charles barcellona www.bl

Not trying tobe totally controversial here but may something - especially for the alterations - ought to be added. Something more or less that explains what photo.net's understanding of fair use is.

I mean... jeeze we're not all lawyers here!

Ok.... I can accept that, so why dont you just say it explicitly in the policy.

They way it stands you're open to legal exposure, and users of photo.net may actually think they're in the right (according to policy) when in fact its does not appear like its going to be.

Consistancy matters IMHO.

A week or so ago, in the Leica forum, we were told that anyone posting

pictures belonging to someone else would have the post deleted, and be

banned from photo.net.

Today, I'm reading the policy and came across this -

<paste>

Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may include brief quotations and

thumbnail images in your submissions that are permitted under the

copyright laws as "fair use", provided you correctly attribute these

to their authors. Furthermore, when commenting on photos in the photo

Gallery, you may include a version of the photo under discussion in

your comment, altered or marked up to illustrate your comments. By

uploading photos to the photo Gallery, you grant to other photo.net

members permission to copy the photo, to make such alterations and

markups for the purpose of commentary s they see fit, and to attach

tthe modified photo to their comments on the photo.

<end paste>

I specifically asked about fair use doctrine, and the idea was sort of

shot down.

I'm confused - do I believe what the moderator said in the forum, or

what it says in the photo.net policy?

How can anyone else judge your value system?

Is it acceptable to you. If it is, then its acceptable.

the frames in the m4-2 are know to delaminate - I've seen more than a few that way, so you'll end up with m4-p frames anyway eventually

whatever you can get cheap, knowing its gonna need a cla - thats your best bet

The area of coverage has nothing to do with it. Its strictly in the design and construction - in consideration of, but not because of, the format. Another thing to keep in mind, is that 35mm lenses evolve very rapidly compared to MF lenses. For instance, the 150 Sonnar, the 80 Planar, the 250 Sonnar, the 60 Distagon... all of these (and many other MF lenses by all manufacturers) have not evoloved, in some cases, from the 50's, except maybe for better coatings.

FWIW, the Zeiss Planar 80mm, 2.8 - as found on Hasselblad (its totally different from the 80mm, 2.8 on the Rollei TLR) is perhaps better than many 35mm format lenses of the same focal length.

You do get to use the "sweet spot" of MF lenses - the central area - but I agree, most are not up to the 35mm standards.

FWIW, I had the local canvas guy (sail and ragtop maker) sew two 803's together, back to back. I did the straps, which were do-able on the wifes machine. Ya get all the 803 space, plus another huge pocket in between.

My only mistake - hindsight being what it is - was not putting velcro on the back of each case before it was put together, would have been a nice way to close that big flap.

He charged me $25, did a passable job too, sewing binding to binding all around, then back again.

You could only appreciate that lenshood from the front angle... I suppose once, long ago, it was round.

Al's da man!

Hmm must be cold out... here in Florida is more like

( @ Y @ )

Andy... well its being touted as protection of copyright.

Seems more like crowd crontrol to me.

Yeah, and it ought to be clearly CLEARLY stated as such -

The wording now, would leave open a knowledgable person, thinking they were not doing ill, actually violating the cannon of PN

It may be policy - but the law about copyright does give exceptions, a partial quote as follows:

"... Yes, there are a number of exceptions to copyright that allow limited use of copyright works without the permission of the copyright owner. For example, limited use of works may be possible for non-commercial research and private study, --->criticism or review<---, reporting current events, judicial proceedings, teaching in schools and other educational establishments, not for profit playing of sound recordings and to help visually impaired people...."

That taken from the intellectual-property.gov page.

Whats that on the top cover? An instrument cluster!!! Lets see...

Fuel gauge, altimiter, compass and airspeed. Neat!

Seriously, thats one fugly lookin camera.

They'll get big bux just for the novelty factor - being the only M game in town. Enough people will go for that (not me!) to make it realistic in the market.

Kobayashi-San is very astute indeed. Take a $149 body, add $599 digital, and sell it for $1500. Sounds like a plan for me.

Ok... of the war stories, bravado, general BS and gossip exchanged at

the SoFla meeting last Saturday, one thing seems like it ought to noted.

We were discussing the new C/V-Epson digital M (or so it seems).

Al Kaplan and I disagreed on its probably selling price!

Al seems to think more in the $600 range. I think more in the $1600

range.

So, let it be noted. And when the (street) price is finally

determined - I suppose we can both thumb our noses at each other if

its more like $2600!!!!

***If you only post pictures and never print them, do you have anything?***

I would, but can't say for sure about you.

***If Jay was always nice, would you feel worse about yourself?

No, I'd feel the same about me, and better about him. Its you I'm worried about.

***How many angels can dance on the head of a tripod?

Dunno for sure, but more could dance on the tripod head than your pin head.

***If Hermes sells Leica to Versace, would you only take pictures of blonde Italian women?

Are we talking about drapes matching the carpet blond, or mix'n'match?

***If the end of the world was coming tomorrow, would you try to photograph it?

And squander my last frikkin' roll of film? No way!

Take none of this personally... I'm just PO'd today (as you were bored).

Ok... so there's no picture of it where the serial number might be seen?

And the seller wont offer the serial number even parially?

!!!DANGER WILL ROBINSON DANGER!!!

Here, let me save Jay the bandwidth....

In the near future, when film is totally discontinued, new Leica prices are expected to drop.

In the meantime, used Leica prices can offer excellent value.