Pemi River Sunrise

Love this scene, but have had difficulty getting the colors right. Comments/

advice is appreciated.

Hi John, I'm staring at this sunrise and reflecting on my own experiences with similar scenes, and to be honest, fixing the color/contrast is a technical exercise which is extremely difficult without a strong companion composition, and that may explain your difficulty in getting the colors right. I think raising this picture to the next level requires an alternate composition, and there's gotta be one in there somewhere - this is often a fruitless struggle for me, particularly with complex scenes such as what you have here.

 

My experience has been that a solid composition opens a wide range of manipulation options not otherwise available. Colors, cropping, toning, all become obvious in their own way, making post-processing decisions all the more fluid. This is the reason why I attempt to weigh heavily on compositional aesthetics in my own photography; the attachment as an example, all the manipulation in the world will at best, produce a beautifully bland picture.

 

Sorry I can't be more specific, and do accept my candid comment in the spirit of friendly discussion, John. :-)

I am not going to totally disagree with you Michael, but I'm not going to agree wholeheartedly either.

 

I truly like this shot compositionally. I shot over 100 digital shots and two rolls of film at this spot, so I have a fair number of alternate compositions for companions. My folder here contains another shot at noon time from a different day if you would like a comparison.

 

Rather than a compositional problem I would say that my shot is lacking a good, exciting light source. You are right that composition cannot be ignored, it is the reason Nikon and Canon need us to make a superior photo. We could also take 10 people and have each of them choose their favorite composition from the 100 or so that I shot and come away with ten different favorite compositions.

 

Here I got a subject, the river with the rocks protruding (I would have liked a stronger water flow), a good background with Autumn colors, twin mountain peaks and a good sky with a few clouds and some sunrise color, but the magic light of sunrise never materialized to make this whole thing work.

 

I want to try to create that magic on the computer and am failing miserably so far.

 

As you stated you can do all the color, cropping, toning in the world and still end up with a bland picture. My hunt is for a way to make that photo pop and I have a long way to go, so I truly appreciate your thoughtful comments and suggestions.

 

After I find a way to fix the light, then I may well have to seek alternate compositions, because there is no way to ever be satisfied with my own photo and keep the desire to keep taking photos.

 

Regards, John.:)

Fair enough, John, and appreciate you not taking my tactless remark personally. :-)

 

The tech. details mentions Blends, do I take that to mean it's a digital blend of more than one exposure? If so, I might have made a much brighter frame to expose the darkest area around the right-hand trees blended with a dark frame just as you have with nicely detailed skies. It's generally much easier to tone down in post-processing than to crank up the brightness (an issue of S/N ratio), so having a brighter image to work with allows more margin, and colors become more convincing.

 

The distant mountain obscured by what appears to be early morning fog is a bit of a problem; the details are difficult to extract, and one risks ending up with a patch of near solid color which can detract from the overall image. If you can imagine this as it stands but without the mountain, you might agree it'd be a better balanced picture at least with regards to colors.

 

The abrupt cutoff of of the treetops on either side also gives me the feeling of wanting to see more. Was this shot using the kit lens? The perspective appears to be around 30mm on an 18-70 span.

This is not the blended image. I will attach the blend for your comparison. I have been a little obsessed with this image and didn't care for my blend attempts.

 

Here I went back to the original NEF image reopened it in capture using daylight wb adjusted to 5500 temp. Then in photoshop selected the sky, made a layer mask and painted the darker, more colorful sky back in. You are right about the mountains as I have lost all detail in them several times and had to restart .

 

As far as the lens this was shot with it was either my 18-35 or a straight 24mm, I would need to check the EXIF data to make sure, but your estimate is pretty close. I didn't buy the kit lens because the lens from my F-100 still work on the D-70. Oh yeah, the tree tops; I see what you mean but don't know what to do except try to avoid cutting them off next time. I have to ponder that one a bit for this location (trees are very tall on the river bank) Finally tactless is diametrically opposed to the name Michael Chang though synonomous with John Rhodebeck. I truly appreciate all your suggestions.

I did mean to say that your sunrise shot really is not unexciting. I like the fog and reflections (though they could be a might stronger), but you do have more of that great light on the trees that my photo is lacking. Thanks again. John

John, my reaction to your attachment is that it has a lot more pop, everything including the trees to the right show more detail, and the colors are preferred over your original post (more realistic). I think that'd make a great picture if you can eliminate the glow around the forward rock and tree line against the sky.

 

There's perhaps the issue of image size influencing ones perception - I can see your attachment will look great with an even larger view, as opposed to the original post, compromised somewhat to accommodate the frame.

 

By the way, have you ever considered stitching multiple images? Doing so in this instance might benefit the obscured mountain allowing better selective control.

is this what you r after?

Michael, the problem with the original post is not so much the glow around the rock (that can be adjusted and eliminated) , but the slight mismatch of the tree branches resulting from the two separate exposures. I think I will take another shot at blends, but maybe use the raw file twice adjusting one lighter and one darker so that the tree branches will line up.

 

Pitman, you are definitely on the right track and hopefully you can tell me what you did so I can learn and work on the original. Your solution must be better than mine because you had less file information to work with and came up with a better result.

 

Thanks Michael and Pitman. John

Ok, 1st use shadow and highlight from PS CS just to lift the shadow, not too much as you can tell with a halo at the transition from dark to bright. Do this on a copied layer.

Then very roughly selected the trees only(feather the selection) and use a brightness/contrast ADJL(adjustment layer) to lift it more with better control. if u notice brightening to the sky then you can use black brush to paint in the ADJL to remove the over selection.

Then with a large brush set with 10% Opacity, paint the rock/water onto the adjustment layer in one mouse click to slowly lift that area, if not enough then repeat, this will increase the brightness/contrast effect 10% at a time.

Then create a new blank layer and merge all (except the AJDL) into it (alt + Merge Visible) this will give the complete result in one layer and have the rest in case you need to go back to them.

Then on that new layer use dodge & burn on the rocks/water to increase there contrast to give that extra `light` Do some on the tree if nessersery.

With all these layers, you can reduce the opacity so that the original pic and blend back in anytime you want. Also helpful to compare with old.

Then add an `S` curve and or Hue/Sat ADJL to finish. The colours maybe too strong

Hope this helps. :0)

Thanks Pitman. It took a lot of time to put those steps together and I will try it tonight on the original image. :)

It's always interesting to learn the workflow of others. Thanks also, Pitman.

Okay here is my first pass at your method Pitman. I tried but failed at the merge layers. I'll have to research how to do that one a bit and as a result I think my effort is darker than yours and I think my rocks are a touch blue, but a lot better than before. I'm posting as an attachment here and will also put it to the que for comparison numbers. Thanks.

Good job keep at it, pratise make perfect :0)
Micheal is right about noise, thats why I didnt brighten it too much, but how much you brighten is personal taste. If you burn the shadows more in the water, rocks and trees, then they will pop more.... for me anyway. :0)
aslo try to avoid the halo around the trees in the background mountain. :0)

Yeah, I can see the noise. i was terming it "muddy" to myself. This puts me a whole lot close on a photo I was going to give up on. Thanks.

Your welcome. :0)
I just re read above, to me your pic seems brighter rather then darker.

Sorry, I should be more specific. My trees seem darker than yours. Yours really seemed to pop. Mine don't, but if you weigh the river and rocks brightness too, you are obviously right. Thanks again.