"To listen well, is as powerful a means of influence as to talk well..." from a Chinese proverb

critiques please...Alain? Gordon? Lex? Mark? MaryBall? Ryan? TMC?

Rajat,

 

You said this photograph is in the documentary category. I will use the title you provided as a way to critique your photograph. I will do that because I do not know the purpose of this photograph.

 

When I think of documentary photography I think of photographs that will be used in a newspaper or a magazine article, or as a way to show what occurred at an event or in some way provides a visual history of something.

 

Both subjects are in sharp focus - I like the warm tones you have used - With the man talking and the girl listening I see why you chose that proverb. I'm not real sure if this is a documentary photograph. It seems to me that you using your photo to illustrate the proverb. That is fine. It is just another area of photography.

 

The girl is at the edge of the photo and facing out of it. That is not real good composition. It is too bad that the girl isn't looking back at the man. It would have made for a much better composition (and I think maybe more interesting). If this was portrait of two people I would want more interaction between the two people, but with documentary photography I think how it illustrates or tells a story might be more important.

 

Good skin tones - Your lighting is very good. The light on his hair helps separate him from the background. She could use some light on her hair. Except for her hair and a bit of his they are well separated from the background. Your background works well to isolate them and keep the viewer's attention on the two of them.

 

I love the position of the man's right hand. It nicely frames his mouth as he talks, but doesn't block his eye. With her chin on her hands and with her eyes apparently closed it certainly looks like she is listening to him and contemplating his words.

 

I am used to critiquing posed or at least somewhat controlled portraits. I can appreciate how difficult this type of photography is and I think you have done a very good job. I don't know if you started with the proverb and went out to make a photograph to illustrate it, or if you started with the photograph and looked for something written to go with it. I'm don't really think it makes any difference - the outcome is the same: A proverb with a very good photograph to illustrate it.

 

Well done,

 

Mark

 

 

Hi Rajat,

 

In terms of the poses of the subjects, I actually like the way the woman is facing the way she is. I may be seeing this incorrectly, but your proverb suggests not only that it is good to have both of these qualities, but that it is better to be a good listener. I see conflict. Neither of the subjects appear to be paying any attention to each other. They are each partaking in their own proverb, with no thoughts on the other's actions. Also, It doesn't look to me that the man is talking. He has a confused look on his face, as if he WANTS to talk, and the left hand supporting the raised right reminds me of my school days when you knew the answer 45 seconds earlier and the teacher just wouldn't call on you. He is struggling to talk, but is being forced to listen.

 

Aesthetically/Technically speaking, I am immediately drawn to the blown highlight of the man's left knee. I also notice that the tops of their heads look as if they are floating above their ears. I like the fine details in the fabric of their garments.

 

Overall, this image definitely provokes thought and discussion. I admire your work on it because I don't think it's something I could capture. I'm trying to escape wedding/portrait mode for a bit (despite my shooting a wedding today!) and see things abstractly. Yesterday I made an "Abstract & Patterns" folder on my portfolio, and I'm forcing myself to fill it!

 

Thanks for sharing this, Rajat! I hope my critique was helpful.

 

--Ryan

The photo appears to involve a conversation between the gentleman present and a third party not visible in the photo.The women seems intently involved in listening to their conversation. I like the bit of mystery this situation sets up. I also like the tight crop which adds a bit of tension as well as some intimacy. I am not sure you needed to try to sway or direct our perceptions with your title, which seems a bit heavy handed.

 

As Lex has mentioned , the mid tones are handled very nicely with good skin detail and shading as well as plenty of detail and pleasing tonality in the clothing. I like your choice of toning which is a nice fit with the textures involved. The highlights are not handled well, unless it was you intention to deliberately blow out all detail in them for some sort of stylistic purpose ? Either way, the result is that my eye is pulled to the empty whiteness of the mans left knee and it becomes difficult to re-engage with the image. The shadow detail is blocked up, as has been mentioned this is a particular problem with both peoples hair. Your PP blackening out of the background is obvious and like the blown highlights serves to pull my eye from the subject which I assume is the opposite of what your intention was. I do not know what the original background was , nonetheless I find in most cases selectively bringing down the exposure of the background and/or selectively softening focus gives a better, or at least more natural result. This is strictly a personal preference but I do not like people plucked out from their environment and dropped into and empty black zone with no context.

For contextual purposes I am uploading three photographs: the original and two of the scene.

scene

"Technical issues: While the overall tonality is appealing, with good gradation in skin tones and fabrics, the photo appears to be excessively contrasty with the two subjects' hair disappearing into the background, and blown, featureless highlights in the light colored trousers and even in the shirt. While this is in itself not enough to dismiss the overall value of the photo, some purists and nitpickers will be unable to move beyond the technical flaws to appreciate the content. To my eye, this is a minor flaw, but other viewers will respond differently."

 

 

I had to crop a bit from the top to hide my own shortcomings. I was unable to get the girl's hair just right. This was the first time I was using Ph. Elements 5 to attempt an extraction -- and its a program which I have just begun using (more than sparingly) in the last few days. You will notice she has short hair in my treated version. The original shows her hair to be longer, falling over her shirt. I decided to blank the strands falling on her back as I found them disharmonious.

 

 

Other than the above, I left the two figures intact. I feel I have been judicious in my manipulation.

"When I think of documentary photography I think of photographs that will be used in a newspaper or a magazine article, or as a way to show what occurred at an event or in some way provides a visual history of something."

 

 

The definition of "documentary photograph" is still something I struggle with. My researches in the past few weeks have yielded the following:

 

 

Film theorist Paul Rotha: “Documentary defines not subject or style, but approach. It justifies the use of every known technical artifice to gain its effect on the spectator.”

 

 

A literal definition of documentary is, simply put, the use of documents as evidence.

 

 

A truthful, objective, usually candid photograph.

 

 

Documentary photography has many purposes: to record, reveal or preserve, to persuade or promote, to analyze or interrogate and to express.

 

 

I have taken Rotha's dictum at face value, subject to my own lack of technical or other expertise. I produce the photograph as an evidentiary document of my ideation. The photograph is 99% truthful, objective and candid. My purpose is to ideate.

"Neither of the subjects appear to be paying any attention to each other. They are each partaking in their own proverb, with no thoughts on the other's actions. Also, It doesn't look to me that the man is talking. He has a confused look on his face, as if he WANTS to talk, and the left hand supporting the raised right reminds me of my school days when you knew the answer 45 seconds earlier and the teacher just wouldn't call on you. He is struggling to talk, but is being forced to listen."

 

 

This photograph was taken about a year back. My recollection of the scene is that he was talking. This friend of mine is very passionate and voluble. I do remember that she had impressed me as a very attentive listener. Our group spent three days together, and all that we did was talk/listen. That said, I must say a re-examination of the photograph suggests yours is a very possible interpretation. Being a wedding/portrait photographer you have had ample opportunity to observe people.

"... do not like people plucked out from their environment and dropped into and empty black zone with no context."

 

 

Accepted without reservation. Gordon, I was there, participating in the intense discussions. Whilst these were ongoing, to the keener participants the environment was the group. The context was the subject under scrutiny. Nothing else mattered to them. And I am not making their topic the basis of my ideation. For my purposes they are symbols.

Thanks for inviting me to give my opinion on this image.

Please allow me to be concise an tell you what I like best and what I like less.

BEST: very good b/W treatment (slightly a little bit to much contrast though), composition, good representation of emotions involved, good framing resulted in getting the people connected. I accept very well your opinion on this image be categorized as documentary.

LESS: your choice of removing the background, even if it has some points of distraction like the flower between the two, I think it is usually best to keep the original.

 

On the overall this is a good photo and serves well the objective of representing the ideas you had.

Keep up the good work you have being making.

Warm regards,

--MAA

I decided to just go for it, give my thoughts, then see what others had to say.

 

All in all, I like the photo. Some of my favorites are those snaps that just capture those otherwise forgotten moments. I find it creates an intimacy with the subject to be invited into moments like this.

 

In general, the photo strikes me as being well exposed. The midtones and highlights are very nice, particularly in how you've captured the texture of their clothing. That said, I would like to see that same level of detail in the darker areas. The blacks, particularly in relation to the sepia tone, are just a little to murky and heavy. Going back to the detail of the fabrics, I would have like that to continue into the darker areas of the photo. I find it to be most distrcting where their hair goes from a warm tone with lots of detail and fades into a swatch of black, sort of melting them into the background. Possibly taking down the contrast some would help here as well.

 

I do think that the crop is very dramatic. I like how it's tight enough to really involve the viewer with them, without any distractions of background or the setting. Of course, I'm a big fan of toned monochrome images, so I certainly agree with the tone, particularly in having using a warmer sepia as it adds a more affectionate feel to it (versus a colder more distant tone).

 

So overall, cool shot. A couple tweaks I see, but you've certainly grabbed a nice moment.

for the detailed critique.

So much has already been said about this photo, theres hardly anything left to be discussed. I almost like everything about this one. Probably one of the very best in your portfolio. Since i donot know much about PS, I am always at awe at the post-processing skills of you guys. imho removing the BG serves this photo well. I like the way the hair merges into the background. Regards

"Neither subjects appear to be paying attention to each other." I would disagree; quite the contrary, they both (the woman in particular) seem intensely caught up in the discussion. And moreover, I feel drawn into the discussion, and the image itself, as well.

 

Technically I think the image is very good--nicely composed and excellent detail.

 

Best regards.

Thanks Nabarun for your comments.

 

And Andrew, thank you for responding so promptly...

I like nearly everything about this shot, especially the timing and emotions, the only very little 'but' here is a bit washed out part of the trousers on the man's left leg. The photo that makes impression, an interesting story about speaking and listening. Compliments and best regards -wm

i see it instantly now that you point it out!

I do not want to go into a critical technical depth but only you my congratulations for this shot successful. It is well treated with the Desaturate, and the subject arise from transmitting sensations to the viewer. It is a perfect picture of the perfect street stolen on the point, what does not recur.

Ciao Paolo

Thank you, Paolo, for your generosity.

I enjoyed the image on its own (especially, with the appealing well-chosen title). I think a blurred background rather than the total black might have been stronger for me. But in all, it's an effective image that presents something more than just a portrait. Actually what I really enjoyed was reading through the critiques and your well-thought out responses with the helpful original photographs. This is the kind of critique thread that teaches those who take the time to read it.

Mark, there's a lot to be learned just by reading the critiques some give on PN... I 'pumped' the initial names from the forums

I feel like I read a nice book on photography; good photograph, thought provoking comments.

And, thanks for the proverb!

...illustrative of how useful PN can be... appreciate your dropping by...

congratulatios, the best comments on your profile. Nice shot. Regards :)