wise equivalent to the current standard model?

August 21, 2001

Well, it seems I have to answer my question...

Checking with Arca Swiss customer support revealed that

<ul><li>the orbix on the F-line tilts the lens round its nodal point only iff the front standart is completely lowered</li>

<li>the geared orbix (micrometric) is available, albeit `in low production volumes' (delivery delay up to 3 weeks possible)</li></ul>

June 29, 2001

I use the Rodenstock Calculator from time to time for shots where DOF is critical, but almost every time if tilt is to be applied.

IMHO this device is quite nice to have - and if only to check the adjustments I did before, or for giving an estimate before fine-tuning (of course I don't rely solely on the calculator).

Using the calculator for DOF control confirms almost every time what our dear moderator writes in his article on DOF: you have to stop down quite a lot, often 1.5 f-stops more than what I guessed w/o the device.

June 10, 2001

I travel with Fuji Quickloads exclusively - this is easier (you can open the box and show the envelopes) and more difficult (due to the tin latch, you can't take them through the metal scanner).

My experience is only with german and U.S. airports: in the U.S., no problem at all (officers were very polite). In Germany, you usually get raise eyebrowes and gripes, but if you insist they will check the film with a chemical sensor (but be prepared to invest some 15 minutes for this procedure).

However, I have to unpack my LF gear completely every time when passing german security checks, no matter how long they X-ray it - this can be quite nerving when the flight schedule is tight...

May 11, 2001

I have a Gitzo 415 tripod - generally, it's very stable, but I can't lock down some of the leg section joints completely.

They are not really loose, but some of them can be moved a bit (not pushed in, but `wiggled' horizontally) even if I tighten the collars quite vigorously. is this a sign of wear? I bought the tripod used, but it looks from outside as if it never saw any action before.

I dismantled the joints in question, and it seems the pressure from the locking collar is transmitted to the inner leg section by a small piece of (plastic) tube - should I try to exchange this tube to get a tighter fit?

My Manfrotto tripod legs used to suffer from loosened nuts frequently (before I replaced the nuts by self-securing versions), but once tightened, there was no slackness in the joints...

May 10, 2001

To those who have access to an Arca F-line camera with the Orbix add-on:

If the Orbix tilt mechanism is used, does it tilt the lens round its nodal point also if the front standart has been directly raised?

Or is the Orbix pivot point fixed in relation to the monorail, meaning indirect movements would have to be used when rise and tilt is to be applied at the same time? Also, what happens to the pivot point in relation to the nodal point when using recessed lensboards?

I played with an Orbix equipped F-line for a few minutes at the last Fotokina, but didn't think about the above questions at that time...

May 10, 2001

Can't contribute to the field vs. standard discussion (I'm also contemplating exchanging my Classic against a Field version, but am not sure about the consequences ref. movements/vignetting).

But I use a 210mm Sironar S with the 30cm (collapsible) monorail, and can focus down to ca. 1m (4x5 standard synthetic bellows).

It's true that you don't get the full 30cm extension due to the monorail block design - but if you

move the standards outwards on the rail until the focusing cogwheels arrive at/have barely contact with the rail ends (the blocks will extend about ca. 3cm beyond the rail before the cogwheels `loose grip'), 30cm standart distance can be reached.

Due to the solid and precise construction of the monorail/rail blocks, this `overstretching' showed no adverse effects on camera stability - the problem is IMHO more that you won't be able to use substantial movements with the standard (150-300mm) bellows.

February 12, 2001

<a href="http://www.monochrom.com">MonoC</a> (Kassel, Germany) - probably not

cheap, but fairly extensive:

<ul>

<li>cameras from Linhof, Arca, Phillips, Toyo, Ebony, Gandolfi

<li>lenses from Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikon)

</ul>

<a href="http://www.brenner-fotoversand.de/default1.htm">Brenner</a> (Weiden, Germany) -

some Linhof, Toyo, Seagull, Schneider, Rodenstock

January 25, 2001

I'm not sure wether this is a real alternative, but in case you want a

rollfilm view camera, have you considered the Linhof M679?

It's not exactly light-weight (though you won't need a tripod head because

a 3-way panning head is integrated into the camera) and perhaps even more

expensive than an AS (don't know about Ebony), but the IMHO the most precise

and highest quality view camera I saw up to now - and I say this as a (rather

happy) AS F-line owner... the Arca is fine, but the M679 feels still better.

What you loose (compared to AS) is tele versatility (max. focal lens w/o

extended lensboards spec'ed at 240mm), and the enormous direct shifts of

the AS (the M679 works basically with indirect shifts, although there is

some geared rise on the back standard).

What you get in addition to an AS are extremely smooth geared movements -

you can use your Hasselblad backs (as well as many other MF accesories from

Mamiya to Silvestri) on it.

And in the info material I collected from Linhof at Photokina, an adapter

for the AS 6x9 bino viewer is mentioned!

Personally, for now I choose the sheet film (i.e. 4x5) way and bought an AS

therefore - but if I would consider going back to rollfilm (and had enough

money :), I think I'd get an M679.

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