peter_rosenthal

I'm all in favor of using the backs as designed!! This will tell you if you have a problem

with the backs or some other malady caused by mixing film sizes. If it works perfectly, we

know it's the longer, thinner film causing problems. If you still get slackness we know it's

the back needing maintenance.

I just figured you were dead set on using 220! Let me know what you find.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Howard-

Ilford spools are a measurably different diameter than the others. This would/could/may/

possibly take care of the "puffiness" that you describe. A larger diameter would cause

more film to be taken up every frame. Larger frame spacing as well. A smaller diameter

would cause less film to be taken up. It's just a variable that you have control of. You have

precious little control of these sorts of things short of take-up spool size. I hope this

makes sense. The detailed function of Hassy backs is not intuitively understood nor easily

explained. No other film winding function in camera history works like these backs.

A lot can go wrong with these backs. Everything from worn parts to notoriously bad

lubricants can cause all sorts of strange behavior. My guess is that it needs work. The

take-up spool thing is just something you have control of. Try it. It may help.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Howard, et al...

Focus can't be problem, actually. The emulsion of the film, whether it's 120 or 220 sits

against the side rails of the back. This is what determines the film plane. By way of

exaggeration, you could put a thick piece of cardboard behind the film and wouldn't affect

the film plane. The pressure plate only helps hold the film flat AND against the side rails.

The backs are identical in everyway except the winding mechanism and counter assembly.

As far as looseness goes... I'd try using a different take up spool. The film is irrelevant but

the take-up spool isn't. This could also be a mechanical problem with the back. The film

isn't, under any circumstances, supposed to back up in the back. This would explain the

looseness you discribe.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Juan-

The button isn't what needs to be adjusted. An analogy, a fine one too I might add, is

trying to adjust the gas pedal of a car to travel farther because the car doesn't go fast

enough. The mechanism behind it is the problem. The camera, for whatever reason,

has lost it's overlapping tolerance of function. The release mechanism (internal) is not

responding when it's supposed to respond. This could be because of previous repairs,

wear in the mechanism, things like that. My experience tells me that everything needs

to be put back into tolerance. Standard, common repair work for this body. My guess

is that in certain conditions, extreme cold for example, it might stop working entirely.

It's very close to that now. Take it to a repairshop you trust.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Otakar-

IMHO $250 is outrageous!! These backs are simple, well designed, precisely

machined pieces of equipment. In my experience, if the repairman does what he is

supposed to do, the back then does what it is supposed to do. Let's assume for a

moment that the shop charges the absurd price of $100 per hour. This repair will

have taken them 2 1/2 hours. Seems OK until you realize that a qualified repairman

can completely disassemble, and reassemble the back at least twice in this amount of

time. I'd be a little upset if I were you. As far as blaming the body... there is absolutely

no way the body can disable a back. NO WAY. The winding gear turns one revolution,

and the counter release arm sticks out. This is all the body does in relation to the

back. Nothing else.

The repair should have cost no more than $75 buck in my opinion. This isn't rocket

science. You just need to find someone on your side. Not theirs.

Peter Rosenthal

PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

GB-

There are some tests you can run that can determine what the heck is going on with

your camera. In a perfect world this can be determined in a few seconds by your

repairman but the world isn't perfect so here goes.

Put your camera and lens on a tripod and set the lens to it's infinity stop. Look at

something at infinity. I don't mean kinda far away. I mean miles. If everything looks in

focus, take a picture with a cable release with the mirror locked up. If the film comes

back out of focus you can rest assured that the most probable cause is lens is at fault.

If you mount your camera on the tripod and it doesn't look in focus you have three

options. Either the lens is out of adjustment or the screen is out of adjustment or your

eye needs some diopter adjustment. Some might say the mirror may be out but my

experience tells me it isn't LIKELY. Some have stated, and you alluded to it, that foam

or rubber may be at fault. This isn't so. The mirror stop in the EL is hard metal. No

getting around that. The foam that deteriorates is the damping foam around the

screen and it has no effect on focus.

You should take this to a shop and have them look at the focus at the film plane with

this lens. They will then check the screen and mirror angle. There is no way you can

do this. It should be free and only takes seconds with the proper equipment. You

should also check to make sure the screen isn't installed upside down. It happens. It

should be glass side up. My bet is on the lens.

Good luck-

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

I've seen it a lot. Before I go any farther... you, and everyone else for that matter, should

never turn any Hassy keyway, winder or anything else counterclockwise. Ever. Bad things

will happen. I promise.

You can release this without any problem. It takes two hands and a sturdy, stable work

surface. The goal is to put a quarter into the slot and turn the keyway counterclockwise

with just enough movement, almost imperceptable, to push the release pin toward it's

shield. If you can get the release pin to move at all without force, you can release the

tension on the keyway and you're good to go. Just don't ever turn it counterclockwise and

this will never happen. You can keep it like this forever or you can get it repaired so it's

not possible for this to happen, ever. Your call. After the keyway is turning freely, you can

go ahead and rotate it clockwise, the same direction as the arrow, and cock the lens to put

it back on the body.

G'luck-

Peter

PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

In defense of Sanjeev, sort of, I must say that there is a not-so-uncommon problem in

which an uncocked lens gets locked up in exactly the manner stated. The keyway gets

rotated (way too enthusiastically I might add!!) COUNTERCLOCKWISE. Bad dog! This can

lock the keyway in the cocked position but the lens isn't. Nowhere to go. The release pin

must be pushed to release the shaft while releiving the massive tension (MORE

counterclockwise rotation!) on the shaft and all is right with the world again, except for

the fact that the problem is even possible on certain lenses indicates they are out of

adjustment and need work.

I don't know if this is Sanjeev's problem but may very well be. I wouldn't be too hard on

him. Yet.

Peter Rosenthal

PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Dave-

I've always found fungus interesting. Especially since there is no fungus growing within

1000 miles of my house in Arizona. I do see a lot of it however. The fruiting bodies of

fungus can, in perfect conditions, reproduce at the rate of millions per minute. Yikes!

I would have to say that ANY work on your lens should have included fungus removal. It's

impossible to say without looking at it but it could be a relatively simple job to remove

(exterior surfaces of the two main barrels) or increasingly difficult (interior surfaces of lens

elements). Sometimes it can creep onto every surface. This is a big deal. Complete

disassembly of the entire optical train. Especially considering that without the fungus they

would never, ever need to be disassembled.

Water removes fungus and it's waste products perfectly well. The problem is that if it's

been there long enough, it etches the magnesium flouride coating. Longer than that and it

starts to work on the glass. This can take decades. Without warmth and humidity it won't

get worse, fortunately.

"Sharpness" is a subjective term that combines resolution (fungus doesn't affect the nature

of the glass) and contrast (fungus has a profound effect on contrast!). Can't have one

without the other. There are a few mistakes in the link that Richard kindly, and usefully,

included. Contrast goes first and profoundly. It's a lot like shooting through gauze. Let a

lot of light hit it and it's a lot like shining the sun into the front of the lens every shot. Very

bad. It really makes the lens useless IMHO.

You can do without small areas of coating (not desirable certainly) but the fungus will

certainly prevent the lens from performing near where it's capabilities. I'd take it back for

them to clean out. Expect to probably pay something extra as it would have cost you

something extra to begin with as this sort of labor is out of the ordinary if extensive

diassembly is required. Keep in mind when you take equipment in for repair you really

should be paying for performance improvements and not just labor. Imagine the living we

could all make if we charged money but didn't really have improve the lives of clients. I

guess we would all be called doctors or lawyers. But that's a different forum.

I'd take it back (you paid for performance improvements); it does profoundly affect the

contrast of the lens.

Good Luck-

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

As far as leaving the lens cocked goes... from a metallurgical standpoint... It may

shorten the life of the mainspring by a year, maybe. Metallurgicallyspeakingwise

cocking it and firing it over and over again (using it) is much more damaging to the

mainspring. Better for overall function over time, but damaging to springs.

I'd just leave it cocked and rest comfortably with the knowledge that you're using it as

designed.

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff AZ

Oscar-

Your 500C needs some work. The top door should be tucked up to the

mirror during exposure. While it may not interfere with the exposure now, there is a

good chance it will in the future.

Your other problem is a maintainance issue as well. It sounds as if the tolerances in

the mechanism are no longer overlapping. It's typically called a CLA. Clean, lube and

adjust. Nothing serious, just standard, predictable stuff.

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ - 928 779-5263

Leslie-

Since you said that the remaining outdoor exposures checked out OK, we must

assume something is wrong with the flash end of things. The outdoor exposures

prove that all is well mechanically with the shutter. Aperture primarily, although I've

never seen an aperture on a Hassy stop down farther than the dial indicated and, in

fact, is impossible anyway.

You also indicated that the flash could be seen through the aperture during the

exposure. This indicates that the x sync system is working perfectly as well. This is all

that is required by the flash contacts/xdelay and sync cord. "Fire the flash at full

open." It is firing at full open isn't it? If so, the camera is now out of the loop in terms

of troubleshooting. There are no more camera/shutter variables to look at!!

ALL THAT IS LEFT is flash function assuming everything is set correctly. Short of

sending your flash unit off, I would try shooting a roll with another camera whose

function you are sure of. Is this the first roll you've shot with a Hassy with flash? Let

me know. I would like to know what you come up with.

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Ivan and Kevin, et al...

Sand can get into the focus 2 different ways and a filter won't stop it at all! The filter

protects the front element and nothing else. The focus ring... ahhhh... both the front

and the back of the focus ring let sand in. When mounted on a body the front of the

focus ring is the main culprit. One grain can cause real problems. Many cameras with

larger manufacturing tolerances can tolerate some sand but Hassy focus helicals are

very tightly fit and one grain will eat the brass alive! Especially since the helicals are

greasy to begin with.

One useful point... this is not true of all lenses but true for many so on balance it

would be a good idea to keep your lenses focused on infinity (shortest barrel length)

when not shooting. This keeps the greasy helicals mostly covered up. By extending

the barrel you expose LOTS of greasy brass to the elements. Sand gets on them and

then when you focus back down to infinity... yikes! $$$ This is a real thing!!

As far as salt air is concerned... I wouldn't worry at all about intermittant exposure.

Salt water is another issue. $$$ Humidity and sudden temp changes in concert with

each other can be a condensation problem. It's really long term exposure to humidity

and secondarily to salt air that causes problems. Florida shooters will concur. Fungus

is the most immediate danger there.

Good luck!

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Leslie-

If the mirror, or anything else for that matter, gets in the way of the flash during an

exposure, it will show up on your images as a shadow. No way around it! No shadow,

no obstuction (sluggish mirror).

We also have to assume that you have the exposure set correctly for your subject

distance. Of course, f:22 with a small Vivitar flash trying to expose the house across

the street at night will give you no exposure. Just a little more hardware and

exposure info would be useful for us to understand your lack of... well... images. Let

us know!

Peter Rosenthal PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Jim-

Here's an analogy. I know... here we go again with his analogies. I'll keep it short.

Imagine you are at a slide show. Jim raises his hand and says, "The light source is

back here but the image is up there. How can that be? What's up with that?!" Think of

the slot as the lens. Your film is the screen. The ambient light is the light source.

Light comes from the ambient (bulb) through the lens (slot) and gets PROJECTED onto

the screen (far side of film). As in the slide show, there is no image on the side walls

of the room. It goes straight onto the screen, far away.

I'm through now. This is the best I can do. It's pretty good too, if I may say so.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Jim-

Here is a simple but useful diagram to see a slot leak, as I'm sure you are

experiencing. Let us know what you see!! The drawing CAN'T show it but the

darkslide is to hide the light source from your eyes. Think contrast!

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

http://homepage.mac.com/petroffski/filesharing/FileSharing14.html

Be sure to go to the pictures folder...

Jim-

It's definitely a seal problem. It is almost useless to try to outhink a lightleak. I'd just

replace the seals and everything will be well with the world. Looking at the back is

always useful for a 100% diagnosis but playing the odds is OK in this case. 99 out of

100!! It's a staggeringly common problem with a staggeringly simple cure. Looking

elsewhere, while fun and interesting, is a waste of time, IMHO. Exprience tells me that

film can be fogged ANYWHERE on the frame with a bad seal.

Peter - PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Where the film appears damaged has little to do with where the light leak is, actually.

If I may draw an analogy (I know I'm going to regret this somehow)... Where a slide

projector (light source) is located in a room, has little to do with where the image

(projected image) is on a wall. This, coupled with the fact that the images inside your

back are upside-down and backward can damage ones brain in a hurry if you try to

think to hard about this.

I suggest that you replace the old and damaged darkslide seals. A simple solution for

a simple problem!

Good luck!

Peter - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Juan-

The problem with your back is both common and simple. The light seals for the

darkslide slot are shot. The reason it only occurs occasionally or not at all has

everything to do with the speed of your film, the brightness of the ambient light and

most importantly, how long the back was left darkslide-less in the ambient light.

This will happen to EVERY Hassy back eventually. It's just a matter of getting the seals

replaced and won't happen for, if you're lucky, decades after that.

Good Luck!

Peter - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Serge-

The camera certainly needs work. Both doors should be approximately parallel when

in the open position. The offending door will cut off the light to the film. Most likely

the door was pulled up by a user while locked open. This cannot happen by itself with

the LOWER door.

As far as cost goes... very difficult to say precisely. Or even generally for that matter

without a hands-on inspection. It depends on so many factors. Among them: The

condition of the door (does it need to be replaced or just put back into postion), what

else should be done while it's apart, the overall condition of the back, who's doing the

repairs and what their rates are for doing such things. You should take it in to several

reputable shops for estimates. I should say that this problem alone should not

generate a large bill because it is a relatively simple problem. Probably.

Good Luck-

Peter Rosenthal - PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Richard-

Underexposure, or in your case way underexposure, is pretty rare in leaf shutters. It's very easy to explain overexposure but it takes some kind of catastophic failure to underexpose. This would also show up primarily in the slowest speeds if the slow-speed escapement were broken. If the slow speeds sound OK, the escapement is probably OK. After all, a lens shutter can only go so fast.

It's also possible that the aperture, the only other variable here, is bad. Exceedingly rare that the aperture control stops working. Here, again, overexposure is easy to explain but underexposure implies that the ap is closing down farther than the simple and virtually foolproof control wants to let it. I'd look through the back of the camera and shutter at various aps with a single speed to see how it's doing. This is a good simple test.

All this is assuming that your exposures are correct. Just to rule out everything else I'd shoot transparency film (WYSIWYG) at the sunny 16 rule at different aps during the sunny 16 rule time of day and conditions. OR, you could just take it to a local repair shop and have the shutter and ap tested for nothing. Then you'll know what's going on.

My money is on the aperture.

As far as using a computer to test speeds... Leaf shutters are not open and close like a focal plane shutter. They are start open, finish open, open duration, start close and finish close. No sound card can quantify the efficiency of a leaf shutter. It might be fun, but in my opinion, useless. Can a sound card identify where on the opening and closing of a leaf shutter the light curve hits mean open? Nope. Blah blah blah. Sorry, just defending my expensive test equipment from "pretenders".

Let us know what you find. I'm dying to know.

Peter / PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Mark-

The stop for the wind lever is a small lever who's edge rides on the counter disk as the film advances. Magazine insertion activates this lever. When #1 comes up on the counter wheel, the white film flag should show and immediately after, the lever drops down into a notch on the counter wheel. This allows the other end of the lever to fall into a notch (one of many) on the windlever disk and stop the wind lever. After you shoot your first frame and wind the film, the notches and lever are never to be seen again until the next roll.

A very common and predictable problem is that oil congeals on this little low-power spring lever and keeps it from falling into the notch and locking the wind lever. This is why winding REALLY slowly can allow the lever to fall, slowly, into the notch. Until you get the oil removed (the rest of the back should probably be serviced as well while apart) you can just stop winding as the white flag shows. This indicates the first frame is in place and you can shoot!

It has to be rewound before you put it in the magazine as the film is not loaded symmetrically on the paper. 9" from the dead end and 17" or so from the start end. As far as rewinding the film goes... not too easy with 120 if you've come to the end. 220 you can just rewind. On 120 the film is only taped at the start end. I'd try practicing on a dead roll first, in the light. I found taping it on the dead end helps. It works best if kept very tight. If it doesn't come out even at the start end, it can cause problems while going through the magazine. Practice.

Just for the sake of info... and good luck!

Peter / PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

Sylvio--

There are a couple of issues here that need to be explored. Ruling out variables... 1) Remove the lens and look into the VF (on the body). Is the focusing screen sharp or out-of-focus? This will tell you if the problem is most likely in the eye lens of the viewfinder. If it's blurry, then there is something wrong with the short optical train of the viewfinder. No real need to go any further! If the screen is sharp while looking in the VF, then there is something amiss with the lens or mirror or screen of the body. 2) If your pictures are out of focus, put the lens at infinity and shoot something at infinity. This will tell you if the lens is OK.

The viewfinder cannot produce out-of-focus pictures, per se. The lens has to be set at the wrong distance for you to get an out-of-focus image. The infinity test is very telling.

Having said all of this... If this problem shows up with all lenses, then the problem is not with the lenses, simple as that. If this is true, then remove the PME, lens on, and look directly at the focusing screen and examine the image closely, at infinity only, and see if it's sharp. If so, then the problem is in the screen or mirror. Put the PME back on and see if the image goes south. If it does, the PME needs work. Not very much tho. It's too simple for much else.

Peter / PR Camera Repair - Flagstaff, AZ

Trygve-

Just for the sake of accuracy... this is NOT a spring problem. This is a bent door problem. There is a direct drive that powers the doors. The spring-load is designed to give it some flexibility in operation. At one time the door was stuck up and the mirror was brought down on top of it, bending the door. It's a fairly common problem with these older bodies. It certainly needs to be repaired. The reason the door got stuck in the first place is of primary importance, in my mind. The bent door, although it ruins your shots, is only a symptom of more serious malfunctions. Let me know if you need more help.

Peter

PR Camera Repair, Flagstaff, AZ

The problem here is most certainly a problem with the counter disk being out of adjustment. The white flag should show up at exactly, or 1-2 mm film travel before, the same moment as the wind lever stopping. The magazine must be inserted and locked of course.

All frame spacing except the stop point for the first frame (assuming everything is working correctly) is determined by the counter wheel. The counter wheel stops the film from going farther than it should. The first frame stopping point is determined by the wind lever. If the counter wheel attempts to stop the film at the first frame before the wind lever does (which it is unable to do), the film will go farther than it's supposed to. This is what causes the overlap.

Unfortunately this is not a do-it-yourself job. Get the counter adjusted so the white flag corresponds with the wind lever stopping and your overlap will go away. Should probably be serviced as well while it's apart.

Good Luck-

Peter - PR Camera Repair / 111 E. Aspen #1, Flagstaff, AZ 928 779-5263