jtyr
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Posts posted by jtyr
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<p>I've complied a list of all the E series lenses ever made:<br>
<br /> <a href="http://bronica.net/ETR/bronica-ETR-lens-1-1-2.xls">http://bronica.net/ETR/bronica-ETR-lens-1-1-2.xls</a> <br /> <br /> or here is a really quick bad web version:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://bronica.net/ETR/bronica-ETR-lens-1-1-2.htm">http://bronica.net/ETR/bronica-ETR-lens-1-1-2.htm</a> <br /> <br /> I also have a few other pdf manuals here:<br /> <br /> <a href="http://bronica.net/ETR/">http://bronica.net/ETR/</a></p>
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<p>Oh yeah, and if you go Bronica, check out this group:<br>
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bronica/<br>
It's a great resource.</p>
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<p>I went 645 Bronica a little more than 3 years ago and couldn't be happier with the results:<br>
http://www.photo.net/photos/jtyr</p>
<p>Beautiful, detailed 17x22 prints. Compact and excellent wide-angles. A simple, reliable extremely portable system. Jimmy Koh is an excellent and reasonably priced repairman. I've never had better service.</p>
<p>Of course, Mamiya's a great system and a great brand. No doubt its the perfect system for many people. Nikon vs Canon, Chevy vs Ford, it really doesn't matter too much. (I hope everyone can stay calm and courteous. It'd be a shame to have this informative thread turn into a flame.) What matters is what you feel when you're out there and why you make images.</p>
<p>It's funny; I'm looking at the Mamiya wide angle lens range (35mm, 45mm, 50mm shift, 55mm, and 80mm). That does offer a better range than Bronica's line-up (40mm, 50mm, 55mm tilt/shift, 60mm, and 75 mm). I would like the option of a 35mm super wide, BUT I also know that Bronica's 40mm is the reason I'm in the system, AND given ideal, maximum possible choice 40mm would still be my preferred way of seeing the world. If Mamiya had a 40mm, I might almost have to consider a switch. 40mm is "just right" for me.</p>
<p>So I think 645 system choice should be made first by whether the system has the focal lengths you need. Bronica's 40-50-60 combination works perfectly for me. Mamiya's 35-45-50shift is intriguing-- particularly the shift-- but not quite right for me. Unlike Bronica's impossible to find and massively monstrous 55-tilt-shift, Mamiya's 50-shift looks very compact and use-able. If I have shift available I do often find it useful. I had the Bronica tilt shift beast, and it was really too big and awkward to use in the field (not wide enough either). It was so big it always made more sense to pull out my 4x5 than drag it around with me.</p>
<p>One last thought: I find the ability to switch backs essential. I like so much that Pentax does, but their 645 system has never fit my needs.</p>
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<p>I've got some discouraging news for you: lenses for this system are exceedingly rare. I've been trying to build a system for three years and only succeeded in getting a 65 and a 100mm. eBay prices reflect the reality of rarity and age. One seller (luckycat, I think) tends to be over priced, but all other prices I have seen are the going rate.<br>
150 and 180mm lenses do come up for sale maybe 6-7 times a year. The 65mm lens, maybe 4-5 times a year. The 50mm lens is mythically, impossibly rare.<br>
Although I still vigulently monitor all new listings, I have pretty much completely given up hope.</p>
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As outlined in my ETR lens spread sheet:
http://www.sover.net/~jtyr/bronica-ETR-lens-1-1-2.xls
There were actually three quite different versions of the the 40mm:
40mm E (MC) (Silver Front) 7 groups / 9 elements
40mm E (MC) 10 groups / 8 elements
40mm PE 8 groups / 9 elements
This is usually true of most lenses ever made for the system-- each had two or three different optical designs. The ever popular myth is that the PE line just added modern coatings. In truth PE meant new optical designs and coatings.
I've use my PE 40 alot and have been generally quite happy with it. Here's a sample:
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Believe it or not, I'd say your body needs a CLA (clean, lube, and adjust). I had an ETRSi body that sucked batteries down like mad (like one or two a month). I had to get it repaired for another problem and got the whole thing CLAed at the same time. That was July and I haven't had to replace a battery since. If you are in the States Koh's http://kohscamera.com/ is inexpensive, fast, and reliable.
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Just to set the record straight, Bronica DID produce a tilt/shift in cooperation with Schneider. I own one-- quite a hunk of glass. Supposedly not many were made, but I have seen 5 or 6 so far this year on eBay. Jimmy's post was quite accurate.
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Hi all,
I just noticed that Robert Monaghan's sprawling, grand-dady of all photo info
sites (medfmt.8k.com) is down. When you try to surf there this message comes up:
Site Temporarily Disabled
This site has been disabled. If you are the site owner please call
1-801-437-6060 between 10am and 6pm EST or login to resolve this issue.
Does anyone have any info on what's going on and who the current owners or admin
are? I think it would be a huge lose to let it go down and disappear forever.
Sometimes I hate how much time I waste digressing through it's cluttered mess,
but, oh man, it is also a treasure trove.
This fall I actually tried to track Robert down and contact him, because I was
trying to revive one of the old Bronica Yahoo lists that he owns. I found a
current, possibly working e-mail for him, but got no response.
Does anyone have info? Can anyone help?
jt
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Thanks Jimmy, that definitely helps. It looks like I'll be sending the camera back to get it adjusted.
I'm pleased to hear that I'll probably be able to use my 90mm Nikkor without a recessed lens board. I did find a bag bellows to ensure maximum rise and shift. I'm hoping that my 75mm won't need a recessed board either.
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Thanks Dick; that's part of the confirmation I was looking for.
The zero detente is off by several degrees when the tension knobs are loose and when they're tight. The detente isn't loose, stretched, or elongated; it seems like somebody must have purposely changed it. I was hoping I could change it myself, but the method for doing so doesn't seem obvious.
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Clarified wording: It's visibly tilted and definitely not parallel to the zeroed front standard.
I realize of course that I can just zero it and ignore the detente, but since I just purchased the camera I might as well have it working 100% correct.
Or is a default tilted rear standard a desirable behavior? I do plan to use the camera with 75mm and 90mm lenses. Would these lenses usually require bed drop?
jt
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I just picked up a Wista SP 4x5 from KEH, and it seems lovely so far EXCEPT that
the zero detente for the rear standard is several degrees off 90. It's visibly
tilted and definitely not parallel to the front standard when it is set to it's
zero mark.
This doesn't seem to be adjustable. There's no mention in the manual of this
"feature" or how to change it.
Can anyone share any wisdom? Does it need a CLA?
jt
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Oh, one more note on the lenses.
There are four periods of lens design: MC, E, EII, and PE. The PE's were the last, and reputedly, the best having been through a significant re-design process. They also seem to be the most plentiful, followed by the original MC lenses. I've even heard good things about many MC lenses, so I doubt you could go wrong.
Because ETR gear is such a bargain, I just went right for the PE lenses from the start, and as I've said, have been very pleased with the results. My PE lenses all have solid, painted metal barrels-- Bronica knew where to put metal to its best effect.
BTW, my gear sees constant, vigorous (though usually responsible) use.
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A year and a half ago I picked up an ETRSi outfit from KEH. It instantly made sense to me. After spending sometime figuring exactly which ETR series camera would work best for my pruposes and building my total system, it has become my primary system. In most cases it's an excellent substitute for my Nikon manual focus gear, and even some of my Nikon auto focus gear.
Lens quality compares very well to my Nikon gear as well as Pentax 67 gear that I have used. Check out my gallery:
http://www.photo.net/photodb/member-photos?user_id=451472
Nearly all the current work is shot with my ETR gear.
As for build quality there are two periods in the ETR line: the metal period 1976 - 81 and the polycarbonate period 1982 - 2004. Until 1981 much of the ETR system (including ETRS bodies) was either painted black metal or unpainted chrome. Some parts of finder housings were polycarbonate, but most everything else was well-built metal. Really, Bronica gear from this time period compares very well with my Nikon F2 system.
I've also had good experiences with later polycarbonate period gear. The final back shell design (Ei) is clearly superior to anything that came before and is almost completely metal. The Ei inserts are clad in polycarbonate, but well designed. Much of the rest of the last, ETRSi-era components are well-designed and packed with modern features, but make extensive use of polycarbonate. The ETRSi body, AE-III prism, and Ei-II Motor Winder are particularly excellent, and IMHO blow away all but the very most recent (and very most expensive) Blad equivalents away in terms of features. Certainly this most recent polycarb gear isn't going to have the solid and precise feel of any Blad, but I've got many rolls of film through my system and found it to be very reliable.
The long life and high sales of the ETR system allow you to mix and match the best components from early and late time periods. Right now I think the ETR system is one of the very best values in a rock-bottom medium format buyer's market.
See this page for a good summary of the system's features and eveolution:
http://tamron.com/bronica/etr_guide.asp
Hope this helps.
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Just to set the record straight.
The chrome ETRSi was a Limited Edition put out in 1996, commemorating 300,000 ETR series cameras produced. It came with a matte focusing screen, winding crank, complete set of covers, a Limited Edition chrome Ei 120 Film back, Ei dark slide, wide Bronica strap, and instructions. All parts of the package were standard Bronica items except the chrome 120 back and body.
With the medium format market hitting rock bottom, there have been a few floating around. In fall of 2005, I picked up one from KEH and one complete set with box on eBay. I've since seen two or three more go on eBay and one more pop up at KEH.
Throughout the life of the ETR line Bronica kept producing chrome bodies and backs, starting with the line's introduction in 1976. To my knowledge they made chrome ETR, ETRS, and the Limited Edition ETRSi bodies, chrome 120, 220, and 70mm backs. The chrome ETR and ETRS bodies came with chrome winding cranks, while the 1996 Limited ETRSi came with a standard black crank. Also the ETR and ETRS backs had chrome shells/frames and chrome inserts, while the 1996 chrome 120 backs had a standard black shell with a chrome insert.
You can view an ETR manual that shows the original chrome components of the system here:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/bronica_etr/bronica_etr.htm
I'm pretty certain there were never any chrome metal finders.
To confuse buyers greatly however there was a later, silver colored polycarbonate (plastic) special edition (40th Anniversary) that did have it's own matching AE-III Finder and Speed Grip. This set uses grey instead of black leatherette. It is very pretty (and Bronica finally got rid of the typographic mishmash of the ETRSi line and used their great original type and logo from the 60s)-- but no part of it is metal chrome.
I've managed to put together a pretty complete chrome system with ETR/S chrome cranks and 120 and 220 backs. They all look good and work well together with the other standard black components. Finally I'll note that one can replace the black plastic ME and MLU levers and the whole winder cover of the 1996 edition with metal chrome versions scavenged from any ETR parts bodies. Makes the thoroughly modern ETRSi body hark back to the looks of an S2, and more importantly gives you a very rugged, compact, modern medium format body.
I'll try to post some photos. There is a real lack of information on the chrome versions of the ETRSi.
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It's really hard to give a defnititive answer to the "which is brighter question", because there are so many variables. Both camera systems have interchangable screens and (of course) interchangable lenses. Max lens aperture and the focusing screen are the two main factors to my understanding. On Bronica's system the normal lens has a f/2.8 max apeture. The Mamiya might have a slightly faster normal. Both system have a wide array of screen options with many different focusing aids-- what ever you want! Even better, Beattie currently makes a wide variety of bright screens for both systems.
So in the best case, with a Beattie screen and fastest available lens, which is best? I personally doubt there is much difference. (Though admittedly I've never tried the Mamiya.)
I have my ETRSi setup with AE-III and Beattie screen (45 split w/ grid) and it's lovely. Brightness and contrast compare well with my Nikon F2 and F4.
One other thing I'll add to this thread, I beleive the Bronica system has a wider variety of prism options: AE-III, Rotary, Action, Sports, Waist Level, etc. The Rotary in particular is very useful and unique to Bronica.
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I just got a used 75mm shift lens from a very reputable used dealer. Everything looks and
works great, EXCEPT the shift mechanism is really loose, so much so that the lens shifts on
its own according to the pull of gravity. It won't hold any shifted position. Am I missing
something here? Is there a way for the user to adjust the tension? Is there a shift lock?
I have a Nikon shift lens, so I'm familar with basic operation of a shift lenses.
I am confident that my dealer will do right by me, but I want to make sure that I really have
a problem.
jt
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None taken, my friend.
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Just to clarify for Del, the composite that I posted was made solely from pieces that I
downloaded from www.zeiss.de. Nothing was added or filled in. Basically I took the small
picture of the whole camera, blew it up, and then peiced the closeups together on top of
it. Just a few wasted hours in Photoshop.
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Here's what I think: Cosina body and lens hardware, rf/vf
designed by Stephen Gandy's purported Hexar & G2 subcontractor.
What do people think of my 1:2 format digital theory? That might explain the
"color cast" teaser. It also looks like the camera has a 21mm lens. Wouldn't
that lend itself to my theory, giving enough coverage for a digital 1:2
format?
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The design of the lens mount also looks rather Cosina to me. In fact it looks like there is a
hood bayonette that strongly resembles the Voigtlander 40/2 SL lens.
The top housing layout and design does resemble both the Contax G2 and Hexar RF,
which meshes well with a claim made by Stephen Gandy on the CVUG list, that the the rf/
vf for both cameras were made by the same sub-contractor.
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The hinge and the collar around the lens mounting button are Cosina all the way.
The viewfinder/rangefinder is quite distinct from any Bessa past, present, or future (R2A &
R3A).
Does anyone else think that the small rangefinder window looks longer than normal?
I think it is significant that all images in the puzzle (including the sample photos) are in
the long 1:2 format. It must take 1:2 format pictures.
Given lens coverage issues, digital seems more likely than film. 24mm x 48mm film
images would mean much more new design and engineering work, wouldn't it? That
means that the G lenses couldn't be easily re-purposed.
Of course the Cosina/Epson RD-1 still incorporates the typical Cosina/Bessa hinge.
I'm actually beginning to lean towards this being a digital camera.
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<p>
I was sick in bed today, so I put the puzzle together. What a total waste of time!</p>
<p><img src="http://sover.net/%7Ejtyr/zi.jpg" width="700" height="417"></p>
Bronica 40mm MC and PE Lenses any idea of the difference
in Medium Format
Posted