black and white: then to now A Judged Being the Judge? 'Eating Kills?'

'Smoking Can Dead Make' it says in German or in English more simply'

Smoking Kills' under the familiar smoking cowboy, and he appears to

be judging the somewhat obese young man chowing down on a rather

large sandwich. Eating kills, also? Is the cowboy smoker judging

harshly the eating habits of this large young man? The photo seems

to say yes. Your ratings and critiques are invited and most

welcome. If you rate harshly or very critically, please submit a

helpful and constructive comment; please share your superior

photographic knowledge to help improve my photography. Thanks!

Enjoy! John

A very instructive item of genre photography...

 

My "critique" is not a genuine one, I just like such city intercourses between advertising and reality...

 

It will be interesting to shot this situation with an eating lady at the place of the suicide eater...

 

The string game is also great.

 

The pulled out heart also.

(Copyright notice as well -- see below)

 

This actually was shot a year or so -- maybe a year -- and was recovered from a bad chip -- it sat in a 'recovery file' until the other day, when I got about reviewing the 'recovered files' from that chip. I got several other 'good ones' from that, which shows the value of not throwing away a chip with unrecoverable files, but of applying special 'recovery' software to them to retrieve those old files. It is a slow process that can take an hour or more and results in huge files on your hard drive, but it can also be worth it.

 

I'll let your observations stand, as they speak for themselves, they're well stated (Except about the 'heart' - where is that? Or are you talking about 'heart disease?')

 

Thanks for taking the time to comment.

 

John (Crosley)

 

This image copyright 2008, John Crosley, all rights reserved.

Two wrongs make a right, do they? The question begs to be asked - which is the lesser of these two evils? A provocative and engaging composition. The story is told in a diagonal pattern and the confusing background of intersecting lines behing the man eating looks like a spider web where our subjects become the victims trapped in their vices.

Your critique is so succinct and right on that I can add nothing.

 

I'll let it stand and adopt it as my own; keeping attribution to you, when it appears, someday, in my presentation 'Photographers: Watch Your Background'.

 

'Two Wrongs Don't Make a Right' Humph. . . . Now why didn't I think of that. . . . in those words of course?

 

Maybe it was too absolutist for me, as eating is not always a 'wrong', as far as I'm concerned, even if an obese person is doing it -- it just makes fine photographic fodder when coupled with a cigarette company icon, cigarette in mouth.

 

Thanks Adan.

 

John (Crosley)

there is a rather obvious upside down heart created by the cable under the "kann Todlich" of the billboard. I think maybe that is what the other poster is referring to. I love this capture. I am glad you found it. thanks for posting.

all the best,

Peter

Thanks!

 

John (Crosley)

 

This photo has been 'rotated' and thus cropped a little bit to trim excess on account of that 'rotation'.

 

If you notice, the sign which forms a substantial basis for this photo, is slightly out of level, a decidedly un-German thing in a country full workers who do things quite 'correctly' -- just listen to them talk: 'We do everything correctly,' many Germans will say, as though they were immune from error.

 

It's the truth; many German workers actually do talk that way, and pride themselves on being 'error-free, as though they somehow are Gods, for in my book only the Godlike can be free of errors -- to err is human, after all.

 

So, the photo's bottom was level with the horizon, but since the photo had to synch with the sign to make it look 'appropriate to the subject' the photo was 'rotated' a little out of level with the horizon to make it more appealing and to make it appear more 'level' if that makes sense.

 

If that seems to be cheating, remember the ancient Greeks, in designing one sort of their columns (I forget whether it was Iambic, Doric or Corinthian) deliberately widened the column center a smidge to make the columns appear to be truly equal in dimension from base to top, even though measurements would show a bulge at the center.

 

That was truth through appearance, rather than by measurement.

 

That is the same principle which guided presentation of this photo -- rotation for purpose of 'truth by appearance' rather than measurement.

 

(I most often know where the level horizon is, and most often can line up a horizontal photo frame with it with great ease -- plus I usually have 'grids' turned on in my photo viewfinder to aid in the process -- a fact I now am rather unconscious of (so much so, I think I'll go check my cameras to see if 'grids' still is turned on, as I really can't remember seeing them turned on . . . .)

 

(Yup, they're turned on in all my cameras.)

 

John (Crosley)

I thought long and hard whether I should comment on any of the above:...1.) the image presented is, as usual, impeccable in its presentation. 2.) I very much like Adan's comments about both men being caught in a spider web of their vices.

3.)The word for word translation of the sign actually says: Smoking may deadly be. 4.) I have never in my long life heard a German worker say that they are infallable, but that they take great pride in their work. and last but not least 5.) It is true, smoking may kill, over eating may kill, in fact, living kills. Back to the image itself: It is simply a typical "John Crosley". Flawless in its execution (talk about infallable), challenging in its often hidden messages, a fascinating statement of the human condition....Bert

I have often heard German workers, especially airlines workers whom I most often come in contact with, telling me that they don't make mistakes (hence infallible). I rejoin that they must be God or God-like, since the rest of us humans make mistakes and ask them 'what if the piece of paper that was written on got blown behind the radiator and the janitor finds it 10 years from now or the reconstruction people? Is it still a sign of infallability?'

 

Yes, they still make such claims. And the ultimate when they make such claims is to ask them about their noted German history . . . . which shuts them up entirely, for good reason.

 

I don't know about a 'John Crosley' . . . I just have an interesting way of 'seeing things' - and making visual 'stories' or 'anecdotes' -- little parables sometimes -- even editorials, as this one.

 

This was found after being lost for over a year, and I'm very happy to have found it; it fits in with the rest of my photography (and apparently raters liked it too, though it is not an excessively popular photo).

 

Best to you, Bert. Thanks for your comment and the nice compliment (no I'm not infallible -- you should see my hundreds of thousands of rejects . . . from my allegedly 'infallible' eyes).

 

It's just that every once in a while, sometimes rarely and sometimes I get on a roll, I produce a photo or a series that resonates with me and also with my audience. It's always a wonderful feeling to connect that way.

 

John (Crosley)

Maybe we should not discuss anything but issues relating to your photography. This I have done on several earlier occasions, and, as is deserving, my comments have always been positive. What else could anyone say about your work. It is simply a 7/7...

I cannot help, however, to make one final (and I promise it is my final) comment about your German Flight Personell, who claim that they make no mistakes: What did you expect: Did you think that the flight attendant (Steward or Stewardess) would say: Oh, yes, we make mistakes all the time..particularly our pilot and co-pilot, those two are an absolute riot, they make so many mistakes. You should see the planes they have cracked up....Come on, John, do not judge an entire people on the comments flight personell makes....

Anyway, to then bring in "their history" is a bit of a cheap shot., since there is no country in the world which can be particularly proud of their past. We have all screwed up and can only hope that coming generations will do better....Greetings... Bert

When systems lose reservations or when a passenger who has been wheelchairbound is refused a wheelchair and left on the floor and told to 'lump it' that he doesn't 'need' a wheelchair (as if they're doctors), or when they lose something like a reservation, they accuse and suggest, nay actually say that it never existed because 'we never make mistakes' is a typical attitude that I have encountered among some personnel.

 

And it's for those I reserve the reductio ad absurdum argument to which you (and we all should) take some umbrage.

 

It's designed to make their arguments that they never make mistakes and their system never makes mistakes be seen in historical perspective and seen for the foolishness it is.

 

I spent substantial time with German students in much of the Hessen area around Margurg/Giessen just over a decade ago, and had wonderful times/these mostly were artistically-inclined people, there was no such attitude, and it should be said that in general, Germans are trained for their work to work extremely competently.

 

But sometimes their rhetorical flourishes exceeed their ability, and that's when I feel the need to prick their ballon (misspelled in English but not German, I think.)

 

Too many times, I've been told 'we don't make mistakes' or 'our system doesn't make mistakes' when confronted with what I know absolutely is a mistake, and the personnel confronting me have no way of coping with that fact other than to make the accusation that I am a liar and inventing the facts I am telling them about and giving my assertions no credence -- all more than a bit irritating -- even infuriating.

 

This is not a blanket indictment of all Germans, but does reflect something about German pride of being 'competent.' I have a number of times given praise to a German worker who has done good work (I don't bitch unless I praise in appropriate times also), only to be met by 'so, I was only doing my job' as though every one were as competent as they, when they had done superlative work.

 

It is not just inability to take a complement, I think, but a feeling that anything less than superb for some is imperfect, when life itself is imperfect.

 

Maybe such rigidity derives from having to determine the agreement of your verb at the end of a sentence when you start the sentence (think about it). That requires greater structure in thinking than in English and other Western languages where the verb is in the center of the sentence and can readily be changed as one's sentence is formed.

 

Just a thought, of course.

 

And this idea of 'we know best' extends to the in-flight meal where where when flying Lufthansa, the flight attendants will absolutely not let me eat my dessert unless I've finished my vegetables.

 

;~)

 

I have spent many happy times in Germanay.

 

And many irritated moments in front of German airlines counters with obdurate personnel who can't think for themselves and can't see their own mistakes, because, as they announce to me, 'we don't make mistakes, we're German'.

 

It's the truth.

 

(But it does not represent the whole country; just a subset and a narrow one at that.)

 

John (Crosley)

Hi, John. I enjoyed this one a lot. Just for the record, the literal rendering of the German is, "To smoke can deadly be." (More idiomatically, "Smoking can be deadly.") The message is the same in any case, however, and the warning does seem to be as appropriate to eating as to smoking.

 

Perhaps if you could have hung around long enough to shoot a smoker sitting there. . . .

 

--Lannie

What a delight to have you back and commenting (after what is apparently a move).

 

Now shooting a smoker there, in this place reserved for smokers would have been like shooting fish in the proverbial barrel.

 

I had to make it more interesting and a little more quizzical, cross my lessons a little and make the smoking (anti-smoking) icon making a comment on the guy who appears to be indulging in a big sandwich, which complements his own corpulence (I might be that guy, but I'm not that corpulent and even if I were, I wouldn't wear shorts to advertise it.)

 

So, this being a 'smoking area' and 'reserved for smokers' getting your foerseen photo would have been easy, but I forewent that photo for something that may have caused some to scratch their heads momentarily (I hope so, at least for some who are not regular followers and thus don't know that I am surely making a point if I'm posting something like this, because they're unfamiliar with my work.)

 

This was a crop, but it was because I was too far away to fill the frame with what I wanted before it went away or my presence would have become apparent and the shot ruined, so I took it and cropped it slightly, but it's the photo I took essentially.

 

And surely it's the photo I foresaw and would have taken if I'd had a slightly longer reach to my lens or been able to sneak closer and not ruin the scene.

 

Lannie,

 

Welcome back.

 

I've missed you!

 

John (Crosley)

Great shot and a big smile!

With regards.

How can we be negative? Well, one thing and that is because my german is better than yours. It says: Smoking may be deadly. If you take another look at your photo I suspect the cowboy has his gun pointed at the eating man's back, in other words who kills? The cowboy with his gun or the man with his sandwich?? LOL

Can you believe this was on an unrecovered chip for a long time until I bought recovery software, then when I recovered it, it sat for a year or more until I reviewed my captures, then decided how to crop it (and that decided how best to understand this photo before presenting it).

 

I do have to understand my own photos before presenting them, you know, and that is not always instantaneous. Sometimes I get 'inklings' when behind the lens and viewfinder, but the 'truth' or the 'meanings' don't always sink in right away, and when jpegs are in a recovery file, and I can only review them one by one, it makes it hard to view them all.

 

I am glad that you enjoyed this one; it's aged, (like fine drink?).

 

John (Crosley)

Once an advertising magazine survey which was quite reliable, judged the value of various brands and the 'Marlboro Man' came out way on top, far away from whatever was second (and I forget now what was second).

 

One day, not long after, one of the male models for the 'Marlboro Man' series from farther back in time got lung cancer and he 'came out' against Marlboro, saying their campaign which he participated in, actually sucked him in too, as well as others, and he apologized for those he sucked in, and made it public that it was Marlboros and those like it which he and others were made to feel attractive by ads which he took money to make, which caused him (not long after) to die.

 

He was making amends.

 

I don't know whether they packed pistols or whether they talked with lisps, since they never spoke that I can recall. They're just often shown riding their horsies through horse belly deep powder snow, high on the Spring range in preparation for bringing those doggies to the summer range where they can fatten up (kind of like this guy on the right, who looks like he's been at it all summer and may have to hibernate pretty quick.

 

My companion points out to me that bears in Russian are called mischki (mischka is singular), and he looks one that's beein having a few salmon and heaps of berries in preparation for a long winter (but then so do I . . . sad to say).

 

But it once again is a long winter where I am now, having left the sunny climes of 70 degree (22 C.) weather.

 

And now it's minus 5C outside. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

 

But not that bad actually, as the sun shone today.

 

From the Mischka of the North and East, who probably had too many ham sandwiches himself (and no gun pointing in his back).

 

Best to you, Ed (and yes, my German's pretty awful, in fact, non-existent).

 

I was so surprised on my first trip to Germany that after wrestling with a phrase book for 45 minutes at a tankstelle (filling station) on the autobahn, at a time long past when many Germans didn't speak English, I figured I was outta luck, until the filling station attendant spoke to me "maken zie tank fuhl?' and then recognized that German wasn't THAT hard.

 

It won't 'dead me make' in any case.

 

;~)

 

John (Crosley)

Man seems to be headed toward self destruction...One of your many great images...Marjorie

I have always liked, even enjoyed this image, but never felt it had any sort of 'greatness' in it.

 

It does tell a good 'story', and I have been told by more than one honest to gosh world class expert that is exactly what many of my best photos do.

 

But Cartier-Bresson, against whom I do measure my work, believed that photos should have 'geometry' as he (somewhat wrongly) termed it - at least if we take the same French word and use it as the English cognate -- 'geometry' in French as he used it, for 'geometry' in English.

 

I am sure that is NOT what he meant, exactly, though his art/painting teacher Andre Lohte was a stickler for the use of 'geometry' in art -- by which I believe he meant the use of composition, and which he meant could partially be achieved by a study of the mathematics of the composition of any particular piece of two dimensional art.

 

So, Cartier-Bresson sucked up the knowledge of Lohte. He shot big game in Africa, but after viewing a photo of native African boys launching a canoe-like boat into what appears to be a lake, spontaneously. It was to Cartier-Bresson, formerly trained in art entirely unposed and therefore, to Cartier-Bresson 'plastic' in the sense that it was an 'ephemeral moment' caught in time -- a moment caught in pliable time frozen forever by the shutter.

 

So, Cartier-Bresson often referred to photography as 'plastic drawing' - in a sense, though he was easily (to me) the world's best at what he did in photography, he never got over that he had not become the artist he dreamed of becoming.

 

He lived an adventurous and itinerant life going worldwide capturing 'plastic moment's' and freezing them with his early camera, then his newly-acquired Leica, until the late '60s when he retired, to pursue drawing and painting until his death about four years ago, at age 94.

 

So, although the above photo does show a strong 'message' and certainly has an 'editorial' viewpoint, and thus is 'worthy' for that alone, I judge my photography as well, by whether it also has some elements of 'geometry' in it -- which is to say that it has some good composition, and in that regard, it do not find it so strong.

 

Now, the composition in this is good enough to show, but not particularly worthy in my book -- the proportions are good enough, but not great -- I had to make do with what I was dealt, and the moment (as you may have read above) was ephemeral, and quickly deconstructed before I could approach closer.

 

Moreover, if I had gotten closer, I might have distracted the eater - there were no others around -- I was surrounded by much empty space, silhouetted by strong daylight, and would have been readily apparent had I gotten any closer.

 

This was in a German airport, and what might have followed might have been an encounter with the 'polizei' at the airport who might have demanded to review my captures, and possibly order me to delete anything all.

 

Finally, after looking back at this particular location (it's still there, I think or something nearly like it), I think I did make the best of its photographic opportunities for composition -- but the opportunities were not strong.

 

I invite you to look at some of my better, more strongly composed 'street' captures which also 'tell stories' and see the difference in both composition and aesthetics.

 

Two come to mind right away (and not just because they're both of 'bums'.

 

One is the bum lying on steps - the entrance to the Kyiv Metro and underground shops --his back arched on cool steps in the heat, and his begging cup still upright, though he is passed out, and on the left, stepping out of frame is the lower frame and attractive legs of a passing girl.

 

The lighting in that b&w photo is spectacular -- side lighting always is my favorite, and this features some of the best lighting I've been able to reproduce.

 

Another is a photo of two homeless men, nearly twins it appears, sleeping end-to-end on a long bench in the Paris Metro beneath the sign St.-Germain-des-Pres which indicates the Metro station.

 

At first blush, it looks as though I just split the photo in two and 'mirrored' the capture, but a look at the sign shows that I did not. I think it is a great photo - one of my best from the standpoint of composition. I knew it would be as I took it, first with one lens which was fogged, then another which had some melted chocolate on it, then just barely squeezing in the shot with a 70~200 f 2.8, with shaking hands in the bitter night's cold.

 

(I take scenics, landscapes, women, nudes, portraits, and whatever else, as well, but seem to do very well in the 'ironic juxtaposition' genre - which is what I think you are telling me.

 

I am telling you in return: 'I can do much better than this - at least aesthetically.)

 

But I'll take your praise; I know it's sincere. I hold my best to a very high standard, even though I sometimes may post some rather mediocre work.

 

I do know what's good - even excellent, and sometimes even 'world class', in the very end, and the best of my best is something I am very proud of.

 

Sometimes it takes a while looking at it and having wonderful critics like you to help me appreciate some of my work.

 

Maybe with time, I'll have a greater appreciation for this photo too.

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with me; I always appreciate a chance to exchange ideas with you, and such observations do help me greatly to evaluate my own work.

 

Thanks again, so much, Marjorie.

 

John (Crosley)