Mating Rituals

Mating Rituals, street photograph, is self-explanatory. Special

Mention to any rater and/or commentator who guesses the city in

which this was taken and another Special Mention to the rater and/or

commentator who guesses the year this was taken. Your ratings and

comments are invited and most welcome. (If you rate harshly or very

negatively, please submit a helpful and constructive comment/Please

share your superior knowledge to help improve my photography).

Thanks! Enjoy! John

If you do, you'll get a Special Mention if you place your correct answer in these comments. Same about the year, and even the closest year will get a Special Mention, sometime after 10 days, if a correct answer is not submitted.

 

Thanks.

 

Enjoy scratching your heads. It should be easy for some of you.

 

John

The pave is typical from European cities. For sure it's not in Italy because of the fire estinguishers, I don't recall any of those around in Italy.

 

The trash bins... the numbers on the roads call out for France... but that road looks so typical italian...

A bit tighter around the couple? TOKI is a bit distraacting me, and one could crop is, still retaining the interesting aspect of the passerbys watching the couple (even though I suspect they were watching you...)

Interesting comment.

 

What you call 'fire extinguishers' are really 'standpipes' -- in reality connections to a city water supply so firemen (now known 'politically correctly' in the United States as 'fire people or firepersons' to eliminate 'gender bias') can connect their hoses and get a steady supply of water -- after all a fire truck cannot carry much water and it soon is exhausted.

 

Whether or not the 'standpipes' against the building wall are something you have seen in Italy, rest assured there are such things in your country. Otherwise any time there is a fire, an entire neighborhood or city would burn down.

 

(For clarity, those are cement or 'concrete' 'accents' that act as stools, that the couple are seated on.

 

So, you think it is France based on the presence of firefighting equipment and you think the Italians aren't ready for firefighting? I think you reasoning probably overlooks something that exists, at least in modern neighborhoods, and this certainly looks modern to me, or at least it's not, say, baroque.

 

It DOES have a European street sign, though, doesn't it, although such signs are increasingly common in America, as they've become universal, and also the stone and/or brick paving has become almost universal in city center (centre) mall-like areas, even in the United States.

 

Too bad one can't read the language below it as it's Out of Focus (OOF).

 

You're in consideration, (or not, we'll see, but not an instant winner, for sure).

 

John ;-))

FWIW, the rim around the street sign might be french. Those stanpipes are also used in France.

I have been accused in my 'single photo folder' of being too subject specific as opposed to this Early B&W folder where I am intentionally 'context specific' - which is what street photos are.

 

If I were to crop tighter, an important compositional element of the photograph would be destroyed; but if you didn't notice, you would easily be excused because it's hardly apparent.

 

You see, this photo has several themes and one of them is crosses or squares.

 

One of them is the barely visible 'street' crossing that occurs when the outline of the leftover 'street' behind the couple intersects with what remains of the street/walkway on which the pedestrians are walking. It's hardly noticeable, but it's an important compositional element, and it requires that it be surrounded by sufficient space on each side to set it off.

 

The second square/cross is the couple themself (itself). They are rather a complicated figure.

 

If one draws an outline around their outermost points, then one ends up with a square. However, their arms and legs are intertwined -- 'crossing' as it were, and I view this photo compositionally, as very subtly one in which there are two 'crossings' one for the road and one for the couple.

 

I've often wondered why this photo attracted me since it seems so banal, but it always has haunted me, and I can't disregard it, and now (because of your comment) I think finally I have understood its composition.

 

Anyone else feel free to kick in, or tell me my analysis is a 'crock' or whatever.

 

Since this is a 'street' photo, the 'Toki' sign has to stay in, and its saving grace is that I didn't cut the sign into pieces so it reads as a whole, uncut with all the letters uncropped and readable as a whole, which one must do when taking photos of whole words in 'street' settings.

 

I hope that helps explain the 'in the viewfinder' composition decision, and why I just didn't crop the heck out of this. I suppose it would be a strong photo with the shop cropped out, also, though, and I do thank you for your comment, for it has opened my eyes, and caused me finally to articulate my reasons for posting this particular photo.

 

Thanks Again.

 

John

FWIW--The Standpipes are used in France, for sure -- but also, I recall in other countries. The ring around the sign -- actually the sign itself is the ring. It is a universal sign that conforms to the universal street sign convention and has been adopted by almost all countries, and has the force of law in all European countries that I can think of -- at least in Western Europe.

 

Can you be more specific -- you might have a clue and a point to make if you look closely enough?

 

;-))

 

John

I see it! They are a + and another + is the street... now that you say it, I cannot not see it!

John, I know since a few years what that sign means. What I meant in my post is that in France one adds a small white rim around the red one, before either (1) encasing everything into a metal circle which connects to the pole and holds everything or (2) sticking everything directly onto the pole. In other European countries, despite of standardisation, there is no small white rim around the red one.

Believe it or not, it was your cropping comment that caused me to have to defend my decision NOT to crop this photo, and in doing so, I had to look at it carefully.

 

Instead of just intuitively 'understanding' it as I do when I view a situation through a viewfinder as I so often do, your cropping comment forced me to analyze WHY this photo prevented me from such a crop. Now I know it's not a perfect photo -- few 'street photos' are, but it's more subtle and more subtly workmanlike than the casual observer may give it credit for because of that not easily-analyzed compositional element.

 

Thanks for pushing me a little. I like that.

 

It's what critique is all about. Either you help me improve my image as many have done, or you cause me to defend my image, and in doing so, I learn to articulate WHY, I saw it, why I had it printed, and why I posted it and why it still persists as one of those photos I rank highly in my personal portfolio, even though it is far from a standout -- it's just a subtle photo.

 

John

Your post and illustration made your point very well about the sign. One can probably assume that this photo, then, was taken in France.

 

Well, that's a very large country.

 

Now what city did you say it was taken in, or village?

 

Come on now . . . PN has a very large audience, and someone in PN's vast audience and viewership must have walked past this very scene.

 

Thanks for your contribution(s).

 

;-))

 

John

Another reason for NOT CROPPING out the TOKI sign is for reasons of balance.

 

The couple forms a mass in the lower left of the photo and that causes the eye to move to the lower left. The eye (if it hasn't already), then moves to the two men caught in mid-stride in the middle of the intersection of the two walk(road)ways on this mall-like area. The shop window and 'TOKI' sign add balance to this composition, balancing out in the upper right, the couple's 'weight' from the lower left -- at least that's the way I see it.

 

Any other thoughts? Or is this overanalyzing?

 

John

The trash bins should give you an idea of dating the photo. The plastic trash bags hanging from them are black or they are rigid and black. As I recall, in France (if this is France), they replaced black bags with transparent bags as a result of terrorism after 9-11, but maybe they've changed them back now.

 

After all British Airways has changed back to serving their meals with 'real' metal cutlery instead of that plastic stuff they resorted to after the quadruple 9-11 hijackings -- because cockpit doors now are reinforced heavily and there are 'sky marshalls' present in international flights. (This may not apply to flights to the US which may prohibit metal cutlery . . . let me know).

 

John

I havent got a clue on what year this was taken..his hair is a bit long which makes me think 80's even 90's. I also havent got a clue as to what city. I havent been out of the US except for Central America and this doesnt look like the central america I saw. They didnt have cobblestones..they had dirt. lots of dirt and giant craters they called pot holes.

 

I like the movement of of the people in the background as if time stopped for those two and kept going for the rest of us.

Your comment 'As if time had stopped for this couple' as the world moved on is my paraphrase of your very apt summary of this photo.

 

As noted above, I have a very steady hand, and this was a 'normal' lens, hand-held at night under street lighting. How I got that 'steady hand' I'll never know, but I've been taking nighttime and indoors photos since I got my first Nikon (actually my first camera) and a 'fast' (read f 2.0 at first) lens.

 

Blur effects occur regularly in my folders, and especially in night shots are very telling. You'll find another one in my single photo folder -- a photo of a skateboarder - beggar in Bangkok, almost still while traffic is blurred around him. Another in the same folder from early postings is a sandblaster.

 

VR (vibration reduction) or IS (image stabilized) lenses encourage 'blur' subjects, as they allow hand holding a lens under nighttime 'lights' at a slow enough shutter speed while at the same time keeping subjects sharp while allowing movement to occur in various ancillary images in the background or elsewhere in the image.

 

I love your comment; it shows great insight.

 

John

Nobody has guessed more than that this country probably is France and somebody has guessed the 20-year span from the 80s through the 90s based solely on hair length (never watched a porno film apparently).

 

The point of this post and the question raised was not to 'play a game' but to make a point.

 

The point was about the universality of this photo -- that this photo could have been taken anywhere in any of numerous countries in any of numerous decades.

 

In fact, it's the universality of the scene and its overall banality that is the point of the photo, rather than some overriding obscure or instantly-recognizable location.

 

In other words, the point of the questions in the posting was NOT to elicit an answer but to show that the answers, though findable through the photo, were not the real answers and that the real answer is that this photo is a photo about universality; a boy and a girl on a warm night consumed by each other as others pass by and notice, but themselves unnoticing others (or even the process of themselves being photographed).

 

So, while I'm still interested in anyone who can pinpoint the location, (as there is some gamesmanship in me) as well as the time (same reason) the point of the photo has been made.

 

Cropping suggestions have been made, its composition discussed at length, and Knicki?!?'s remark about blur effects illustrating time's passage, have added to a general understanding of this photo.

 

The final point is that this photo is, for all the above, universal (at least in the developed world).

 

John

 

That being said, however, where was it taken, and when? Does anybody know. Special mention to the winner(s).

 

J

John, I have to laugh at your porn comment..too true.

 

I look forward to one day finding out where this is. I was going to attempt a bit of detective work but stopped at Toki (many many tokis from eye wear to martial arts to akitas to food) I've had a rough day (working with middle school aged young people will do that to you) so, I'm going to be lazy and wait for someone to fill in the blanks for me.

John, probably we used to look at different porn movies (I was mostly on italian productions), although I've been a big voyeur in the 80's, expecially before I turned 18.

 

About the photo itself, I think you went to deep analyzing... if I can be sincere, the street light above the couple distracts me too much and that Toki stuff doesn't lead my eye back on the diagonal of the image.

 

I don't know how the rest of the scene was, but probably I would have chosen a vertical crop.

 

Don't think too much, John, sometimes our gut feelings are right from the first momemt, although we cannot really explain why... and this makes life, IMHO, much more interesting.

 

You went through some kind of vivisection for your photo, and how it usually happens for living beings, after being dissected, they are dead. I tried myself in the past to go through these kind of dissection of my own photographs, and at the best it has been a waste of time.

 

I won't do any claim about universality. You like the picture, that is enough. You don't need to find a reason for it.

 

Best Regards,

 

bruno (trematore)

Thanks for the treatise on vivisection.

 

I never (make that read 'seldom') in the past have gone into such 'vivisection' of my photos, only enjoying them and being drawn to one or another (and in the past paying good money to have them printed show quality), and so I have been drawn to the question of 'why?' was I drawn so, when, as in the case of a photo like this, it's not so apparent. . . hence the vivisection.

 

But the truth is, I like it anyway, and wouldn't crop or change it, even for a vertical crop, although I might have composed it differently if I were back at the scene, (wherever that is or was in whatever year/decade). Maybe now the 'Toki' sign is gone or less prominent.

 

I'm glad to see you browse my portfolio from time to time.

 

John

The Answer, for those patient enough to continue browsing.

 

The Place: Strasbourg, France, in a former city street/square converted to a shopping mall.

 

The year: About 1986-87 in the summer. One of a very few frames I took with one of my many collector cameras that year, another being the photo of the 'Looking for Lost Beauty -- Coiffure d'Alberto' also on display in this folder.