agnes_weessies

<p>Zion is literally my backyard. I can see it from my backyard at least. I live about 25 miles from the canyon. The double named place probably mentioned for good food above was most likely the Bit and Spur. Another good local place is Oscars. It is the local hangout and has been given 5 stars by zagat. As to the canyon itself in Nov. There is the possiblitity of some of the trails being closed. Less services, but no crowds. It is the time of the year you are allowed to drive the whole canyon not just the main highway. The River walk talked about above starts at the Temple of Sinawava. It is the end of the road in the main canyon. Everything will depend on how much time you have and how physically fit you are, and lastly how scared of heights you might be. The height thing is both walking and driving. As a local, and a person who long ago spent two summers working at the lodge, then taking tours for a tour company through the park, I know places tourists never see, and lately places many locals don't know about. <br>

Near Hurricane, there is the Red Rock State Park. Much better than Snows Canyon which is on the West side of St. George off the beaten path. Red Rock if you ware willing to do a bit of hiking has a arch that is far better than the delicate arch in Arches National Park. Again most locals don't know about it. Then there are the hanging gardens if you are willing to hike up further from that arch in the Virgin River. Kolob is ok, but the best views are from the lower east part of Kolob. That you get to via the Town of Virgin. There will be signs showing you the way. Go all the way if there is not snow to the Resavoir. If you go the main section of Kolob, you have to drive back to I-15 then up the black ridge (which if you know where to go has the tracks of old pioneer wagons and some of the places left where they would dismantle their wagons to lifte them up cliffs. Kolob is nearer Cedar City Utah. The best shots are actually not in the park but outside ad to the west of it in a place called New Harmony. At the base of Pine Valley mountains on the far west side of the valley if you are there at or near sunset the five fingers of Kolob as they are called glow vibrant red as the sun sets and they will stand out from the surround mountains. Again this is a local knowledge thing. The other good shots are along the trail in the bottom of the Kolob canyon walking to the resavoir from that side. It is not a hike for the faint of heart. Do not over look Pine Valley mountains. Thee are places where there are old abandoned pioneer relics like charchol ovens, and mining enterprises. Great graveyards as well. Some old churches from the mid 1800's as well as a few small towns still occupied. <br>

Shoot if there was a way to send me a private message, I could tell you much much more. I'm not going to put my email address online. But When you come I could personally take you around or show you how to get to the good spots and what time of day is best for the light show we get. <br>

As a side note I just did the tunnel walk yesterday. It is the first time since they closed the tunnel at Zion to foot traffic in the 30's that they allowed people to walk through. 300 of us who won a lottery style sign up for the tickets were shuttled to the tunnel, then given about 2 hours to walk through doing almost anything we wanted. One man had cerbal palsey and did it via a walker. The oldest was a lady in her 90's who as a kid walked through before the foot traffic was halted. I was amazed they closed the road to vehicle traffic for 4 hours for this thing. Won't happen again until 2109 when it is the 200 year anniversary of Zion National Park. Great shots out the windows, but the wrong time of day for photographs since the good views were directly into the setting sun. </p>

There is also the good old pinhole cameras. Fotoman and Hobo's are excellent as well. Go to pinholeresource.com for info about pinhole cameras that size. Eric is a great guy for giving suggestions.

I don't know why my orginal post was deleted. I have recently tested a few (5)handheld 4x5 format cameras for field work. Among them is the Littman that I do own. I did this for an upcoming article for a photo magazine. As to portability it is a breeze to use. It is compact, and light enough to place in a tamerac fanny pack and still have room for a couple of grafmatic backs. I also use single load sheet film holders with it. I've taken all the cameras tested into some rough country doing such things as repelling down 75 foot cliffs. Some preformed better than others, and some not as well as hoped for. The Littman held up beautifully. I too have the 150mm lens, and Find that it is a great combination. The depth of field has been great with the Littman. Of course there are ways to enhance that no matter the camera. The flash I have not personally used, but a friend of mine who did have a flash that would attach, used his, and was well pleased with it. It's built rock solid, with care given to the proper engineering of an after market camera. Where more solid parts are needed to replace lenses to a higher quality lens, they are manufacturered and out of solid materils not flimsy cheaper materials. Littman stands behind his products and cares enough to periodically contact you to trouble shoot before anything might arise. That is rare in today's world.

Casey's on Tropicana just east of the southern end of the strip.

I have the Schneider 150 gold lens as well. Mine is 001 in the series. Only 200 were made.

2 hours and 12 minutes to be accused of making everyone miserable, taking bribes, slandering Dean Jones, erratic personality, being a lowlife, dubious business practices, being a screwball, and being a fruitloop. Only three have chimed in to this so far. How many more and what more will I be accused of? I started that transaction for the camera with Dean Jones the last of July in 2004. The camera was sent finally after I was getting people to deal for me in Austrailia mid December. Littman didn't get involved until late Feb first of March. That long after all was posted and read by him on another forum.

 

I am still waiting for the person who sold his Dean Jones camera on ebay because it didn't work to chime in. He refused to complete that transaction when he found out who it was that won the auction. He too will have many accusations to make about me.

 

All said Dean Jones sent me (I can't speakl for others and their cameras) a piece of junk back for the parts I sent him. All parts were in good cosmetic and working order. He ruined a perfectly good lens purchased from Jim Galli.

 

If this was cars and you were offered a good working car for a junker that wouldn't run, you all would take it. I do not hide that at all that I traded a junker conversion for one that worked. At least I was able to recoup value for the money I had put out.

 

Dissent and not dumping on Littman is viewed here with distain. You all should be ashamed of how you react to those who disagree. I have not called you names, nor have I stated an untruth. You in your own conciuos have to deal with what you know. No amount of sputtering and name calling will change the fact of how you act. I would blame your parents for how you were raised, but they are blameless in what you do after the fact once you are grown. As grown men you need to reasses your selves.

Nope no Littman adverts in the magazine, strange he turned me down.

Funny Noah I purchased that polariod which was checked out by a camera repair place in California on ebay. It was in perfect working condition before being sent to Dean Jones. If you read back through PN the old threads you will find that even Dean Jones said that the conversion he does you should expect to have the camera scraped up and the body not look like it was new. So much for the claime (this the first I have heard of this one) that it had been run over by a steam roller.

 

As to the claim I accepted a bribe from Littman, that is completely false. Anyone of us who has a piece of junk will definately trade that junk for something of value that works. As to the slander campagin, I stated verifiable facts about Dean Jones and his workmanship/customer service about 3 1/2 months before I was ever contacted by Littman. Some of the photographers that can vouch for the Dean Jones camera condition are Per Volquartz, Mateo Morgan, Jan Ptriezak, They all held it and tried to make it work. I had it in at a camera repair place in Walnut Creek California to be inspected after opening the box from Austrailia. They can also verify the condition of the camera.

 

As you can see I knew I would be trashed for giving a differeing view. I DO NOT KNOW NOAH, HAVE NEVER SPOKEN TO HIM, AND HAD NO DEALINGS WITH HIM. Yet he seems to know me. I have never threatened a person on this board, nor have I stated information falsly. As to me having the friends I know in Austrailia go to the police for me, It was the only way I could get Dean Jones to respond. I at least after that got the camera I had paid in advance for.

I have had both a Littman and a Dean Jones camera. I guess that would qualify me to comment on those two.

 

First It was a nightmare experience to deal with Dean JOnes. It took over 5 months to get the camera, and then it arrived DOA. The lens that I purchased (in excellent shape and working condition) was improperly installed. The shutter no longer worked, the F stop took stronger men to brute force it to change. This torqued the whole lens board set up. The back was not seated properly and was installed using cardboard. I was very upset after sepnding over $1000 to get that camera. As to communication during that time, at first it was ok, then at 2 months it stopped. Dean claimed he had lost his password to another forum so he couldn't contact me. He had my email address and never used it. He had my snail mail address and never used it. He also had my phone number and never used it. It took me contacting several of my photography friends in Austrailia and having them set to go to the police in my behalf (I sent the last email describing this to Dean Jones) before he finally answered me.

 

I was left with an expensive DOA Dean Jones camera. A few months after that, I was contacted first via PM then through emails by Littman. He did not threaten, he just offered straight forward to trade me one of his cameras for the Dean Jones camera. Being a normal thinking person with a nonworking camera that I had spent a lot on, I did the trade. Not until I had thought about it and asked many of my friends if I should do the trade. I too had been influenced by some of the negative things said about the man. I found I was wrong. He was nice and pleasant. So yes I did pay for the Littman in the manner of a trade for the expensive DOA Dean Jones camera.

 

The Littman has worked just fine. I find it easy to use and does what I wanted from the camera. It has had the lens board replaced and the whole lens holding set up redone to accomadate a lens without torquing if you adjust anything on the lens. It has been properly paralax focus adjusted to accomadate the lens put on it. The back ahs been seated properly and done with the proper material so that it won't deteriate over time. There is also the comitment that you can send the camera back every 18 months to have it adjusted if it needs it. I know another Littman owner, and that person and myself periodically will get a call from Littman asking how the camera is preforming and keeping in touch so that any problem encountered can be corrected.

 

Now I know for making these comments I will again be harraganged. I will be villified as a dupe fro Littman. It will be said I got the camera for free (not true) It will be said I will be doing free advertising for Littman (not true) It will be said like in the past that I am JUST a female, yep and darn proud of it too. There is a long host of complaints against me for speaking up and not saying Dean Jones cameras are wonderful. My experience with them was not wonderful. Igt was not a one off case of a dissatisfied customer, there are more but I am the only one vocal about it.

 

If like stated in a subsequent post above, Dean Jones truely wants to put the business with Littman behind him, why did he start this thread? All it is, is another thread to dump on Littman.

Also to Noah before he comments back, I was not threatened by Littman. Yes he has my phone number, but only after nicely asking if he could call me following a series of first PM's on another site, then emails. The only way he would get a phone number is if that person gave it to them.

 

I have no experience with Noah other than to make that little bit of comment.

Andrew you know well you meant me the last time, and now it is referenced again. It was yeaterday morning that I was informed about this threacd by another person who lives in Austrailia. Kai sorry to point this out, but there is alot more undeneath than is appearing in this thread. The comment I was refereing to happened in another thread several months ago. I am the one bad camera and the one bad experience, thus the one bad apple.

 

As to Mr. Littmam I had no dealings with him until he offered to exchange what was a useless non working camera for one that would work. It is purely a business trasaction similar to a person trading in a auto deemed a lemon for a properly working car. As to Mr. Jones the over 5 month long period of time started out with excitment. then it went to frustration on seemingly a delay so he could go do a show in Austrailia to sell more cameras. After that it went to a bit of anger when I could no longer get hold of Mr. Jones. It became real anger when said camera was thought to be fictious and would never arrive, floowed by a bit of wonder that he finally once I threatened legal action contacted me. The frustration again when it took Mr. Jones longer to send the camera finally. I was very apprehensive about the whole thing considering the time frame, and the subsequent tyraid from him that began before I even saw the camera. At 5 1/ months I figured it was a lost cause and pretty much gave up on it. Then within a few days it did arrive, but was post marked over a week later than he claimed to me. Mr/ Jones may have acted timely with others but in no way can it be said he did with me. What I received I would have been ashamed to have sold. It was scratched up, and non functioning. I had others witness my opening of the box to verify what I found. I had several photographers, Not Mr. Littman check it out, and tell me what was wrong. This all before Jan. 10th. My deal with Mr. Littman came about much later and I sent him the camera in trade the last of Feb. Yes, Mr. Jones offered tht he would take it back. but minues the amount I paid for the lens. He also said he would repair said camera, but given the circumstances and dulege of hystironics, that Mr. Jones flooded my email and PM at the other site, there was no way I would deal with him. I at least at that point had the lens back and in tact sort of. One last thing, I was not even sent back th orginal lens that had been on the camera. I figure that has been used in other wasy and is gone as well.

 

It's sad that this all had to happen. My suggestion to all is to just go about getting on with your life. I have moved on and will soon have a camera I know that I can use and will be repaired when sent in for service. This from someone I can trust to communicate with me, concerning what is transpiring.

First I would not be responding here unless my name had been used. I do not normally post on P.net since I am a confimed user of film only. That does not mean I do not own a digital, it keeps my hubby happy when I go out to take pictures.

 

In regards to the claim of one bad apple by Mr. Hull, I sent him a message a while back about that. I did not like what he refered to and how it reflected on me. It supposedly had been taken care of off forum, but I see it has not. My trials with Mr. Jones are not pretty. I saved every single piece of communication regarding said camera project. When I recieved it, I had others witness me open the box. I, after had several well known photographers in the Southern California area, look it over and try to see what was wrong with it. The whole fiasco was a nightmare to me, and cost me just over $1000 for the parts and such to Mr. Jones. There are several instances I caught Mr, Jones lying to me about when the camera would be ready, and which camera he would be doing the conversion on. It turns out that He did the conversion on a camera I bought and sent to him. The orginal agreement was for him to use his camera and I would try to find one and replace his stock, to which I would be given a discount for the camera. I know it is the same camera I sent since it has some ancient dirt in one spot that I had not cleaned off still in tact. I waited 5 MONTHS before the camera arrived, when in the beginning I was assured it would take 6 to 8 weeks, which became 8 weeks since I was to supply a different lens. The lens was purchased From Jim Galli who by the way is a wonderful man to deal with. Even from the point Dean received that lens it took 4 Months to finally get that camera. Dean bragged about how good the camera was and how well it worked. He even put a picture up on his web site of it. It did not work, I was out the money I paid for it since there was no way I would return it to Dean Jones given I doubted I would ever see the camera again, thus being out further the money I sunk into the camera pitt. He did offer to reimburse me the amount I paid to him, which was less the coszt of the lens. The lens was the only part that would be salvagable.

 

At no time did I ask William Littman to exchange one of his cameras for the one from Dean Jones. He made the offer and I thought about it for a long time. They say once burned twice wary. I had the opportunity to try a Littman camera before I purchased the Jones camera. I was very impressed with it. I have physical limitations and wanted a lighter weight version of a 4x5 to take with me when I was out hiking. When I finally agreed to the exchange, William Littman was nice enough to outline and send me in writing assurances about my concerns. I have yet to receive his camera, but I know it is still not due for a few more weeks. William Littman did this so as to save his reputation in the field. He said that bad cameras reflect on the industry as a whole. This in question is the hand held 4x5 conversions. As to the patent infringement I am totally staying out of this. I just wanted to set the record straight as to what had happened to me. and the disturbing way the camera was assembled that came from Austrailia. Maybe it was the new lens that Mr. Jones had trouble with. It certainly was not installed in a rational manner. It compromised the usability of the lens, and if left as it was, would ahve destroyed the integrity of the lens. bottom line it would have ruined any value I could have salvaged out of the camera.

 

I also did not like the degrading emails, and PM sent to me by Mr. Jones when it came to light his camera was DOA on arrival. I was deluged with over 10 emails and PM's a day until I put him on ignore on the other website, and I had to put his address into my spam register on email. I did save the initial ones to prove the time line and the depths to which Mr. Jones would stoop to humilated and brow beat a person. There was a thread started by Mr. Jones on the other website in which he wanted only to slander me. It was deleted when it came to light what it was intended for. I fully expect to be soundly trashed by Mr. Jones for once again saying his camera did not work. I also was appaled at his toal lack of commitment to meet his self imposed deadlines for deliver. Once I became concerned he stopped comunicating. It wasn't until I started to wonder and even had friends in Austrailia ready to kock on his door that he finally responded back. At all times he knw how to find me and communicate with me. He claimed he had lost his password to the other site, but once he needed to, the password was used without problems. Ultimately he could have stuffed a reply in an envelope and sent it snail mail to me. He did have my home address.

 

As to Mr. Hull and the comment about one bad apple, I still do not appreciate that comment and since it is being used again in the same context, I think it is time you made a public apology.

 

Now for an apology of my own to Mr. Hull for responding on this matter that is besides what he orginally intended this thread to be about. I only did it to respond to my name being used here.

 

AGGIE for those who do not know me

I think you should also send your enlarger in for repair. Not only will your camera shoot upside downa and backwards, but your enlarger does the same thing. Too bad we don't have a dark cloth for the darkroom so we can hide when standing on our heads to focus.