The Sellers' Lineup

In Kyiv, Ukraine, the country's most European and modern city, the old

and the new collide a little. These are sellers lining a Metro exit, waiting

to sell produce and other things at the site of a major intersection where

there used to be a 'farmers' market' which is being renovated. Your

ratings and critiques are invited and most welcome. If you rate harshly

or very critically, or just wish to add your view, please submit a helpful

and constructive comment. Please share your photographic knowledge

to help improve my photography. Thanks! Enjoy! John

Ok. The crop is so close, that it would be hard to tell that they are sellers, if you did not tell me. The fading faces are interesting, though.

I probably should not named them as sellers, because that only distracts. They are sellers, but it's really irrelevant to the photo, as it is shown (no merchandise, no sales techniques, no customers and no selling atmosphere or devices).

 

So, if I had to do it over again, I would rename it differently, naming them as babushkij (grandmothers) and assuredly they all are, or something of that tenor.

 

The point had nothing to do, anyway, with their selling but with the composition of I hope interesting faces, and the crooked line made by these faces, from front (above horizon) but otherwise 'lower' to slightly higher, then lower (on horizon) then up higher . . . . a jagged line and in the process, each diminishing severely in clarity so that the last one is just barely recognizable as a face at all except by its round shape and more because it's last in a line of faces, so one assumes that it is a face, even if one otherwise could not be sure.

 

In short, this is a one-second exposition of composition of portraits in the street; something I do from time to time and here I like it very much. I may redo it slightly to emphasize the 'darks' more or in other words, just darken it somewhat, but the composition would be entirely unchanged, and same with the message.

 

I always am very interested in your critiques; yours inevitably are 'right on' for which I am thankful when you stop by every time.

 

Thank you (again). Very, very much.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

Thank you for your words. I just said "interesting", but actually I believe that this picture is really iconic, and worth enlarged and displayed on a wall. Maybe in a documentary series.

Now that I am more master of my time, I take a closer look at photos, mostly those posted on photo.net.

It helps improving my aesthetic perception and - hopefully - might improve my photographic abilities a bit.

 

What I notice is that commenting here on photo.net most of the times is according to some sort of "political correctness". Or, alternatively, to leave a positive mark, maybe to encourage reciprocity in viewing and rating.

What sort of a comment is "wow", or "stunning". It is much more difficult to spell out why I do like, or don't like in a photo. And I have the feeling that very, very few people do that here.

 

I'll appreciate your point of view.

Thanks, Luca

John, again, you capture moments of intensity in human nature which impress me. I see elderly women here, struggling against the weather, and who knows what else. In my "pristine" life, I don't see this sort of thing, unless the ladies are gathered in the yard of a nursing facility, which costs them a fortune, and affords them many of the finest of creature comforts. I can't help but remember that this is their way of life, for years past and future. Many thanks for another educational event.

A friend just wrote me his frustration at getting low rates on 'street' photos at which he is very, very, very good, and very professional in post processing as well (none of my slapdash sort of stuff).

 

He complained at getting 3/3 and maybe 4/4 ratings right after posting when he usually gets 5/5s 6/6s and some 7s at least on almost everything (unlike me since I throw everything into the pot)

 

I mentioned your name as an 'honest rater' in my response to him, not even thinking about about any recent exchange but about your general reputation (nothing changes hands - absolutely nothing - in exchange for your views, which are never solicited and always viewed as the 'gold standard' by me here.)

 

So, I wrote to him, if you get a few undeserved 3/3s or 4/4s then consider that the loss of the anonymous raters, and to concentrate on raters whose reputations are respected, such as YOU and others such as RUUD ALBERS (who may rate high but if he withholds a rate when he rates routinely then you have not met his standard), and some others. He may not know some of my more 'regular' critics, but I am sure he is familiar with your ratings/critiques.

 

And of course, I trade nothing - nada - for 'ratings, critiques or views except my photos and my writings (I usually try to be polite and treat those who come here as my guests, and unless they lie or defecate on the carpet they're treated very humanely and with thanks for visiting (and maybe offered a cookie or two and a glass of milk while they're here, figuratively of course) as i do value their opinions generally.

 

Even bad opinions cannot be suppressed, and if they do not tell me directly, I may see it on a blog and would rather have a chance to reply here in my space.

 

I am very pleased that you added what you did; this for me also is 'iconic' but the word 'sellers' still is irrelevant to the photo, and your note reminded me to be more cautious in captioning (as it may have 'set me up for a disappointment' in my more regular viewers' eyes).

 

It's kind of like politics and the idea of 'expectations'.

 

A candidate would rather be in a small venue 'overflowing' than in a large venue half empty even if two times as many showed up at the latter.

 

I don't want viewers clicking hoping to see 'sellers selling' and only see older women, because they have an expectation I haven't met; that is folly.

 

You have high expectations of me, and if my work starts to look crappy and bad, please tap me on the shoulder, give me a nudge, tell me to dislodge that false tooth the secret service gave me and then swallow that cyanide capsule inside for use 'in extremis', because if I start taking lots of bad photos and nothing of real worth, I don't want to be seen as a 'has been' or serious 'loser'.

 

;~))

 

James Bond, I ain't however; I'm really too cowardly for that stuff.

 

I did put down my cameras this summer out of necessity from illness in part from being mistreated by an insurer (not because i was taking crappy photos), and it hurt horribly. They didn't pay a claim properly depriving me of surgery in a timely manner resulting in a two week illness turning into four months.

 

I'm just getting back into my groove.

 

You can thank a countryman for his generosity in helping ensure that happened.

 

Kind acts to me never get forgotten.

 

Your kindness is in your honesty.

 

[i always figured the woman to marry was the one who would tell you that you have bad breath rather than suffer it, and then stick around long enough to help you fix it. Marry THAT GIRL!

 

If my photos get 'bad breath' please let me know (I ain't gonna marry you for telling me!).

 

But I'l be very thankful, even if it hurts.

 

john

 

John (Crosley)

and not a remonstration either.

 

Or maybe you do.

 

These women are being 'normal' in the Western sense (American English) meaning their regular selves, and not in such cold weather, either; as it was in the mid 50s or low '60s (Fahrenheit of course), the other day and even today it was +10 C. but quickly plunged, then rained and the wind came and tonight thunder and lightning as the weather prepares to drop more.

 

These women are 'serious', but 'serious' about life is all they know.

 

Rather than while away and maybe soon die in some geriatric facility where their greatest challenge is to figure out whether they will drink some more Ensure or eat actual food, and also play Parcheesi or cards (if strong enough), these women (1) are not so darn old, most are younger than I by a far sight and (2) a hard life is all they've known and this is a lighter moment at their 'job' which is to sit by the Metro Exit steps all in an ascending row offering their wares -- maybe produce from their garden or a farmer friend, or some cheap chachkas (not Russian) but you know what I mean.

 

Life is different and maybe the point of view plus weathering and often more than a little alcohol; not only the men are drinkers as some other 'older' women (younger than me, but you get the idea) bear-hugged me as I photographed, made suggestive comments, and stunk of vodka.

 

Liz, I have a wonderful, unforgettable time on the streets sometimes, and it's almost indescribable!

 

Vodka is the lingua franca of being 'tough' hereabouts, even for women, I am finding. I formerly had thought it mainly the men, but now I'm quite sure it's just national habit/character (also in Russia) though pivo (beer) is what young people generally drink, maybe because they have real freedom to find a toilet as there are precious few in this country (outside of McDonald's and country filling stations which have sparkling bathrooms, (often stone or brick painted enclosures with open windows and a big pit in the center where one does one's business) but some more modern ones have very 'modern facilities', sell candy bars and sodas as well as gasoline, and although small by Western standards in such business, could be mistaken for a Western filling station.

 

But just down the street, where the long distance bus stops (not at such highfalutin filling stations, there is a pit toilet enclosure, where the women go inside to squat over a hole in the ground and the men go outside to pee against a all, or the bushes, sometimes in groups and sometimes far away if they've got 'shy bladders. (In Russia once the bus driver for three hours refused to make any stop at all for toilet activiies and when he did -- this driver only allowed two minutes and the only available privacy was at the rear of the bus where I did my business in a howling wind, only to find that the tailpipe was spewing exhaust at a high rate like a wind tunnel and I had 'moisture' -- my own -- all over myself. It's a different life, in Russia and Ukraine, and toilets -- and lack thereof -- are first in line to underline the difference. But long distance buses in Russia now have their own toilets sometimes and can be very luxurious with TVs, etc. and for those, no more peeing beside the road. In Ukraine sometimes the driver will stop where there is an actual enclosure (without plumbing) or just by the side of the road (often an open field with nothing to hide behind to do one's business. It's a totally different life than the coddled life of the USA where if one did such a thing he'd be arrested and jailed.)

 

McDonald's brought to Russia and Ukraine not just the hamburger but the clean, working, plumbed, public toilet, something that they deserve real credit for, and have not been recognized for. (oh and the hamburgers here ain't half bad; they're cooked fresh and if one eats the meat and the bun only, a fresh-cooked burger at any local Mickey D's is pretty darn good, unlike in the USA or maybe The Netherlands where they cook them until the meat surrenders and 'gives up the ghost'.

 

Not everything cooked by McDonald's is crap, just in the states.

 

If you have actual customers you can cook and serve 'hot' and 'fresh' and clean, plumbed, public toilets have been a real inducement to sell hamburgers and potatoes to Ukrainians and Russians who are experts on that latter food stuff.

 

Liz, it may just be my photography, too. If you invited me to a 'garden party' (not Rick Nelson), your guests might come out looking like this - who knows? I have ways of seeing things that others seem not to have ;~))

 

For me it's less about 'hardship' than that weathered faces appear to show character (not really, but we observers feel so, as we place special characteristics on the effects of weather, and equate it with a 'hard life', and if you add weathering (they're outdoors 100% of the time during daytime selling hours) to a hard life, then even at younger ages, you get these kind of looks.

 

Or at least I think so.

 

I feel it in my soul, and this is my interpretation.

 

I am grateful for your visits - always.

 

John (Crosley)

 

(all posted photos since Saturday were taken in one afternoon long outing -- you should have a look at my downloads sometime lately -- they're getting real interesting.)

 

jc

I thought you had to see this one.

I don't believe it's posed but I find it absolutely perfect, the top of the marks! Even if the photographer heavily uses Photoshop on his pictures.

What do you think?

lar

I clicked through and also to the portfolio, and I find that it's consistent with the photographer's work in that it's taken at night, and it's clear that he had to tilt his camera (with his lens not being wide enough) to include the 'woman' waiting street side at night (and we know what profession stands by street side at night in high heels). The lines work perfectly, of course, another reason for 'tilting' the horizon, which is keeping with the lack of orientation of a fallen-down drunk.

 

It seems out of the photographer's general genre, though he seems to be versatile, as much of what he photographs is still life, and ancient art works, though he does a good job with modern buildings.

 

It is a rare wonderful photo by a photographer who is 'out of genre' for him, but who knows, maybe he'll be encouraged - PN has almost no Japanese photographers as members.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

John (Crosley)

 

John, many thanks for all the info (some I needed to know - and some I didn't!) about this image. I did get it, actually, just as you described - I don't miss much. I enjoy the discussion, always.

It's not too wonderful to be uninteresting.

 

To be a bore is also a possibility, and that also by definition is uninteresting.

 

If my stories and explanations get too long, anyone can always stop reading, but sometimes my stories and my photos do work together.

 

If you read what I write carefully, you learn these poor women probably cannot to to the toilet without losing their place or for that matter take a holiday for the same reason.

 

Men are different and so are youths.

 

They probably also drink, though I can't say of these particular women for sure, but many of the sellers at the end of the day nearby had alcohol on their breaths as a few bear-hugged me.

 

Russians and Ukrainians often are crazy about things like hand washing which many Americans say they do, but when they are in rest rooms (toilets) and think they are not seen, the vast majority do not.

 

But if you saw their sanitation, you'd understand why they wash hands.

 

I buy meat often from a very older market and often even in summer (always, who's kidding whom?) the meat is kept on a marble counter, unrefrigerated.

 

It often is butchered the same day, but nevertheless in America it could not be sold at all. Other is kept overnight and whether refrigerated is any-one's guess.

 

In summer it can get into the high 90s with humidity and then thunder and lighting, like Southern Canada or the Great Plains.

 

Fish may not even be refrigerated - that is 'packed in ice' as in the USA or France, etc., but may be sold the same way, but refrigeration is more expected.

 

Yet in super-modern and most supermarkets EVERYTHING meat is refrigerated.

 

In the open air or old-style covered market, I never got sick from food poisoning . . .refrigeration was not around until the end of the 19th C. and not in wide use in the USA until the teens of the 20th C. Ancient methods are not always bad if one uses care and knows life expectancy of things.

 

(I did once get sick from something purchased cooked meat in a supermarket - the biggest and fanciest -- so go figure - and very very sick (salmonella I suppose).

 

I guess there were two points: (1) yes, it is a hard life and wearing - often because of very long hours and poor working conditions for women like these; and 2. if they have to endure pain and hardship, it often makes them tougher and better able to keep out of places like nursing homes, which mostly are unavailable, but then long-term hospital stays are quite common I am told. Americans go to nursing homes to die, generally, if not in theory, in practice.

 

I've successfully avoided being hospitalized in Ukraine, but wouldn't look forward to it; many of best doctors went to US and rest of West starting in 1992 just after fall of Soviet Union, drove taxis, got a US license and many have become wealthy and well respected. I was hospitalized once in Russia, treated as a VIP (family connections plus I was a never before seen American) and the whole thing scared me.

 

Expatriate M.D.s left behind many 'holistic' practitioners and those who sell massage on the side to make ends meet, both here and in neighboring Russia -- the so-called 'alternative (and non-scientific) health care providers.

 

Ukrainians (especially men) often die rather early compared to US or Western citizens who despite obesity are living longer and longer.

 

I once dated in Russia (very briefly), the chief cardiologist of Chelyabinsk, a major city in the Urals and basically her job as to see people die . .. . and give massage on the side to make ends meet for her and her two twin daughters.

 

The Soviet's vaunted health care system just fell apart and is a high priority of Putin and Medvedev to put back together again/and similarly in Ukraine unless one has Western insurance and Western doctors at Western pay expectations.

 

(If they think 'American' the fee gets higher and higher and higher . .. . . and they start envisioning Mercedes in the driveway).

 

I guess you did get it, but I hope you were not bored by too much information.

 

Best to you, LIz,

 

John (Crosley)