FORMING BODY & SOUL

larger is better

All is done here in the name of the " church" .... ;-))you have a strong eye to find the irony in what people are doing and writing.... I'm not so sure if the church administration will be happy with pottery and ballet lessons being created in their name and ....

 

you are a photographer with a special eye, rules are there to be broken, or not kept or exist....you are a singular story teller...I like that.

 

I look at the L side shadow , looks like a T, with a bird? which looks like nearly a cross, and is compatible for the ad... "Forming body and soul" in the church of poterry and ballet, what a title and a wild find!....

It is quite interesting that of the three new posts you chose to comment on this one. I knew it would be the least liked of the bunch, because it isn't much aesthetically. It's just one of those things that I find culturally fascinating, and I'm glad you do too.

David, be very careful now that you know the code. It's Aramaic yes, but with northern accent, very different from the actual Mel Gibson school with australian accent.

 

 

Who needs stinking aesthetics when there is a message to tell and one has a great subject title to boot? It seems to me that many of your images have a religious twist, or is it twisted religion, to them. Do these things find you or do you find them? Have you ever thought of starting up your own church? Hmmmmm... maybe not a good idea...

I bet you took this photo on the way to your ballet class. If that's a V8 bottle (or jug) they are forming, I'm all for it. Cheers, Micheal

I do enjoy skewering religion. In much of rural America, religion has metastasized into an almost on every corner enterprise. When I was growing up, ministers were ordained and called "Reverend." In my little town, I cannot even begin to tell you how many men and women have proclaimed themselves to be preachers. It's amazing to me to watch how a drywall installer one day becomes a preacher and starts a church the next. And they inevitably get a small following. We had three or four churches start up in our town last year. And this is in a town of 11,000 souls that is already saturated with churches. One of those startups had a number of wealthy Baptists defect and join up. I think it is because by starting up their own church, they can tailor it to their particular crazy interpretations.

 

Oh, and by the way, did I mention I disdain religion? LOL

How did you know? One of these days I'll send you a pic of me in my tutu. When I do, you had better have a case of V8 handy.

While reading the New York Times OP-ED section this morning I read something that caused me to reflect back on this recent image of yours. It is a quote from Karl Marx, "Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes."

 

"Religion is the opium of the people."

Yes, I'm familiar with the quote. I was a poly sci major in college. Poor Obama got slammed bigtime for suggesting that very idea. Of course he threw in guns and xenophobia too. I do tend to agree with it.

Another good find, Dave. I was thinking about Obama's quote, and agree with it as well. Marx's too, of course. Today on the news they said - if true? - that 90% of Catholics attend Sunday mass in the US, compared to only 10% of European Catholics. Makes one think, huh?!

 

One reason may be that most Americans neither trust their government, nor expect much help from it in general. Comparing our social safety net to that of Europe, ours is not only much thinner, but it is full of holes, which one can easily slip through.

 

Not an easy existence for many, so they do want a protector, a friend and father figure they can trust and who will always be there for them.... even if it is just in their imagination. Oh my, getting way too serious here! But, anyway, that's what I love about your images, they always give us food for thought. So take care, my pal, and keep shooting. Barb :)

Well, I like to joke around as much as the next guy, but these are serious times. Obama simply made an astute and truthful comment. But, and this is the saddest thing of all, you cannot do that in this country and be electable. I'm really pissed off at the Clintons right now, but I used to support B.J Bill. Remember when he admitted to smoking mj but not inhaling? What bullshit that was. Same thing with his avoiding the draft. He should have told them he didn't feel like fighting in their stupid war, and resisted, like many of us. But because the American public is so stupid, so gullible, and so prone to worrying about the wrong things, he lied. It's the only way to get elected in this country. The bigger the liar, the better the chances of making it to higher office.

 

And these people that open their pathetic little houses of God, feed the suckers they reel in all the bullshit they can. Why? Job security. In case you haven't noticed, I'm pretty well disgusted with the situation. If I had a friend who claimed to have made a stop somewhere and did it with sniper fire around him, and I found out that it was an incontrovertible lie, I would suspect that friend's integrity forevermore. In this country they elect somebody like that President. Or at least attempt to. Sad, sad, sad.

 

And that's my soapbox speech for today. We coulda been somebody. Yeah, we really coulda. Well, gotta go get some batteries. The dark ages are coming you know.

An interesting shot, Dave -- and, as usual, far better than you give yourself credit for.

 

For a Pentecostal Church of God, this one is surprisingly low key in design and "advertising."

 

Warm regards...

I was venting a bit on the previous comment, so I'll try to tone down my comments. This building is used for a number of different things. They also do Karate lessons and social events. This church is just the latest to pop up in our town. Take care Joe. It is nice to have you checking our my images and helping me to make them better.

I just realize I did not reply to your comment. Yeah, I know the code. but I think you are just faking it in an attempt to get me to reveal more by tricking me into thinking you already know. Nice try, but it won't work. And, by the way, it is the Western dialect, which is totally incomprehensible to the Northern and all other groups. But I can't tell you....

Gunplay and nonsense about all-powerful beings who don't exist and patriotism that centers around war are virtues that must not be questioned, but we San Franciscans are fair targets for mockery as Chardonnay-drinking, academic liberal wing nuts because we prefer to play in hot-tubs, believe in science, and fight for peace. Yep, America the Beautiful.

Re your last sentence, perhaps not for much longer (if it ever was).

 

BTW, because of our previous discussion I was able to realize that while this says one thing to me, it is pretty damn innocuous in terms of message. One could easily take a negative or positive outlook on the scene. I try to think of how I might change that, but really don't know how to. But, at least I'm thinking about that objectivity thing and seeing from the standpoint of an "innocent bystander."

I may have mentioned this somewhere else. I recently saw the documentary Jesus Camp. Interestingly, the filmmakers claim to have tried to maintain a neutral stance in just presenting these Jesus Camps that have sprung up all over the country. I watched it with a group of fellow liberal whackos and we all thought it showed the ridiculousness of these places, even feeling that in some instances it went way over the top.

 

I subsequently read some reviews, some in Christian papers, etc. Many found it a wonderful portrayal of these camps which so importantly teach their own children the value of hating Muslims and becoming warriors for Christ.

 

Yes, I think depending on context and viewer, this photo and many of yours could be taken many different ways. Most photos, of course, can and will. But I think some are (intentionally or not) more objective than others.

 

The point I find some photographers missing is that bringing strong emotions or points of view to a photograph is wonderful and a great start, but those strong emotions and points of view aren't enough. They still have to somehow be incorporated into and expressed by the image itself in order to transfer to the viewer VIA THE PHOTOGRAPH. That was the whole problem with Geoff (from the forum) and his inability to understand the critiques he was getting. He assumed because he and his model FELT relaxed that somehow that automatically got imbued into his photograph. As I said to him, that would make photography very easy. And it ain't.

 

So, to Tamara who commented on Princess, I'd respond by saying that having grandchildren may, indeed, allow her to feel something special from the photograph. I don't doubt it. But I also think that has a lot to do with the fact that she has grandchildren and less to do with how good or effective the photograph itself is. As for the suggestion that your each having grandchildren gives you something special in common that might not be able to be experienced by those who don't have them, I have trouble with those kinds of sentiments even though I know there's likely a certain truth to them. It seems a slippery slope toward solipsism. No one who's not Jewish/black/Christian knows what it's like to be us. And really, no one knows what it's like to be me. I don't know, for some reason that kind of thinking leaves me feeling down and out and a bit cold.

 

For me it boils down to two very different philosophical ways of thinking. There's "I think, therefore I am." And there's "We think, therefore we are." I like to think that The Other plays a significant role in who I am and in what, together, we are.

I guess I'd want to think with you about the difference between making a more direct statement and just showing more of a connection.

 

Of course, should you choose, you might be able to convey, say, disgust for these churches. That would be pretty specific and certainly valid, interesting, and expressive.

 

But you might also want to keep it a little less directed and simply show your own personal connection, even if that connection is one of feeling disconnected. That would be "soul" in the esthetic, not religious, sense. And I think that would communicate through very expressively. Imagine how great it would be to show the kind of soul you know of using as a subject something you think is soulless.

 

Think about it. Some films, paintings, and photos really acutely convey boredom and yet they make compelling photos. (Consider some of those French films with Isabelle Huppert, that masterful combination of sexuality and ennui. Consider Ernest Borgnine in Marty.) They are expressing and transcending boredom so that I feel the boredom but I am not bored.

 

Can you express alienation, if that's what you are feeling? In order to do that you'd have to connect to that alienation in a personal way and connect me to it. I sense that, along with your disapproval for these structures and what they represent and a distaste for them, there is also a fascination and an actual attraction (sorry, I know I'm projecting but I like being politically incorrect now and then) to them. Do you ever work with that side of things? Do you ever find yourself really feeling the irony not just of the places themselves in their contexts but the irony of your own attraction to them, your own fascination that pushes you to see them and to capture them? What would that look like in a photograph?

David, one of your countryman (he is a professor here at one of the universities) once told us on television that religion in the States is "a mile wide and inch deep" Wouldn't that be a explanation for this?

Very interesting thoughts. I made the reference to objectivity by way of thinking what you said. I never thought of myself as objective, because I have such strong emotions about some of these subjects, and somehow thought that the mere fact that I took the image would convey to the viewer my thoughts on the content. So, while this image is still pretty objective to the non vested viewer, I was trying to see how the same basic scene could be used to convey a much more directed message. I'm not saying I want to do it, but it's just like knowing the rules. If you don't know them, you can't break them intelligently. So, I'm trying to think about different way to send a message. Might or might not want to use them once I know them.

 

As far as a fascination with these things, it is without a doubt that I am fascinated. Much like a scientist drawn to a disease he wishes to vanquish. You bet I'm fascinated. And certainly there is a part of me that wishes I were able to embrace the stuff I try to blow up. Who wouldn't want to know that all they had to do was drop dead, and they would have eternal life at the right hand of God Almighty? And who wouldn't find the aura, the pomp, the rituals, the promises, the ceremony, etc. intriguing? So sure, I'm attracted and repulsed at the same time.

 

 

I've never heard that exact expression, but it really sums it up about as nicely as I've ever heard it done. Thanks for that gem.

In a country that does not keep religion and gov't separate I suppose there would be no good reason to keep religion and pottery separate or religion and ballet for that matter.

Indeed, why have any rules and/pr standards? We played "

King of the Hill" when we were kids, and maybe the lessons are more applicable now than then.