Reevaluation

Comments/suggestions welcome.

In response to a PN friend I've made along the way--you have a point about the amount of energy spent springing from photo to photo, making comments. I agree with you, and here are my thoughts on the matter (which have been covered ad nauseum by others more eloquent than I). When I post a picture, I've usually spent some time either taking it, fixing it, or doing something to it. So, there's an investment of time. When it's posted, I tell myself to let it go and let others comment and rate as they will. This is hard, especially with a photo you like. Thoughtful discussion on a photo is so much more appreciated and useful than a rating. Unfortunately, when photos are put up for critique only, they tend to fade quickly and have a much shorter shelf-life, so to speak. Some of the most creative photographers who check the "Critique Only" button have no one look at or comment on their work, which is a shame. So the "ratings route" is not an end in and of itself, it's just a way of keeping a photo on view for a bit longer. That being said, it's exhausting to do so, and I have mixed feelings about it. Certainly it causes hard feelings for many people. On the flip side, going from photo to photo saying "congratulations" and "great job" also seems a little empty after awhile. But, it's a way of letting others know that you are looking at, are interested in and appreciate their work, realizing that most people spend a lot of time and energy (emotional and physical) on their photos and want others to be as excited and interested in their work as they are. But again, it is a tiring process trying to keep up with all the many photos that flicker across the screen. Like you, I can't keep up with it and it eats into time I don't have. I suppose the worst case scenario is that this process becomes like trick-or-treating, going from door to door, exchanging candy comments and ratings. So, my friend, you've hit upon something important. PN shouldn't be a stressful experience, nor should it detract from the creative process, but unfortunately, I think it does at times. Trying to think through this, my central goals for involvement on PN are: (1) to find interesting, creative people who are learning and growing as I am; (2) to engage in a discussion about ideas and the process itself and not simply the end result; (3) to offer encouragement and be encouraged; (4) to respectfully challenge and be challenged to do better; (5) to acquire new ideas; and (6) to appreciate and enjoy the exceptional work that others produce. When I am truly enjoying myself on PN, it's in the exchange of ideas, so perhaps it's time to push the reset button and reevaluate why I am doing this.

:) we are watching, with rating or not:)) Nice speach.

The work of yours I prefere so far. The eye is a magnetic center of energy in this photo: very strong, creative, captivating. Would have rated with 7/7.

Jeff, IMO the eye is to much centered, have a look on the rule of thirds

Regards

Martin

Well Jeff, you could not explain yourself better. The problem of all photosharing sites are the same: they need an audience and to get that audience sometimes - or to be more fair " most of the times " - the most interesting works do pass completely unnoticed. I am a "comments" guy, not a "ratings" guy, as words are much more important than numbers. PN is a time consuming site....as anyother artsharing site, believe me. Here we can build our circle of "interesting people" and at the end, those are the ones I care most. Sometimes when sneaking at the "photo critique forum" I find another mate whose work deserves my attention. Of course and although I do photography in a selfish way - I do it for myself, not for others - at the moment I share my work, either here or anywhere ( and also in my site where I have a Guest Book ) I want to have comments but most important, I want to know if people were touched by at least one of my captures, as it is for me a way of sharing moods, visions and sometimes our soul. And that touch, cannot be expressed by numbers in anyway, but by words, even if one says that a capture is a completely crap. And if we can exchange experiences and knowledge, it's even much better as unwise is the one that thinks that photography has secrets. The secret of each one's photography, lies in his/her sould and eye. For me, there are no better photographers than others, as we are all different in our way to do and most important, to "live" photography. So....keep up your good work and share it with your friends. Cheers!!!

Wonderful idea! Perfect composition, textures and contrasts. Best regards, Ivana

Hello, Jeff. I stopped here because this image caught my eye (excuse the pun; it actually did not occur to me until I wrote it!). I liked what you captured here, and it made me smile. In my book, if you can elicit any response -- even one as seemingly fleeting as a smile -- you've done well. Then I saw and read your remark, so I thought I'd drop this note. I think we've all been through the frustrations and dilemmas you expressed. I've been on PN only three and a half months, and already I've come across several discussion threads lamenting the anonymous 3/3 sniper who seems to dampen everybody's spirit, and it's been uplifting to observe other members rally to reassure, because that reassurance not only is genuine but bears much validity. I see you've been with PN for a few years, so what follows mostly is directed at other PN "newbies" who might swing by and might be wrestling with this same artistic frustration. The sooner all of us ignore the 3/3 guy/gal(s) and not be discouraged by the perfunctory comment (most folks want to acknowledge, but probably don't have the time), and instead focus on those who stop to give us the time of day, the easier it will be to benefit from the vast resoures of PN. I try to compose more than just a "nice shot" or "love it" note when I choose to comment. Yes, I've been guilty of being brief in response to a single image, but often it's in situations when I've come across the photo late in the game -- well after others have gotten there and said everything I would have said. If the image in those situations is quite spectacular, I'll still want to acknowledge the artistry, so I'll "check in" and be brief about it. However, I always go beyond the perfunctory when it comes to remarking on a photographer's portfolio because I appreciate the effort shooters invest in their body of work; encapsuling one's full response in a "nice portfolio" under scores of photographic images seems hollow and insensitive -- even obligatory -- and I don't feel that's fair. But maybe that's just me. Finally, remember, too, that some people may be artists with the camera, but less so with the written word. They mean well, but struggle to find the right words. To them, that is far more difficult than working with their camera and editing software. I think the vast majority of us on PN want to do what we can to encourage each other. We want others to know we're paying attention. Keep up the fine work!

I, for one, have partaken of and witnessed over and over again your generous critiques. I say "generous" because I do feel that you take that extra bit of energy not only to look and appreciate but to try to put into words your genuine reactions. You always seem to honor what you feel is the best intention of the photographer and not be too invested in what you would have done or seen yourself. I think that's a wonderful way to go about critiquing. I am probably a little more critical than you, always trying to honor what I think the photographer was after but often making suggestions as to how I think he or she might better have gotten there. I try to stick to that method of critique as opposed to suggesting they do something in order to "see it my way." While the pats on the back, the "congrats" you talk about do show at least that someone has taken the time to look, they get hollow fast, which is why comments like yours, even when brief, are so much more gratifying. I agree completely about the rating system and use it to get exposure, not because the numbers mean much. It basically seems like most of us are down simply to giving out 6s and 7s with the possibility of a 5 when we really think something is off. That alone makes the ratings system pretty useless. It's the comments I look forward to. Perhaps because I do a lot of critiquing myself, I usually get a fair amount of comments on my work (as I notice you do) and love sharing thoughts with people and hearing people's reactions to my work. I do notice that many people post a lot more photos than I do, and regret that I don't always have the time to comment on each one, but I try to cover at least one photo per each of my "interesting people" a day. Recently, I posted a photo (which I happen to like a lot) which attracted unusually little attention. As you have said, by the time I post something I'm usually quite happy with it, so even negative comments will be appreciated and there's always the chance I will learn something from them, if not about my work surely about the person making them--and getting to know other photographers and people in general is as important to me as hearing about my own stuff. So I was disappointed that the regular group of people I hear from chose to keep silent instead of offering even negative comments. I actually have enjoyed and gotten more out of some of the negative reactions I've gotten over the years than the positive ones, especially if I am content with my work and not always second-guessing it. So, on to your current photo. When I first saw it, I thought, how wonderful, it goes along so well with the elephant eye that you just posted, only this time it's a knot appearing as an eye in a piece of wood. Brilliant. So I was a little disappointed when I opened it and saw that it was a human eye. It lost some of its impact. However, in context of your accompanying text, it makes a lot of sense to me and works well and the photo feels like an even more personal statement than your words themselves. I feel vulnerability from this image, some questioning, and just a little cleverness. For me, it's not the type of photo (as all surely must not be) to which the rule of 3rds would apply. Thanks so much for your candor and honesty here. --Fred

I had no idea of what would follow when a colleague showed me his work on PN and after looking at part of my work,suggested that I should participate here.He has studied Art and teaches it at school,and I am only self taught in photography and lead a completely different routine life.He is younger,his eyesight is excellent,mine is not.My days are a chase upon catching up lost sleep.This is to justify why I do not participate so heavily in comments or forums.Jeff,I see that you have posted this only for critique and I somehow regret if I forced you in a way to do that.You are completely right in saying that ratings give an image more time in PN,and of course,if they are really successful,they appear in the Top Photos for a very long time.I really hope that in a couple of weeks my job will permit more time on PN, more ideas for new photographs and,given a good optician,my reading on screen could improve.Fred has a talent in commenting and he is the first who asked me to write a backstory and I appreciate that.Jeff,your suggestions are kept in mind and I am positive about them.Bear in mind that I am frank in every single word I write here and despite lack of time,I am here to look at your work,as I do for few people here,and I am willing to participate in commenting few people's photos and ideas.Despite our tendancy to be egoistic,I admire your devotion and your concern.But that might be enough for one day.Life and time is eternal,although I feel that I am just a passer-by,or should I say passenger in an endless voyage,in a spaceship that wanders in universe,searching for new experiences in an endless game of discovering and exploring?

You are a gentleman--and a very fine photographer, I might add--but that's rather secondary to my point. To be honest with you, I've battled the same things you pointed out. I started out just posting pictures and spitting in the wind, so to speak, but I found that some pictures would make it to the Critique forum, generate a smattering of 3s and 4s, and an occasional 5, then disappear like the sun on a cloudy day. This was quite frustrating, especially with images you like. Then, I discovered that there really is a trick to this site--you have to make yourself visible. There are hundreds of thousands of photographers, and if you don't show up on the comments section, you will remain anonymous. I also found that it mattered that you had something substantive to say, as more than a few people have told me they were drawn to my site by my "insightful" comments.

 

Yet, one must walk a fine line between just following the crowd and yelling "fantastic" on the "top photos" and being honest with one's self. It's not that easy. There are a lot of photographers who are very generous raters and commenters, but whose work I either do not fully get, or do not fully appreciate. I accept that fact, and try the best I can to honestly give them my opinion. Michael Meneklis is a great example. A fine photographer, but a bit esoteric for me. So, I made my peace with myself to comment on a scant few of his works. Antanas Szdas is another one. He is always one of the first to comment on my work, but I find his style a bit eccebntric for me. So, I comment on or rate few of his pictures, even though I truly appreciate his support.

 

Then, there are those everday pluggers I truly like as people and whose work I try to keep up with, if only to encourage them to keep at it. Some of them are Ademara A, Sarah Cote, Margaret Woodall, and Adan Wong. I try to devote a good amount of my time encouraging these sincere photographers, as they occasionally improve with time. I take pride in the fact I followed Lesa Jones and Sheryl W and Adan Wong and Johanna Julia Vilja and D Munteau and Peter Welsh when they began on pnet.

 

There is yet another group whose work I find engaging from a converastional viewpoint--Jan Piller, David Meyer, yourself, and Jack McRitchie.

 

To all these separate groups, I have different things to say. Yet, some photographers' work are such that there really is not much more you can say than "Wow". Perhaps it is the nature of their subject matter, perhaps it is in their execution, but there is really not much more I say to Julio Seguro Carmona's birds or sunsets, for instance, or Rakesh Syal's or Kaushik Chatterjee's portraits, or Miguel Lasa's ospreys or Elena Kalis's color plates than "wow". What else can you say?

 

So, my commentary style is the same as my photography: One size does not fit all.

j/k. I always appreciate your insights Jeff. I enjoy the works of many photographers here,and frankly, can't keep up with the sheer qauntity no matter how hard I try. So I usually keep my comments short. I hope they all know how much I've learned from their works(including you) and always appreciate the time it takes to throw me some of that "candy".

 

As for this photo, I'd prefer if it was offcentered it a bit more. Clever idea and very nice details!

Jeff, I appreciate the fact that you're bringing this up. I don't know how I ever found your portfolio, but I'm greatful that I did. I saw this posting today at work and I thought about it a lot today. I wanted to take the time to get some thoughts together before I posted anything. As you know I'm new to PN, I've been discouraged many times in the short time that I've posted as well. I have quite an emotional attachment to a lot of what I post. I try to limit my posting as a result. There are times when I feel like I sould put something out there every day and then I get little or no feedback by either ratings or, more importantly, critiques. So, this "Reevaluation", I think describes a lot of what I go through everytime I hit the confirm button. As I mentioned, I have some kind of emotional attachment to everything I put out there (I know what it really means), I hope others get it as well. The main reason I do anything on this site is so I can grow creatively. I enjoy giving feeback, even if I might not know much about photography I might learn something in return as a result and that's what this thing is all about. I appreciate the time you've spent on my work as well. You are invaluable to me!!! Whenever I saw a comment from you on my "Tulip in the mist II", you said "This shot is a leap forward", I have you as well as others to thank for it. You've taken the time and helped me understand some basic things I need to really help me challenge myself creatively by your feedback, your encouragement and by your postings. I learn and grow from all of this and for that I'm greatful. All the best, Bob

Thank you Jeff for being there and supporting my work. I consider it a privilege to count you in my close circle of friends and critics along with many others here at PN. It's interesting to see how this post took a life of its own and evolved into an engaging discussion. You have stated some valid points and I agree with them. Ok - let's talk about this picture - It is intriguing. It makes me think and ask if this is a child or and adult. Why? because the interpretation of what is seen will be different depending on whose eye it is coming from. What is this person looking at? It's the capture of an anonymous spectator and I guess that can serve as a metaphor for our society's insatiable curiosity for the lives of others, especially celebrities. A great piece of work is thought provoking and this is no exception. So let me ask you, what made you take this picture and titled it "Reevaluation"?

Adan, This is a child's eye, but could be anyone's eye. It's an eye looking "through" something instead of "at" something. This was a photo intended to spark an interesting conversation, which it has. Thanks all for great, thoughtful comments. So, let's return to taking pictures!

Hi... Very interesting composition, best regards.

I like the composition and idea, great details and tones, Jeff.Keep taking pictures.

 

Regards

 

 

Excellent work Jeff.Perfect detail & composition.Very nice BW color tone.Cordiale regards - Janusz.

Brilliant idea, beautifully executed. I love this amalgamation of a human with nature, again I am questionning what he is seeing and thinking.

Excellent.

 

Jeff,

 

This is a fun image, but does not completely excite me for some reason. Per above, I might like it more if the eye were not on center, maybe use the deep line below it as the bow of a cheek and put it off center to the right of the photo and thus place it on the anatomical left. I like the idea of the viewer looking at this as if to complete the face behind the wood and for that reason might try pushing it off center.

 

Your post was spot on and should be offered for all p.n participants as extra credit reading. Keeping a civil, nurturing, challenging, and fun environment is not easy but it's what we're trying to do, no?

 

Cheers,

 

Jay

 

 

i love the feature on pn that shows random images on an artist's space. i had not seen this one before, and i am glad to have found it. i love the eye peeping through the board, and the way it seems to actually be part of the background. how many times have i wished to be an invisible fly on the wall, or eye in the board. cool image Jeff!

Jay: I had to center it to amplify the paranoia. Off-center is always better, but less intense. This is my daughter's eye, by the way. I never thought of the wood itself as being similar to a face, though. Neat idea.

 

 

Linda: Yikes. My PN time has evaporated. Looking at all these LONG posts in 2007 makes me realize how little time I have now. Does it change when the kids get older? Anyhow, this is Gabi age two, now age four, still with that intense "I know more than you think I know" look to her.

A very creative and pleasing image Jeff, reminds me of a Whale. I agree with your sentiments regarding number ratings, I just dont see the point of it, also, been able to rate anom leaves it open to abuse. Cheers, Tim.

It seems you've created a wonderful exchange here, Jeff. I agree with all that has been said, and I think Fred pretty well described you and your extraordinary commitment and contribution to PN. But I have to disagree with you......I can't think of anyone who has expressed these ideas more eloquently (You should submit them to a forum). Without complaining about the 3/3 guys or belly-aching about the system, you have very simply and concisely pointed out the problems and/or challenges inherent in being actively involved with this extraordinary website. It is frustrating at times.......I think many of us wish we could do more, but you certainly do more than most of us.......your insights and thought-provoking images and comments make this a better site for all of us. I for one hope you'll be around a long time! Oh, I almost forgot.....the image I like too......a little eerie but very well done.

Tim: Agreed that the rating system doesn't make sense. Truth be told, some pictures are good and some are not. But the rating doesn't reflect truth.

 

 

Christal: I'm quite humbled by your comment. How I wish I had more time to write lengthy reviews like some of my PN friends do. And I'm always so taken when someone writes a genuine comment on my work. It's always a pleasure to cross paths with you. Thanks.