adam_gooder

So I'm reporting back on the Lyson Daylight Darkroom inks. Beautiful, neutral prints in tungsten light--turn green in daylight. Spectacular metamerism! The metamerism itself is consistent, so if you can put up with printing for a certain light, the quality is good. I can't--I hate it. So I'm now printing with carbon-based neutral tone Piezo inks--very nice. Only works with matte paper, though--images just don't have the same bite to them as with the Lyson darkroom gloss paper. Next step is to experiment with different papers--I think a less textured paper with optical brighteners will work for me (I'm printing on Hahnemuhle William Turner, which is beautiful, but is both textured and a natural white--good for some images, but not all).

 

I know none of this helps with the question at hand, but I thought you might enjoy my arduous search for alternatives. Really, I would probably save money by renting darkroom time.

Hi,

I sheepishly rescind my praise on other threads for the Lyson Daylight Darkroom inks. Yes, the blacks are incredible, the midtones are nice, and the darkroom gloss paper bears an uncanny resemblance to Fiber-based enlarging paper from the good ol' wet darkroom. But the metamerism is TERRIBLE! I don't know if this bothers me more than other people. It's not any worse than the 2200 inks normally are (the color inks), but it's just as bad. Walk from tungsten into daylight and the prints turn GREEN! Aweful! This was not a problem with the Lyson quadtone inks I had loaded in my 890, because they were neutral tone only--these newer Lyson inks include color for "toning" your print. It's total bullshit. Unfortunately, Lyson does not make a "neutral only" set of 7 inks. After spending $$, I'm going to ditch this system. I just want monochrome!

Oh well, my mistake-- a learning experience. Don't make this mistake, if metamerism bothers you.

Hi,

I sheepishly rescind my praise for the Lyson Daylight Darkroom inks. Yes, the blacks are incredible, the midtones are nice, and the darkroom gloss paper bears an uncanny resemblance to Fiber-based enlarging paper from the good ol' wet darkroom. But the metamerism is TERRIBLE! I don't know if this bothers me more than other people. It's not any worse than the 2200 inks normally are (the color inks), but it's just as bad. Walk from tungsten into daylight and the prints turn GREEN! Aweful! This was not a problem with the Lyson quadtone inks I had loaded in my 890, because they were neutral tone only--these newer Lyson inks include color for "toning" your print. It's total bullshit. Unfortunately, Lyson does not make a "neutral only" set of 7 inks. After spending $$, I'm going to ditch this system. I just want monochrome!

Oh well, my mistake-- a learning experience. Don't make this mistake, if metamerism bothers you.

I'm printing with the Lyson Daylight Darkroom system with my Epson 2200 and the prints look amazing. Feel amazing too--the darkroom gloss paper really does resemble fiber enlarging paper. The surface is wonderful. The blacks really are deep and intense. I'm a big fan. The software is a bit lame and could use improvement, but it does the job. If you want beautiful prints, use the inks with the profiles and the Lyson paper and you'll be happy. Just make sure you read the instructions that come with the inks, regarding getting those rollers out of the way--the ink dries slow, so any rollers will leave big marks (the "pizza wheels" don't affect the print, luckily).

I know this post is well over a year old, but there is a lack of real info on Lyson's Daylight Darkroom system on the net. I've been printing with it on my 2200 for a few days and my initial response is: spectacular. With the Darkroom Gloss paper, like fiber prints--but flatter! Dense blacks, lots of shadow detail (I scan with a Nikon Coolscan V), nice tone--reminds me of Agfa Neutral VC fiber paper in terms of it's tone. The software is extremely simple--keep photoshop open a the same time to tweek your curves. It's so simple, there is no "Zoom" feature when viewing your print. There's no ruler on the side of the view window! However, the view is very accurate to what you're going to see on the Lyson paper.

 

Lyson doesn't tell you a couple of very important things: Use cable tie ends to prop up your rollers (as illustrated here: http://www.inksupply.info/index.php?_a=knowledgebase&_j=questiondetails&_i=75), otherwise they will leave track marks. The paper is very thick; load it from the back and you won't have a problem (you probably knew that one already, but hears a link: http://files.support.epson.com/flash/pho22_/thick_paper.html .

Don't touch the image area for a couple of minutes--it needs to dry. In printer preferences (Advanced Features, Ink Configuration), turn the drying time up 20% and the Color Density down to -10%. Then you'll be ready to go.

 

If you're like me--reluctant and skeptical to make fine B&W prints outside the darkroom, and just don't like the way Piezo or MIS prints look for your work, try Lyson's system.<div></div>

Josh,

Nothing beats monochrome inks for monochrome printing. I've been using Lyson Quadtone inks with an Epson 890 and Epson 1280 for a couple of years, and the results are very good. I just followed Lyson's simple instructions for settings in photoshop and the epson print profile. When the results are pleasing, I stop thinking about replicating all those years in the fiber printing in the wet darkroom and judge the print on its own merits. But the main thing, which concerned me too when I first started trying to use a RIP to get acceptable digital prints, was that the curves and color cast was such a gamble--I loved choosing a paper for it's tone, then using Selenium, for instance. Printing black and white on a color printer using the standard inks is like if any slight change in the mixing of the chemical developer (a couple degrees, a little more dilute) changed the color completely--it was insane! And very expensive! With monochrome inks, regardless of which system you go with, you start to have a dependable workflow from which you can improvise and experiment.

 

The Quadtone inks I used were neutral, and let me tell you, they were very, very neutral--more than most darkroom enlarging paper. Taking color out of the equation meant tweeking contrast and tone then became a joy in photoshop, using curves--a huge improvement. So those might not be right for you, if you want cool or warm tones.

 

My advice is to dedicate a printer to black and white. I just ordered the Lyson Daylight Darkroom starter kit (7 ink cartridges) for my 2200. I'll let you know how these look. I've never tried the MIS Ultratone carbon inks or the Piezo system (which are a bit cheaper to start with), because I was so amazed by how great the Quadtones looked. I'm excited because the Lyson system now has its own stand alone software, and also paper optimized for the inks. The one that's supposed to look like traditional fiber paper is the 320gsm Darkroom Gloss. Of course, I'm spouting off all of this advice, but the proof is in the print. Are you the same Joshua Wein that manages the photo basement at AIB? If so, we've met--I was an MFA student there. I will gladly visit you with a couple of fine prints so you can see the Lyson results, if you're interested. Let me know...my current (often checked) email is gooder@verizon.net

35mm. It can look like a "normal" lens--low distortion--but it gives you that extra space in the background to show where you are, and how you're subjects look in their environment.

Consider

Also consider getting a new 24-85 AF-S "G" lens and shooting fast film (like Kodak 3200 pulled to 1200; you don't want to go slower than 400 speed film with this lens, due to the 3.5-4.5 max aperture). It's REALLY quiet, focuses REALLY fast, and is nice and sharp! Also, you can manually adjust focus. Finally, it focuses close. Don't get it if it feels too heavy, if you are going to print larger than 8x10 (on 11x14 paper, say)--you'll see the difference in sharpness--or, if you want to shoot in low light. I opted for the 35mm and 50mm (I use both, depending on my mood) because I print big and shoot in available light at night.

Part of the suggestion for the zoom is so you can get all the lenses a street photog wants in one. The other is because when you are in tight spaces...in a flea market, for instance, or a taxi cab...that 24mm wide angle is priceless.

By the way, I shoot people, and the N80 is an excellent choice. You see it (or a camera shaped like it) hanging around the necks of everyone from students to tourists. In other words, it's not a big deal. Whenever a Leica comes out, anyone who has read too much Photo.net (people like me), say "ahh, is that a Leica; what kind?" The N80 is extremely quiet--if you turn off the autofocus. I find the viewfinder bright enough with an f/2 or f/1.8 lens to focus manually with good accuracy.

Good luck, Adam

Charles,

I'm not the photog who asked the question, but THANK YOU for scanning that manual. I bought a great GA645 wide used and needed it to figure out the hidden function settings!

As far as I can tell none of the specs, or the manual, really specify a good match as far as a speedlight goes, aside from saying that with the SB28, 28DX, 50DX, 22s, 16B and 29 the flash symbol will light up in the viewfinder when the flash is fully charged. Helpful, but what shows up on the LCD of the speedlight? Does the new 45mm f/2.8 lens (which has a chip in it)cause more info to come up? I may call Nikon...

I can't find a specific recommendation on which modern Nikon

speedlight (or other dedicated, shoe-mounted flash) would work best

with my pretty little Nikon FM3a. I'm a natural light kind of guy,

so have yet to make use of it's TTL flash ability...but will have to

for event work coming up. My previous flash experience was a while

ago, with an automated camera (Pentax PZ1P) that handled exposure

compensation, etc in the body. That worked great, but it was EASY.

I'm not into easy anymore with my photography...although I'm sure the

FM3a's TTL and that minus 1 ev button are going to make it possible

to get great exposures with the right flash. Has anyone been using

the FM3a with a newer, high end Nikon flash made for the autofocus

cameras with success? (Like an SB24, 25, 26, 28 or 30?) Or Nikon-

dedicated units by another brand, like Metz, or those new Sigma 500

flashes? By "success", I mean with subtle outdoor fill flash as well

as correct indoor flash, with a softbox attachment or bounce.

I'm thinking about buying an SB28, but I don't really know. Any

suggestions?

Thanks!