Re: Please in Medium Format Posted October 10, 1997 On 10 Oct 97 at 11:43, fs@idir.net wrote: > Frank Sheeran (fs@idir.net) responded to a message you left > in the Medium Format Digest bboard: > > Subject: Response to Please.... > > 1) WJM, I wonder why you didn't bother following up to the existing > thread on this topic, from Nick: > http://db.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0003cw > With a title like "The 'Subject' line in mail messages" it could > have caught your attention 8-) Of course since your thesis is > that the current system sucks, I'm not suprised you can't be > bothered to use its threading features. <p> Online you mean? No, in Europe we have to pay for even the most local connection, can't afford that, sorry. Definately not with such a slow site. > 2) Any time non-computer professionals have an e-mail-based list, > the S/N ratio drops massively, thanks to huge quotes and huge sigs. > The fact that this system threads for us and doesn't promote quotes > and sigs makes it READABLE. The EOS mailing list I met WJM on > was so clogged with crap I couldn't make time for it. <p> Perhaps it helps other people to understand your problem by mentioning that you refused to use the real time mode at all cost. Normally a sig is at the bottom of a message, but you preferred to see them all over a digest. Your choice. > 3) What is taking you 10 minutes, anyway? In fact, I always have > netscape and ppp running on my Linux box; I can get web pages > immediately but actually have to log in to get mail! <p> Sorry Frank, us poor European have to pay for even the most local connection. What you do on your system is your business, but not extrapolate it to the average user. > 4) How about some constructive comments about the current system? > Would you like the option of selecting your own prefix (MFD or > whatever) for incoming mail? Do you want a mail address to post > to (so you can bury us in your huge sig and quoting)? These > features could be added fairly easily I'm sure. I am not so sure since I asked this long before the chance was made, and repeated that request more than once since. If it had been easy, I am sure it would have been added already. > 5) And lastly, if you can't read mail fast enough to avoid it clogging > your inbox, try the digest version. Filter on sender to put it in > a folder, or just count on 1 mail a day or a week. Trivial. <p> In which case my neverending objections against a digest-only mailinglist rises again: - a pain to read (remember your EOS list Frank?) - a pain to store - a pain to reply And don't start with undigesting software or other crap, not everyone likes to fiddle with homebrew software, and making adjustments for each and every mailinglist. And as for how the old MFD was maintained: editing this thing by hand is of course a workload nightmare of the first order, bordering on torture. But that was a choice too, just as it was a choice to keep it digest-only. None of my dozens other mailinglists is set up this way, and they all keep running, with happy members everywhere....strange eh? Someone else mentioned the requirement of an archive, would I go through with a email based mailinglist. There are stacks of mailinglists out that don't have an archive, and I feel sad for those who think it is an absolute requirement for an active and healthy forum of discussion. I think it is a rather lazy way of providing information....FAQ's and overviews on personal homepages is what makes the Net what it is, not archives. The times someone asked about the existence of an archive for the Infrared Mailinglist can be counted on one hand. And I would still have plenty fingers left for typing. Offline of course. Funny, I replied to Franks message in Pegasus, now I have to copy and paste it, start my oh-so-slow browser, wait ages to get through to the web-forum, start typing my name and address again, find the old thread so that it fits in the famous threading system....oh the wonders of modern technology. Does some of you work for M$ by any chance? Ah, it is even greater fun....don't have the site bookmarked yet....so I now first have to copy and paste the address in the footer, launch my browser, go back to Pegasus, copy and paste again, and finally create a message. Wow. This is one of the most user-unfriendly mailinglists I have ever seen, and I don't think I will see anything worse in my entire life. 'Mailinglist' is way too much honor for this. Why do people keep on reinventing wheels, and end up with square ones?
Re: Please
in Medium Format
Posted
On 10 Oct 97 at 11:43, fs@idir.net wrote:
> Frank Sheeran (fs@idir.net) responded to a message you left
> in the Medium Format Digest bboard:
>
> Subject: Response to Please....
>
> 1) WJM, I wonder why you didn't bother following up to the existing
> thread on this topic, from Nick:
> http://db.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0003cw
> With a title like "The 'Subject' line in mail messages" it could
> have caught your attention 8-) Of course since your thesis is
> that the current system sucks, I'm not suprised you can't be
> bothered to use its threading features. <p>
Online you mean?
No, in Europe we have to pay for even the most local connection,
can't afford that, sorry. Definately not with such a slow site.
> 2) Any time non-computer professionals have an e-mail-based list,
> the S/N ratio drops massively, thanks to huge quotes and huge sigs.
> The fact that this system threads for us and doesn't promote quotes
> and sigs makes it READABLE. The EOS mailing list I met WJM on
> was so clogged with crap I couldn't make time for it. <p>
Perhaps it helps other people to understand your problem by
mentioning that you refused to use the real time mode at all cost.
Normally a sig is at the bottom of a message, but you preferred to
see them all over a digest. Your choice.
> 3) What is taking you 10 minutes, anyway? In fact, I always have
> netscape and ppp running on my Linux box; I can get web pages
> immediately but actually have to log in to get mail! <p>
Sorry Frank, us poor European have to pay for even the most local
connection. What you do on your system is your business, but not
extrapolate it to the average user.
> 4) How about some constructive comments about the current system?
> Would you like the option of selecting your own prefix (MFD or
> whatever) for incoming mail? Do you want a mail address to post
> to (so you can bury us in your huge sig and quoting)? These
> features could be added fairly easily I'm sure.
I am not so sure since I asked this long before the chance was made,
and repeated that request more than once since. If it had been easy,
I am sure it would have been added already.
> 5) And lastly, if you can't read mail fast enough to avoid it clogging
> your inbox, try the digest version. Filter on sender to put it in
> a folder, or just count on 1 mail a day or a week. Trivial. <p>
In which case my neverending objections against a digest-only
mailinglist rises again:
- a pain to read (remember your EOS list Frank?)
- a pain to store
- a pain to reply
And don't start with undigesting software or other crap, not everyone
likes to fiddle with homebrew software, and making adjustments for
each and every mailinglist.
And as for how the old MFD was maintained: editing this thing by
hand is of course a workload nightmare of the first order, bordering
on torture. But that was a choice too, just as it was a choice to
keep it digest-only. None of my dozens other mailinglists is set up
this way, and they all keep running, with happy members
everywhere....strange eh?
Someone else mentioned the requirement of an archive, would I go
through with a email based mailinglist. There are stacks of
mailinglists out that don't have an archive, and I feel sad for those
who think it is an absolute requirement for an active and healthy
forum of discussion. I think it is a rather lazy way of providing
information....FAQ's and overviews on personal homepages is what
makes the Net what it is, not archives.
The times someone asked about the existence of an archive for the
Infrared Mailinglist can be counted on one hand. And I would still
have plenty fingers left for typing. Offline of course.
Funny, I replied to Franks message in Pegasus, now I have to copy and
paste it, start my oh-so-slow browser, wait ages to get through to
the web-forum, start typing my name and address again, find the old
thread so that it fits in the famous threading system....oh the
wonders of modern technology.
Does some of you work for M$ by any chance?
Ah, it is even greater fun....don't have the site bookmarked
yet....so I now first have to copy and paste the address in the
footer, launch my browser, go back to Pegasus, copy and paste again,
and finally create a message. Wow.
This is one of the most user-unfriendly mailinglists I have ever
seen, and I don't think I will see anything worse in my entire life.
'Mailinglist' is way too much honor for this.
Why do people keep on reinventing wheels, and end up with square
ones?